thanks... just trying to be helpful.

.................and it is much appreciated!!

I discover this place, what an amazing thread.
Thanks a lot Georgia for all these advices.

you're welcome.

Here's something asked on Linked-in that I answered.

- Should I mix my doc in a calibrated x-curve room?...

Yes. if you are going to mix for theatrical you really need to mix in a calibrated facility so that it sounds the same in the theatre. The room you mix in needs to be calibrated at -20 dBFS = 85db with the film curve ( x-curve) equalization. When mixing any film for theatrical playback you are mixing to "taste" not to a "spec". If you mix in an un-calibrated room you are asking for a number of issue to hit your film. level of playback, SFX issues, frequency response, sound positioning, dialogue getting buried, decoding issues, it can get bad. Heck, even if you do everything by the book, it can still be a problem, but much less so.

There are a lot of great posts on this site about room calibration. Here's a quick overview.

I advice anyone who wants their film to LOOK good, to make sure it SOUNDS good. The sound for a film, whether doc or drama, will raise the perceived quality or destroy the perceived quality of the picture. Sound is 51% of the movie going experience. DO NOT CUT CORNERS on the mix.

If you are forced to mix in a room that is not a calibrated Dub stage. ( and again DON"T DO THIS! )... set up the room the best you can. If you are dealing with near field monitoring, then set the speakers to 82 DB and not 85 db. calibrate appropriately with pink noise, then insert the X-curve ( film curve ) into the MONITOR CHAIN. DO NOT insert it into the record chain. Once you are monitoring through the equalized speakers, re-calibrate all speakers to 82 db again. note the subwoofer used for the LFE material should be calibrated at +10 above as the mix LFE channel needs to be printed at -10 so it in the right place in volume at the theater. ( the theater b-chain has the subs calibrated at +10db higher than the main channels ) Also, placement of speakers is critical. There is the distance from the mix position, the angle, whether you are mixing with microperf between you and the speakers ( like in the theater ), placement of the sub. making sure everything in IN PHASE, The number of surround speakers / channel you are monitoring through.

if you haven't mixed a film before don't try this at home folks, get a trained pro...

Here's another pice of trivia... The best sound position in a movie theater is 2/3 back dead center from the screen. That's where most of the big sound houses place their mixing boards and work positions, hence that's where you'll get the best sound in the theater.

In theory, the theaters are setup and calibrated the same as the dub-stages. In real life not all theaters maintain proper calibration.

dig deeper on this site to find out more.

cheers
geo

A question was posted about OMF issues. So here's a bit about importing audio from OMF from editing systems.

FCP prefers AIF even though it can function fine with WAV. If you export audio as audio files in FCP you an only export AIF files. If you use OMF to export audio from FCP you'll get an OMF container with OMF file formated audio files within the container. The Open Media Exchange format should maintain the clip data within the OMF data file. When you import the audio in Protools you can select AIF or WAV files.

Adobe Premier outputs AIF files as part of its OMF export, but when you import into PROTOOLS you can specify .WAV files and the import will also perform the conversion.

AVID lets you select AIF or WAV as part of the export options.

So you may need to deal with AIF files depending on the picture editorial platform.

If you received an OMF container and you imported the audio into protools using IMPORT SESSION DATA, protools should have created a set of individual and consecutively numbered OMF files in the Audio Folder within the session folder with the name of your session, if you used COPY FROM SOURCE MEDIA.

If you received an OMF container and you imported the audio into protools using IMPORT SESSION DATA, protools should have created a set of files with the ACTUAL NAMES OF THE REGIONS in the Audio Folder within the session folder if you used CONSOLIDATE FROM SOURCE MEDIA.

If you received an OMF container and you imported the audio into protools using IMPORT SESSION DATA, protools should have created a set of files with the ACTUAL NAMES OF THE REGIONS in the Audio Folder within the session folder if you used FORCE TO TARGET SESSION FORMAT.

If you used LINK TO SOURCE MEDIA the protools session is looking at the original data inside the OMF container.


So it all depends on how you brought the audio into your protools session.

in the example i've added to this post,
the YELLOW files were imported using FORCE TO TARGET SESSION FORMAT.
the GREEN files were imported using CONSOLIDATE FROM SOURCE MEDIA.
the ORANGE files were imported using COPY FROM SOURCE MEDIA.
the TEST.OMF container file at the bottom is referenced by the session when using LINK TO SOURCE MEDIA.

I move audio all the time between FCP AVID and PROTOOLS. I use OMF almost exclusively... But my team and I are doing both the picture editorial and the sound editorial most of the time so we can control all aspects of the post production. I get all the clip data including levels, cross fades and volume without any significant issues. I don't get pans correctly. The rest of what I need I get quite well with OMF or AUTOMATIC DUCK

Here's a couple cool link that talks about XML data within FCP in depth...

What is XML

Jos

I like automatic duck way better for stuff than OMF. OMF is very very strong and very very stupid, so it takes very little to screw it up. FCP has OMF creation as a built in function with basically zero options... so you get what you get. BUT, you can muck with that container file's import into protools as discussed in the previous post. So you do have a bit of control.

There is a product from GALLERY called XML PRO for mac .. I haven't used it, but it seems to offer a much more solid and deeper control of audio transfer than using OMF. I'm thinking of buying it , just to try it.

Assuming you have automatic Duck...
You can export audio from FCP
1. via FCP OMF
2. via AUTOMATIC DUCK AAF
3. via AUTOMATIC DUCK XML
4. via FCP AIF file bounce


Here's an example of a test I did.

The first pix: TIME LINE PIX, is an FCP time line and data about the test file.

https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...e-line-pix.gif

The 2nd pix: FILES CREATED, are the files that we're created by doing all of the above.

https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...es-created.gif

The 3rd: AUTOMATIC DUCK AAF file import to PT is a screenshot of the AAF import process I selected.

https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...-import-pt.gif

The 4th: PROTOOLS ACTUAL, is a screen shot of all the version placed in a PT session using the above options.

https://gearspace.com/board/attachme...ols-actual.gif


ALL THE Methods carry most of the data with the files, with the exception of PANS...

The bounced AIF files from FCp obviously don't carry any data...


Just for fun I exported FROM PROTOOLS and used AAF and then brought all the files back into protools to see what was lost. The AAF export/import recovered SOME of same data as the original files within protools maintained from FCP and/or Automatic Duck. But all LOST PAN and VOLUME data.

The 5th way to output audio material is not convenient for protools but just for fun I output the data from the FCP session and opened the FCP XML file to see what was in it.

Here's the dump from the file

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE xmeml>
<xmeml version="5">
<sequence id="Sequence 1 ">
<uuid>2CFA561E-B8F4-4FF4-A466-6A5B985FB170</uuid>
<updatebehavior>add</updatebehavior>
<name>Sequence 1</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<timecode>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<string>01:00:00:00</string>
<frame>86400</frame>
<source>source</source>
<displayformat>NDF</displayformat>
</timecode>
<in>-1</in>
<out>-1</out>
<media>
<video>
<format>
<samplecharacteristics>
<width>960</width>
<height>720</height>
<anamorphic>FALSE</anamorphic>
<pixelaspectratio>HD-(960x720)</pixelaspectratio>
<fielddominance>none</fielddominance>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<colordepth>24</colordepth>
<codec>
<name>Apple DV100 Compressor</name>
<appspecificdata>
<appname>Final Cut Pro</appname>
<appmanufacturer>Apple Inc.</appmanufacturer>
<appversion>7.0</appversion>
<data>
<qtcodec>
<codecname>Apple DV100 Compressor</codecname>
<codectypename>DVCPRO HD (720p60)</codectypename>
<codectypecode>dvhp</codectypecode>
<codecvendorcode>appl</codecvendorcode>
<spatialquality>1023</spatialquality>
<temporalquality>0</temporalquality>
<keyframerate>0</keyframerate>
<datarate>0</datarate>
</qtcodec>
</data>
</appspecificdata>
</codec>
</samplecharacteristics>
<appspecificdata>
<appname>Final Cut Pro</appname>
<appmanufacturer>Apple Inc.</appmanufacturer>
<appversion>7.0</appversion>
<data>
<fcpimageprocessing>
<useyuv>TRUE</useyuv>
<usesuperwhite>FALSE</usesuperwhite>
<rendermode>YUV8BPP</rendermode>
</fcpimageprocessing>
</data>
</appspecificdata>
</format>
<track>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 ">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>0</in>
<out>2849</out>
<start>0</start>
<end>2849</end>
<pixelaspectratio>HD-(960x720)</pixelaspectratio>
<anamorphic>FALSE</anamorphic>
<alphatype>none</alphatype>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
<shottake/>
<lognote/>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
<labels>
<label2/>
</labels>
<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010.mov</name>
<pathurl>file://localhost/Volumes/VIDEO%2020/GEORGIA%20HILTON%20REEL%20MATERIAL/CORPORATE%20GEL%202010.mov</pathurl>
<rate>
<timebase>24</timebase>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
</rate>
<duration>2849</duration>
<metadata>
<storage>QuickTime</storage>
<key>com.apple.finalcutstudio.media.uuid</key>
<size>36</size>
<type>UTF8</type>
<value>38D422DD-E0BB-4090-B24E-5A02B72737BC</value>
</metadata>
<timecode>
<rate>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<string>01:00:00:00</string>
<frame>86400</frame>
<displayformat>NDF</displayformat>
<source>source</source>
</timecode>
<media>
<video>
<duration>2849</duration>
<samplecharacteristics>
<width>960</width>
<height>720</height>
</samplecharacteristics>
</video>
<audio>
<samplecharacteristics>
<samplerate>48000</samplerate>
<depth>16</depth>
</samplecharacteristics>
<channelcount>2</channelcount>
</audio>
</media>
</file>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 </linkclipref>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 3</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 4</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<fielddominance>none</fielddominance>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>00F5779A-E94F-48A9-AE23-D23B98746661</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
</track>
</video>
<audio>
<format>
<samplecharacteristics>
<depth>16</depth>
<samplerate>48000</samplerate>
</samplecharacteristics>
</format>
<outputs>
<group>
<index>1</index>
<numchannels>2</numchannels>
<downmix>0</downmix>
<channel>
<index>1</index>
</channel>
<channel>
<index>2</index>
</channel>
</group>
<group>
<index>2</index>
<numchannels>2</numchannels>
<downmix>0</downmix>
<channel>
<index>3</index>
</channel>
<channel>
<index>4</index>
</channel>
</group>
<group>
<index>3</index>
<numchannels>2</numchannels>
<downmix>0</downmix>
<channel>
<index>5</index>
</channel>
<channel>
<index>6</index>
</channel>
</group>
</outputs>
<in>-1</in>
<out>-1</out>
<track>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 3">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>0</in>
<out>2410</out>
<start>0</start>
<end>-1</end>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
<shottake/>
<lognote/>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
<labels>
<label2/>
</labels>
<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2"/>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<keyframe>
<when>2166.43</when>
<value>1.25893</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2208.21</when>
<value>0.112202</value>
</keyframe>
<interpolation>
<name>FCPCurve</name>
</interpolation>
<value>0.112202</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>0</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 </linkclipref>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 3</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 4</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>A13189BF-A436-48CC-9FE2-DD40BEACDA5B</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<transitionitem>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<start>2354</start>
<end>2410</end>
<alignment>center</alignment>
<effect>
<name>Cross Fade (+3dB)</name>
<effectid>KGAudioTransCrossFade3dB</effectid>
<effecttype>transition</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
</effect>
</transitionitem>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 5">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>2354</in>
<out>2849</out>
<start>-1</start>
<end>2849</end>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
<shottake/>
<lognote/>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
<labels>
<label2/>
</labels>
<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2"/>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<keyframe>
<when>2449.29</when>
<value>1</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2491.71</when>
<value>0.0251189</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2610.64</when>
<value>0.0251189</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2620.93</when>
<value>0.891251</value>
</keyframe>
<interpolation>
<name>FCPCurve</name>
</interpolation>
<value>0.891251</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>-1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 5</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>3</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 6</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>3</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>44B0A883-9BFE-4E29-BACD-3A630960CE9C</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
<outputchannelindex>1</outputchannelindex>
</track>
<track>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 4">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>0</in>
<out>2410</out>
<start>0</start>
<end>-1</end>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
<shottake/>
<lognote/>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
<labels>
<label2/>
</labels>
<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2"/>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<keyframe>
<when>2166.43</when>
<value>1.25893</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2208.21</when>
<value>0.112202</value>
</keyframe>
<interpolation>
<name>FCPCurve</name>
</interpolation>
<value>0.112202</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>-0</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 </linkclipref>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 3</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 4</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>41DF6C31-3285-409E-97A7-B8C4CB60563D</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<transitionitem>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<start>2354</start>
<end>2410</end>
<alignment>center</alignment>
<effect>
<name>Cross Fade (+3dB)</name>
<effectid>KGAudioTransCrossFade3dB</effectid>
<effecttype>transition</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
</effect>
</transitionitem>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 6">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>2354</in>
<out>2849</out>
<start>-1</start>
<end>2849</end>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
<shottake/>
<lognote/>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
<labels>
<label2/>
</labels>
<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2"/>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<keyframe>
<when>2449.29</when>
<value>1</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2491.71</when>
<value>0.0251189</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2610.64</when>
<value>0.0251189</value>
</keyframe>
<keyframe>
<when>2620.93</when>
<value>0.891251</value>
</keyframe>
<interpolation>
<name>FCPCurve</name>
</interpolation>
<value>0.891251</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 5</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>3</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 6</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>3</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>B8F90817-B963-448C-A929-B63FAF583059</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
<outputchannelindex>2</outputchannelindex>
</track>
<track>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
<outputchannelindex>3</outputchannelindex>
</track>
<track>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
<outputchannelindex>4</outputchannelindex>
</track>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<value>1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
</audio>
</media>
<ismasterclip>FALSE</ismasterclip>
</sequence>
<bin>
<name>Master Clips</name>
<children>
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<uuid>DC7AE124-DFBF-46A9-939D-523F11D983F4</uuid>
<updatebehavior>add</updatebehavior>
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
</rate>
<in>-1</in>
<out>-1</out>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<ismasterclip>TRUE</ismasterclip>
<logginginfo>
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<labels>
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<timebase>24</timebase>
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<in>0</in>
<out>2849</out>
<start>0</start>
<end>2849</end>
<pixelaspectratio>HD-(960x720)</pixelaspectratio>
<anamorphic>FALSE</anamorphic>
<alphatype>none</alphatype>
<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
<scene/>
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<good>FALSE</good>
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<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
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<fielddominance>none</fielddominance>
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<audio>
<in>-1</in>
<out>-1</out>
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<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 8">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
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<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
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<masterclipid>CORPORATE GEL 2010 1</masterclipid>
<logginginfo>
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<comments>
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<mastercomment3/>
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</comments>
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<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<value>1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>-1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 7</linkclipref>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
</link>
<link>
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<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
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<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
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<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 9</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>54752898-3651-4855-AEEF-8CAE8510AC65</uuid>
</itemhistory>
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<locked>FALSE</locked>
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<track>
<clipitem id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 9">
<name>CORPORATE GEL 2010</name>
<duration>2849</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>24</timebase>
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<logginginfo>
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<good>FALSE</good>
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<labels>
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<comments>
<mastercomment1/>
<mastercomment2/>
<mastercomment3/>
<mastercomment4/>
</comments>
<file id="CORPORATE GEL 2010 2"/>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Levels</name>
<effectid>audiolevels</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiolevels</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiolevels</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Level</name>
<parameterid>level</parameterid>
<valuemin>0</valuemin>
<valuemax>3.98109</valuemax>
<value>1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<filter>
<effect>
<name>Audio Pan</name>
<effectid>audiopan</effectid>
<effectcategory>audiopan</effectcategory>
<effecttype>audiopan</effecttype>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<parameter>
<name>Pan</name>
<parameterid>pan</parameterid>
<valuemin>-1</valuemin>
<valuemax>1</valuemax>
<value>1</value>
</parameter>
</effect>
</filter>
<sourcetrack>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
</sourcetrack>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 7</linkclipref>
<mediatype>video</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 8</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>1</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<link>
<linkclipref>CORPORATE GEL 2010 9</linkclipref>
<mediatype>audio</mediatype>
<trackindex>2</trackindex>
<clipindex>1</clipindex>
<groupindex>1</groupindex>
</link>
<itemhistory>
<uuid>5C319B82-50E3-482B-B411-11F948247B29</uuid>
</itemhistory>
</clipitem>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<locked>FALSE</locked>
</track>
</audio>
</media>
</clip>
</children>
</bin>
</xmeml>



In conclusion I would utilize AUTOMATIC DUCK or OMF without too much worry for most projects. You may want to take a more indept look at tool selection depending on what you are working on.

Hope this helped!

cheers
geo

[QUOTE=georgia;7941264]A question was posted about OMF issues. So here's a bit about importing audio from OMF from editing systems....

If you received an OMF container and you imported the audio into protools using IMPORT SESSION DATA, protools should have created a set of individual and consecutively numbered OMF files in the Audio Folder within the session folder with the name of your session, if you used COPY FROM SOURCE MEDIA.

If you received an OMF container and you imported the audio into protools using IMPORT SESSION DATA, protools should have created a set of files with the ACTUAL NAMES OF THE REGIONS in the Audio Folder within the session folder if you used CONSOLIDATE FROM SOURCE MEDIA....
_____________________
Hi Georgia, What version of PT does this relate to? Im on PT9.0.3 and Copy and Consolidate both bring the source files in with ACUTAL NAMES. It is my understanding that COPY brings the files in AS IN AND IN THEIR ENTIRETY. CONSOLIDATE brings the files in AS IN allows you to control handle size.

Might be a 9 thing?

just noticed in your image your on PT10. I think thats a new feature to 10.

I answered a question this morning for one of our amazing sound guys... I thought I'd share a version here for reference... It's very basic but it might help. I've added some links about Video Encoding, Transcoding and CODECs

CODEC SELECTION for your project.

There are three basic types of CODECS ( Coder - Decoder ) in use by the majority of applications to create compressed video streams. Note: I’m making this very basic...

There are two types of Compression: Lossy and Lossless.

Lossless means that when uncompressed the data will be exactly the same as the data prior to compression.
Lossy means that when you decompress the material it will be different than before initially compressed. Almost all of the Video CODEC system used in our sound and picture editorial world use LOSSY compression techniques.

Three CODEC methods P-Frame, B-Frame and I-Frame

The first, P-frame, basically looks at the previous frame and the current frame and tries to reference as much duplicated data as possible. If the background of the previous frame and current frame are the same and only , let’s say a person waving, in the foreground changes, the data in the current frame is mostly the same as the previous frame so the data is reused, reducing the data requires and thus the video stream data rate. This obviously has a lot to do with the actual image. A lot of changes , frame to frame, will not compress as well as a shot of something that is not changing. The Problem with this is that it requires a LOT of CPU time to manage and re-construct the frames. Additionally, the final file size will depend on the bits per second and bits per frame.

The Second, B-Frame uses the same method as P-frames, but this method but looks backwards a frame and forward a frame.

The third, I-frame, is a self contained frame. I-frame codecs compiles each frame by itself. This version of compression simply compressed the data within a single frame to the best of it’s ability. It doesn’t compress quite as well , creating a higher data rate, but used less CPU to do it.

Also note that, Image scaling can be involved in compressing during encoding. If image scaling is employed, it will again require more CPU to decode.

How Does a CODEC affect my computer?

Depending on the software application you are running, the speed of your IO and your CPU speed, and the ability to offload the decoding to a different processor (Video card, or even another computer)... will affect how your computer handles CODEC decoding in real time.

So here are some tips on choosing video codecs to play well with Pro Tools.

I prefer I-Frame codecs like Motion JPEG, DV, ProRes, I try to avoid P-Frame and B-Frame codecs like H264 and MPEG4 for Protools. I prefer to use a third-party video card, such as Black Magic Intensity Pro or the like to offload work from my MacPro. I utilize SYNC CHECK to assure that my video and audio are, in fact, in sync while editing.
I utilize multiple disks, keeping my video and audio on separate disks and keeping them OFF the system disk. I use multiple IO paths for these disks.

Example Video types

· H.264 can use any of the above types of Codec.

· Motion JPEG uses P-Frame

· MEPG4 utilizes any of the above

· APPLE ProRes has 444, 422 it has HQ and “standard” and it as the ability to do low res reference files as well. It uses. ProRes uses an Intermediate CODEC using I-FRAME only.

· MXF is NOT a compression method, but a CONTAINER file used as an Open file format ( Media eXchange Format ). It used the “native” compression the file was transcoded (encoded) with orginally and any metadata.


Types of System configurations for Video playback


· Firewire video device such as Canopus, or MOJO

· Laptop with second output for image display

· MacPro or PC tower with 2nd video card for image display

· Third party or other high end Video card such as BLACKMAGIC

· 2nd computer running VVTR , Satellite or other synchronization
software two lock two or more computers together

· High end hardware based video servers Pyxis, V-Cube, DoReMe.

Any of these will work but it depends on a lot of variables. I’ve actually run all of the above except Pyxis or V-cube with no problem and lots of problems.... The variables are numerous and important to making each work successfully. As long as the required data rate does not exceed the available bandwidth of your systems IO path ( this includes disk seek and read time, Caching methods on the disk, disk data management, disk IO speed, storage interface speed, number of disks on the path, workload and path to the CPU limits, codec used, data rate of the data being utilized, amount of data being requested by the application, how the application manages the data and the output data.

If you are doing all of this internally on one system, on one disk, and your disk is fragmented, and you are running a high data rate, low compression, or a highly compressed but CPU intensive codec, and the application requires are large and you are running multiple streams, you’re going to have lots of problems like drift, skipping, lockups, dropouts, etc.

If you can begin to remove the bottlenecks you start getting better performance. Use multiple disks with faster seek and latency times, use IO paths with higher bandwidth, Keep the disks defragmented, spread the drives around multiple IO pipes, get a faster CPU, get an outboard video processing card that takes the compression work off the CPU, you will achieve better performance and less problems allowing you to have higher data rates and less compression in your files or higher compression rates for smaller files. Either way, the platform configuration is important, I would say , more so than the compression type.

If you go the next step and start using multiple systems like VVTR or SATELLITE syncing a second COMPUTER or, V-CUDE, DOREME, which for the sake of this discussion utilizes a second Compute to offload work, you will again be simply reducing the overall bandwidth and processing on your main editorial system ( for sound ), and allowing the work load to be shared, making your DAW work less, delivering more responsive operation.

Ok. The bottom line... YOU MUST ALWAYS ASSURE THERE IS NO OFFSET BETWEEN SOUND AND PICTURE.

It really doesn’t matter what you use. There will always be some amount of offset in a system, unless you are sitting on a Still frame while editing. The real question is HOW MUCH offset is too much. Today’s Flatscreen Monitors inject offset, a projector injects offset, distance to the screen injects offset, all video cards inject offset, Sync systems inject offset.
Sometimes its less than a couple milliseconds sometimes its entire frames. So, no matter how you edit and how you look at a picture during editorial, you need to be aware of the offset and if necessary fix it.

I believe that all applications work just fine , but every system is different. I’ve editing on FCP, AVID, ADOBE, PROTOOLS, MOTU, LOGIC... They all seems just fine. BUT, every system configuration is different and it’s not the application that is of concern, it’s the underlying system configuration and video processing card that makes the difference.

Should I but the best system for my daily work?

There is no reason to by a top-of-the-line video card, unless you need it. If your system works and you can deliver to your client without pulling your hair out during editing, then you have a balanced and solid system. Keep it. But if you need more, bigger, best, then buy more, bigger, best. I’m a firm believer in buying what you need... Not what you want.

Different system configurations will require different codecs.

The best thing to do is to review the delivery to your client, and FROM your client to your editing system, and assure your systems configuration meets the requirements for adequate playback. Again, the Codec selection should be based on the “big-Picture” of your delivery process and the system configuration ( hardware, operating system, number of systems, IO capability, sync equipment, application set, video cards, and video monitoring selection you are delivering on.

Here are some links on how a VIDEO CODEC works

BASIC OVERVIEW
Video codec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VIDEO TRANSCODING
Transcoding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DivX
DivX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MPEG-4 & H.264
H.264/MPEG-4 AVC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ProRes
ProRes 422 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DIGITAL VIDEO TRANSCODING Paper
http://nthur.lib.nthu.edu.tw/bitstre...0144010017.pdf

DNxHD White Paper
http://www.avid.com/static/resources...ents/DNxHD.pdf

AVID Editing & Protools Interoperability White Paper
http://www.avid.com/static/resources...roTools_WP.pdf

WORKING WITH VIDEO (PROTOOLS)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan0...ptworkshop.htm

OVERVIEW OF INTER / INTRA FRAME
http://www.serialdigital.com/2006/03...vs-interframe/

CODING EFFICIENCY WHITE PAPER
http://www.johnvillasenor.com/ipl/pu...comparison.pdf

WHITE PAPER ON INTRA FRAME VIDEO RUNNING ON INTER FRAME HARDWARE
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...EUuQxzuC18wsxw

MPEG HOME PAGE
http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/


hope this helps.

cheers
geo

Cmd+Option+shift TOOLS gets you some data via the INTERNAL TOOLS option in the TOOLS window. These are normally not available. its not going to help you in this issue, but there are ways to utilize the data created to troubleshoot session problems.

FCP 7 uses a binary file in which it maintains its database to manage connections between the files and sequences in your session and the actual physical files. Note: Databases can be flat file(s), tables, multiple files, single files, DBMS, Relational, or just plan old flat files. It also contains timecode data, clip in and out points, nesting data and other automation data.

The FCP database is a basically a non-relational binary flat file based on a data set within the FCP session file. It is the data sets FCP uses to keep the links connected. This data can get corrupted and if it does, most of the time you can simply overwrite the bad data by re-linking your files, or if this doesn't work, you can create a new session file using media management, open it and deal with any left over issues manually.

The Final Cut Server database engine has been incorporated into FCP X to provide a better database media management tool set than FCP 7's database within it's binary session file.

If you use these internal tools, you'll need to setup the tracking data before it starts to log some of the information.

cheers
geo

Geo,

Just wanted to point out that this is a great thread! Much appreciated!

I'm a new member, and I can learn things from here that I was never taught at my college. (Columbia College)

Knowledge is power!

Thanks again!

you are absolutely welcome. When I find interesting tidbits for audio post, I drop them in here. I'm also posting on the VIDEO sub-forum here as well

Thanks for sharing this best topic. I am really very helpful to it. I am impressed by the quality of information on this website. There are a lot of good resources here.
I am sure I will visit this place again soon

Mixing on bass managed monitors is not a bad thing as long as you know what you are doing. The issues start to occur if you are dealing with LFE and bass managed material being the same and passing through different paths which could lead to possible phase issues.

cheers
geo

The Dolby Meta Data is already printed in to the final stream getting out of the Dolby encoder?
If i have 6 channels of audio (5+1) and i can create ac3 stream (using ac3 jack or similar tools) how can i embed the Meta Data in to the stream? Is there editor available?
or the video editing software (FCP/ADOBE) can do it?

you can use Apple's AC3 encoder or Dolby's AC3 encoders and add the metadata prior to encoding. I'm sure there are others as well. in DVD studio Pro, Compressor, Dolby Encoder and DTS's encoding tools, etc you can set up some or all of the Metadata you require.

cheers
geo

i missed the best part.. I am actually looking for any free/open source tools for this. Will i find anyone?

Sorry, I don't know of any freeware.

Its ok.. thanks..

I should prepare 5.1 stems to be layed-out in FCP. My friend has an FCP setup which i could use of.

thanks for your time..

I do not recommend any final audio work to be done in FCP... finish in a DAW system such as protools, logic, etc.

cheers
geo

Sorry if I was not clear... I am using REAPER and planning to prepare a sample 5.1 channel audio and take to my friend and he can pull the 6 channels in to the fcp and render it and test it... it should be ok, right?

A question arose on the video blog about the difference between theatrical and online delivery...

recording for online and for theatrical shouldn't make a difference... You record the best quality with the lowest noise floor as possible. The difference in audio for theatrical and online is in the mix. you are going to allow for much more dynamic range in a theatrical mix than you will in an online mix. You will also be dealing, most of the time, with stereo online and 5.1 in theatrical. A theatrical mix will have more Frequency bandwidth and will support more low end material than online. With an online mix, you have to consider that most of your client base will be dealing with laptops, Ipads, smart phones etc... so you have to mix for the speakers and playback system of the lowest common denominator. Additionally, in closing, you'll want to have a tight dynamic range in an online mix since most people are listening in a noisy environment and the subtleties and quiet passages a big theatrical mix simply disappear on a laptop in a coffee shop.

cheers
geo

IMHO - Tracks for a mix should be set up as:

1. 5.1 Master Stem
2. 5.1 M&E
3. 5.1 Dialogue Stem
4. 5.1 Music Stem

5. Dialogue tracks - split out by character and then additional tracks for specific requirements
6. SFX tracks -
7. Music tracks - ( I split these up into the following subsections )
a. 5.1 Music as mixed by the composer
b. Stems in the music for
1. Rhythm tracks and percussive instrumentation
2. general wash and background
3. lead instrumentation
8. Ambience and background tracks -
9. Foley tracks -


you can split out music to diegetic and nondiegetic (score and background vs music in the movie ( TV, radio, other that is actually part of the scene )


I would reduce down to the minimum number of tracks possible and provide RAW dialogue audio tracks should be included in the session just in case the re-recording engineer needs to make changes. If you Print Dialogue effects like a voice over a radio... always provide the clean unaffected audio as well.

the re-recording engineer will complete the 5.1 mixes, the 5.1 M&E, the LtRt, LoRo and any other specific deliverable versions as well.



cheers
geo

Georgia, this thread is very helpful. Can you recommend an online source or a book for theatrical mixing? Thank you!

Honestly... Just about everything you need to learn about the post audio and re-recording technical and business aspects you can find on Gearslutz. Some amazing people are on this site and happy to share information. Also, if you search gearslutz, there are multiple threads on valuable reading resources.

cheers
geo

Dialogue editing and prep for the dubstage.

As a re-recording engineer much prefer splits by character. When I do prep for my own or other's mix efforts I try to deliver a set of tracks for splits by character with about in the pocket levels with only the necessary EQ / dialogue cleaning and fill to match lines. Then a second set of tracks Hidden and turned off with no dialogue cleanup / no eq but edited. Under that I provide the RAW OMF / raw audio tracks sunk to picture as an edit tool on the dubstage if potentially required in the mix. So There are three sets of tracks from ready to mix, unaffected but edited ,and raw dialogue. I try to alway provide a end to end "ambience/background" track where needed as well for fill in case something has to change on the dubstage and for full loaded M&E.

it's a lot of work, but good dialogue is import for a good project, so its worth the work.

cheers
geo

Ciao Geo.
I know your ISDN post is a few years old. I have 3 ISDN boxes (Zephyrs) at the studio and now I'm beginning to get some friction with our ISDN provider who wants us off their BRI lines. I've checked with Telos, and scoured the net trying to find out which CSU unit could take a PRI (that our telco will offer) and convert it to a few BRI lines. Since most of our ADR work involves studios in many countries I'm very wary of messing with our lines. Any recommendations on how others are using 'newer' telco lines and converting them to our old school BRI lines? I'm in the US (Dallas, TX to be precise) I appreciate all your work. Thank you.

ISDN Basic Rate Interface providers in the states that I know of off hand: AT&T, CenturyLink, Verizon, Matrix Telcom. I'd just call these guys and tell them what you need to do. Their techs will help you configure a solution.


cheers
geo

I was asked about creating a "5.1" mix from stereo..
There are a number of specific ways to create a 5.1 mix from Stereo. But only 3 basic methods

Re-mix from the stems or original material
Fake the mix by utilizing multiple stereo track and routing, Eq, level, and dynamics
Unwrap/convert the stereo mix to a fake 5.1 field using an unwrap plugin


so...
Remix form original tracks.
Remix from stereo stems (Music, FX, Dialogue)
Utilize TC Electronics UNWRAP s/w on the System 6000 to create moderately ok 5.1 ( works well ) UnWrap TDM - Professional Stereo to 5.1 Up-Conversion | TC Electronic
Create multiple copies of the stereo mix in protools and modify EQ , Level, phase, and dynamics to route the various stereo tracks to a 5.1 field
I haven't tried this one personally but… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n67S8Dz-MbM
Utilize VST plugin in Protools to create a fake 5.1 from stereo ( works well ) V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter VST Plugin Suite

the downside of doing this is that you stand a good chance of screwing up the mix or creating a mix that sounds good in a solidly calibrated room, but could end up sounding rather bad when played back on any other system... look at this this way... you take a stereo mix, create a 5.1 version from stereo, encode to AC3, the mix gets played back at home on a TV or other stereo system and the decoder tries to make sense of the fake 5.1 and tries to play it back in stereo.... it might work.. it might not. I never recommend this, but if you do make sure you throughly test on various playback systems.

THe best stereo to 5.1 i've personally ever used is the TC ELECTRONICS Unwrap.

Cheers
Geo

Dolby ATMOS setup and info...

Dolby Atmos in the Cinema
Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guide
Dolby in the Cinema
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...Technology.pdf