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Voice processing for the center channel.
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Voice processing for the center channel.

Please, tell me, what techniques are used when it is necessary to "mix" speech for multichannel sound? I have a 7.1 soundtrack and an announcer for the center channel. What activities need to be done to make the voice of the announcer sound immersed in the general sound environment?
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Old 1 week ago
  #2
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
Please, tell me, what techniques are used when it is necessary to "mix" speech for multichannel sound? I have a 7.1 soundtrack and an announcer for the center channel. What activities need to be done to make the voice of the announcer sound immersed in the general sound environment?
My DAW Reaper
There are many factors that would determine what, if anything you might do.
I'm not sure what "announcer" specifically is in your example. If It's is a voice over then you might just put it in the centre channel and leave it at that. Your delivery specs may give you some clarity on that.
If you want some room on it then a multichannel reverb would do the trick.
You could diverge the signal into other channels but I would advise against that as it can cause fold down issues.
If it's a film or drama then you might approach it a different way.
Some more info and context would be helpful.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret ➡️
There are many factors that would determine what, if anything you might do.
I'm not sure what "announcer" specifically is in your example. If It's is a voice over then you might just put it in the centre channel and leave it at that. Your delivery specs may give you some clarity on that.
If you want some room on it then a multichannel reverb would do the trick.
You could diverge the signal into other channels but I would advise against that as it can cause fold down issues.
If it's a film or drama then you might approach it a different way.
Some more info and context would be helpful.
Yes, you are certainly right. My task is only to make the voice of the announcer more "immersed". I found that the voice bulges out a lot, while in most films it is more organically integrated into the overall sound picture. So the question for me is what effects to apply? Reverb, compression, + EQ, how would you solve this problem?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
Yes, you are certainly right. My task is only to make the voice of the announcer more "immersed". I found that the voice bulges out a lot, while in most films it is more organically integrated into the overall sound picture.
But most films probably don't have an "announcer" per se, only dialog. So again it would be good to know more about what you're working on specifically. If it's an "announcer" at a sports event as an effect that's one thing, if it's an "announcer" functioning as a "narrator" throughout that's a different thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
So the question for me is what effects to apply? Reverb, compression, + EQ, how would you solve this problem?
Some of the above / all of the above... it depends. There is no generic answer to the question.

Is your main work in post or music?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
But most films probably don't have an "announcer" per se, only dialog. So again it would be good to know more about what you're working on specifically. If it's an "announcer" at a sports event as an effect that's one thing, if it's an "announcer" functioning as a "narrator" throughout that's a different thing.



Some of the above / all of the above... it depends. There is no generic answer to the question.

Is your main work in post or music?
Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it. The film is a narrator's story accompanied by classical music. Therefore, it is important for me that the voice would be as immersed as possible in the general atmosphere. I tried to distance the voice, apply a reverb effect, change frequencies, but so far I have not been able to make the voice "mixed" with the overall sound picture.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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🎧 10 years
When I started out with 5.1 (mostly TV) it took a little time to wrap my brain around the fact that with the dialog coming out of the center only it sounds radically different from it coming out of the phantom center through Left/Right. So this could be a matter of just adapting your aesthetics to something that's new.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
When I started out with 5.1 (mostly TV) it took a little time to wrap my brain around the fact that with the dialog coming out of the center only it sounds radically different from it coming out of the phantom center through Left/Right. So this could be a matter of just adapting your aesthetics to something that's new.
I agree with you. However, in films I hear that the speech in the center channel is processed by the equalizer and therefore the voice is more organically mixed with the soundtrack.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
I agree with you. However, in films I hear that the speech in the center channel is processed by the equalizer and therefore the voice is more organically mixed with the soundtrack.
Of course, but as we said there's a difference between narration and regular dialog. If it's just narration recorded in a booth plus music then I would imagine it'll always sound a bit 'disjointed', and I think that might be fine, unless you want it to sound like the narrator is literally in the same space as the music (which I would find odd).
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
Of course, but as we said there's a difference between narration and regular dialog. If it's just narration recorded in a booth plus music then I would imagine it'll always sound a bit 'disjointed', and I think that might be fine, unless you want it to sound like the narrator is literally in the same space as the music (which I would find odd).
Well, I will put the question differently, how can you change the position of the narrator (actor) in the central channel? Further, closer.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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🎧 10 years
EQ. Reverb. Compression or not compression. Room Tone.... and so on.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
EQ. Reverb. Compression or not compression. Room Tone.... and so on.
I would like to receive specific instructions such as moving the distance of the voice to depth without echoing. simulating 3 - 5 meters distance deep .
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
Well, I will put the question differently, how can you change the position of the narrator (actor) in the central channel? Further, closer.
If the narrator was recorded close mic'd on something like a u87 then you are really going to struggle to sit it back in the mix.
But compression, fader rides, multiband compression, eq, dynamic eq, deesser, and some room verb may help.
The other important thing is make sure you have music coming out of the centre speaker and not running a phantom centre. This will help bed the voice in because if the voice is the only thing coming out of the centre speaker that may be causing the disembodied sound of it.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret ➡️
If the narrator was recorded close mic'd on something like a u87 then you are really going to struggle to sit it back in the mix.
But compression, fader rides, multiband compression, eq, dynamic eq, deesser, and some room verb may help.
The other important thing is make sure you have music coming out of the centre speaker and not running a phantom centre. This will help bed the voice in because if the voice is the only thing coming out of the centre speaker that may be causing the disembodied sound of it.
It would be ideal if you post a ripper project where the voice is distant by five meters.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It might be sticking out due to very "spiked" dynamics, due to the low end being to "ploppy" on P and B, due to sibilance... there is so much and this is what mixing is about.
Should you be able to post a snippet, I am sure people could give more specific feedback.

Last edited by Andrew Mottl; 1 week ago at 09:22 PM.. Reason: spike-y was censored?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
It would be ideal if you post a ripper project where the voice is distant by five meters.
'5m distance' ain't enough context: listening to a narrator speaking in a living room vs an empty cathedral vs outdoors etc. makes a huge difference...
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
'5m distance' ain't enough context: listening to a narrator speaking in a living room vs an empty cathedral vs outdoors etc. makes a huge difference...
I understand what you mean. There are many options for the environment, from a forest, to a large concert hall or a small office. However, the question now is how to simply move the voice five meters away. Imagine that five meters to a person who speaks in a room without very pronounced reverberation and stands at a distance of five meters from you. You can record your voice into a large diaphragm microphone and try to simulate distance. 2 meters then five meters, and that it would be clearly audible. I have seen this in some films - the effect of space was very noticeable, but I did not hear any serious reverberation. I repeat, it was only in the center channel without the front channels engaging. This post discusses closer / farther speech positioning technology.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
I understand what you mean. There are many options for the environment, from a forest, to a large concert hall or a small office. However, the question now is how to simply move the voice five meters away. Imagine that five meters to a person who speaks in a room without very pronounced reverberation and stands at a distance of five meters from you. You can record your voice into a large diaphragm microphone and try to simulate distance. 2 meters then five meters, and that it would be clearly audible. I have seen this in some films - the effect of space was very noticeable, but I did not hear any serious reverberation. I repeat, it was only in the center channel without the front channels engaging. This post discusses closer / farther speech positioning technology.
well, you do anything which a bit of air between the narrator and the mic would normally do:

softening of transients, hf absorption/damping, adding some early reflections and a bit of room sound/ambience/'reverb' - i do this quite regularly on close mics used for recording of classical music.

to create a sense of space (and ideally depth), imo it's (way) better to use mono in/stereo (or surround) out efx patches and to route/pan/mix them accordingly, meaning not to downmix to mono/center: there's a difference between (largely uncorrelated) signals becoming more 'mono-ish' at some distance and a mono mix of dry/wet signals...
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiccreator ➡️
I understand what you mean. There are many options for the environment, from a forest, to a large concert hall or a small office. However, the question now is how to simply move the voice five meters away. Imagine that five meters to a person who speaks in a room without very pronounced reverberation and stands at a distance of five meters from you. You can record your voice into a large diaphragm microphone and try to simulate distance. 2 meters then five meters, and that it would be clearly audible. I have seen this in some films - the effect of space was very noticeable, but I did not hear any serious reverberation. I repeat, it was only in the center channel without the front channels engaging. This post discusses closer / farther speech positioning technology.
So let's think about what you hear as someone backs further away from you in a not very reverberant space?
1. Volume is lower
2. High end begins to roll off
3. Low end begins to roll off
4. You begin to hear more early reflections. Rather than reverb. Try putting up a verb that has the ability to adjust the early reflections seperate to the reverb.
Turn the reverb section off and have a listen to just the early reflections and adjust to taste.
The other thing is to make sure the reverb setting you choose is not too large. 250ms-500ms is usually a regular room size.
Add back in the verb to taste.
Make this reverb mono to start and play it in the centre channel with the voice.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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🎧 10 years
You're asking strangers to teach you how to mix on a forum. Adjustment of expectations might be necessary.

Garret gave you a very good intro to the basics above.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Wizzomixer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
This plug-in may be of interest.
https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/
Are you mixing on a calibrated monitoring system? You really need to to be able to balance things properly in surround.
I will say though that in all the years I have been recording and mixing with narration, the narrator is always dominant with all other audio being subservient to it.
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