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Basement Studio in Upstate New York
Old 7th September 2015
  #1
Basement Studio in Upstate New York

I built a small project studio in a spare bedroom, but now we're going to need that space so I have started finishing the basement.

See below for some photos of the framing and first steps of drywall.

A little background. When we were looking at the place, the basement is what drew me to the building to begin with. Then we found some water in the basement and determined that it was pouring in down the steps of the bulkhead door (one block was completely missing and all of the water was pouring in there).

We had the steps recast with concrete, dry locked that side of the basement, graded the soil at the perimter of the house and haven't had any water since (except a small puddle from the well area when one of the leaders fell off and the gutters were dumping all of the roof runoff directly into the well area).

So now it seems as though we have a dry (ish) basement to work with (60% humidity isn't horrible... right?)

Regardless, I'm not taking any chances, so I went with durock for the bottom layer of the outside of the wall (I will probably use durock for the bottom of the inner leaf as well, but that's a ways off).
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-hoffman-woods-layout.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-dad-framing-brother-doing-demo.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-wall-ready-put-up.-watch-out-guy.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-walls-up.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-rock.jpg  

Basement Studio in Upstate New York-more-rock.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-rock-.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-oops.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-walls-begin.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-walls-look-kind-like-walls.jpg  

Basement Studio in Upstate New York-electric.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-walls.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-more-walls.jpg  

Last edited by Grovestand; 7th September 2015 at 07:45 PM..
Old 7th September 2015
  #2
So my next step is to cut a bunch of small drywall panels to fit in between the joist and then go through and mortar and mud everything.

After that's done, I will affix some drywall to the subfloor.

Rod's book says to use styrofoam insulation as a spacer then use cleats to hold the drywall in place, but I would much rather screw the drywall directly to the subfloor, since it will be less labor intensive and cheaper.

I read on John L Sayers that it didn't matter how you affix them (fasteners vs cleats), since it is one leaf and all you're doing is adding mass, but if anyone cares to chime in on that, I would love to hear it!
Old 8th September 2015 | Show parent
  #3
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acmusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
keep the pix coming. Exciting to share your progress
Old 8th September 2015
  #4
I was going to put up 2x4 braces to hold the drywall into the space between the joists last night, but I only had an hour and I have the wrong kind of screws.
  • 1 - 5/8" Drywall screws won't really go through the 2x4"
  • 3" Decking screws go through the sub floor, through the hardwood floor, and into the unsuspecting feet of people walking on the floor above
  • 2" Decking screws... were not available.

On the plus side, I got my first voiceover project in the (old) new studio out the door last night, so things are happening (slowly).

Hoping to finish tracking and mix a track that I location recorded within the next month as well (Never doing that again, drum overheads + untreated/small spaces = failure).

I am debating putting up the door overtop of the 1 layer of drywall that I have up right now. I would like to get a sense of the isolation of the room once all of the air gaps are filled.

If I put up my (prehung slab) door, then decide to take it down and put up another layer of drywall with green glue, will it compromise the door's isolating capacity?

So many questions...

Sorry no pics today. Nothing much to see.
Old 8th September 2015
  #5
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🎧 15 years
It appears you did not read my book carefully enough.

What I said was that styrofoam was a good build-out material when there was an issue with nails from above penetrating the floor deck....

I never suggested that it was always required - and believe I even have details in the book without foam in place.

Having said that - there is no real problem screwing directly to the deck as long as penetration depth is not an issue......... but you need to get enough screw penetration to assure things hold together over the long haul - especially with a system like this where you know for a fact there is going to be a lot of long term movement of the structure you are attaching to.

Rod
Old 8th September 2015 | Show parent
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
It appears you did not read my book carefully enough.

What I said was that styrofoam was a good build-out material when there was an issue with nails from above penetrating the floor deck....

I never suggested that it was always required - and believe I even have details in the book without foam in place.

Having said that - there is no real problem screwing directly to the deck as long as penetration depth is not an issue......... but you need to get enough screw penetration to assure things hold together over the long haul - especially with a system like this where you know for a fact there is going to be a lot of long term movement of the structure you are attaching to.

Rod
Rod, thanks for the clarification. You're right, I read that section a while ago and was going from memory. I will try to get my facts straight. There is one place where nails might be an issue (pictured), but I'm hoping that they will just go right through the drywall

It's good to know that it won't hurt to hold the drywall up there using screws. That will make installing it all by myself much easier. I can always add cleats after the drywall is in place.

I will also use adhesive to attach the pieces of drywall to each other and also to the subfloor in addition to the screws.

Thanks!
Old 8th September 2015 | Show parent
  #7
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand ➑️
Rod, thanks for the clarification. You're right, I read that section a while ago and was going from memory. I will try to get my facts straight. There is one place where nails might be an issue (pictured), but I'm hoping that they will just go right through the drywall
That is not anything I would try - you stand a good chance of having nails back off when doing this - and then can cause some real problems with the floor above.......

Not knowing anything about how your existing building is constructed I can only offer general guidance - but typically when nails are located in between the floor joist this means there is either a hardwood floor or underlayment with some sort of floor finish above in that area......

In either case if you back off on those nails to any degree whatsoever you are inviting a lot of trouble to visit you.

Rod
Old 8th September 2015 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
That is not anything I would try - you stand a good chance of having nails back off when doing this - and then can cause some real problems with the floor above.......

Not knowing anything about how your existing building is constructed I can only offer general guidance - but typically when nails are located in between the floor joist this means there is either a hardwood floor or underlayment with some sort of floor finish above in that area......

In either case if you back off on those nails to any degree whatsoever you are inviting a lot of trouble to visit you.

Rod
Rod,

I should send you a check for all of the trouble you've saved me over the past few years.

If you release another edition of the book I will buy it.

Right you are, tomorrow I will borrow the work van and go buy 10 4x8 sheets of polystyrene.

The ceiling is 1 or 2 layers of OSB with hardwood floor on top of it.

I thought that the drywall would just bend the nails and pull the floor downward, but after a little experimentation, I found that they are really solidly seated in the OSB. They are brittle enough that they seem to break before they bend.

I bet you're right that the drywall would push the nails through the OSB and force the hardwood floor up.

I'm interested to see how much isolation I get from beefing up the subfloor.

As it stands, I can literally have a conversation through the floor, so I imagine that there is a lot of leakage.

I had hoped to be able to leave the ceiling unfinished To retain some height in the room, but I can't imagine that it will provide enough isolation to even record vocals.

Looking at buying 2 boxes of Auralex RC-8, a green glue 5 gal pail and gun applicator.

Last edited by Grovestand; 9th September 2015 at 02:29 PM..
Old 10th September 2015
  #9
I'm not sure if these pictures will be interesting or not, but they outline some of the difficulties that I'm coming up against.

Namely the space between the top plate of the load bearing wall and the sub floor.

Pretty much all of the wiring for the house runs through this wall (and it is a mess). I'm debating whether it will be more efficient to address each of these passthroughs individually, or cut all of the runs and route them outside of the room.

There is a cold water pipe that runs to an outside faucet that we do not use, so I am probably going to get rid of it.



1. is a shot of some light peaking through between two sheets of drywall. It is really hard to get them all sealed up before the mud goes on.

2. This is the edge of the foundation, where the majority of the electrical is routed. I am considering routing all of the cables that are in the wall over here.

3. Cables running through the wall.

4. To put up the drywall between the joist I put up some cleats made of 2x4s.

5. So many little gaps in the framing. I am sealing them up as I find them. Missing one means the whole assembly might not work!

6. Here's 1 panel up!

7. I had the work van today and so I optimistically purchased more supplies to do the interior ceiling. Hopefully this means no trips to Home Depot this weekend.


About to pull the trigger on 5 Gallons of green glue and 48 pieces of resilient channel!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-light-shining-through.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-cables-way.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-lot-cables-wall.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-4.-cleats.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-5.-gaps.jpg  

Basement Studio in Upstate New York-6.-panels.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-7.-more-supplies.jpg  

Last edited by Grovestand; 10th September 2015 at 03:49 PM..
Old 11th September 2015
  #10
Nothing too exciting. I put up some more panels last night and took some detail shots of the cable pass throughs.

As far as isolation goes, I can now stand in the corner and the sound of the dehumidifier from the other room is noticeably quieter in the high end. Baby steps.

[Edit] Finished adding panels between the joist last weekend. I keep finding places that air could get through that I did not think about (like between the sistered ends of the joist).

Looking forward to getting the green glue so I can put up the second layer and install the door!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-more-panels-place.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-cable-pass-through.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-low-voltage-cable-pass-throuh.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-backer-rod-between-joist.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-wide-angle.jpg  

Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-detail-joist.jpg  

Last edited by Grovestand; 14th September 2015 at 08:54 PM..
Old 16th September 2015
  #11
The 1st layer of the outer leaf is completely caulked!



and the inner layer of the outer leaf is most of the way there:




So far I've used up 18 tubes of OSI 175. Here are some of them...



I haven't made much progress on the ceiling, just clearing obstructions. Hopefully tonight I will finish caulking the ceiling and this weekend I can get back to drywalling!

48 pieces of Resilient Channel arrived! Got a great price from Markertek!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-exterior-wide.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-interior-detail-caulked.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-interior-wide.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-4.-rc-8.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-5.-caulk.jpg  

Old 25th September 2015
  #12
Probably not too exciting for the outside world, but I finally got the green glue and started putting up layer two on the outer leaf. This means that I can put up my door! That will feel almost like a room!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-new-arrivals.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-glue.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-oops.jpg  
Old 28th September 2015
  #13
Well I'm nothing if not thorough. This build is going pretty slow compared to the big ones, but I'm chugging along.

If nothing else, at least there should be some educational value (what to do, what not to do).

Here is a detail shot of me sealing the gaps between the joist and the subfloor:



I've finished putting up foam between the joist (This will function as a spacer so that drywall can be attached directly to the subfloor). Each piece of foam is held in place partially by friction and partially with a couple of drywall screws. This is an in progress shot.



I've finished putting up R-13 within the outer leaf.
I haven't put up insulation against the masonry wall, but I will put up 1" of foam with foil, mainly to keep moisture under control.



My dad and I put up door #1 of 2. We built the opening to be slightly larger than the prehung door, but with the overhang of drywall and durock it was a hell of a time
getting the door to fit!







The next step is to finish the second layer of the outer leaf with green glue and sheetrock. Then I will start putting up drywall between the joists.
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-sealing-joist.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-foam-up.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-r-13.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-4.-door-open.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-5.-door-other-side.jpg  

Old 6th October 2015
  #14
Not a LOT of pics but...

OK so the first big piece of news is WHY I'm building my studio (since I just finished my project studio).

I have to move out of my project studio because we're having a baby boy!

So that's really exciting and it's lighting a fire under me to get this thing done. I have 6 months until he arrives!

I have finished the second layer of drywall on the outer leaf. I still have to do mud, caulk, and backer rod. (No picture of that one)

I purchased all of the foam insulation for the concrete wall and the framing lumber for the inner leaf.


I got the door for the inner leaf! And it was free! Someone was gutting their house and this was the old front door. It is so heavy. I'm thinking that I am going to build a jam for it and attempt to prehang the door. Can anyone point me in the right direction for instructions on how to do this? I know that it's not for the faint of heart, but luckily the door part of the equation is already done, so all I have to worry about is the frame. If I screw that up then it just means buying more lumber.



Here is the bottom of the door, looks like it will need some work:



Here's the front of the door, There is some kind of laminate on top of the wood, that is really easy to peel off.

Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-framing.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-door-wide.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-door-detail-1.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-4.-door-stripped.jpg  
Old 8th October 2015
  #15
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Lots of work. One thing I noticed is it looks like there is caulking in the seams of the drywall.caulking is only required at the perimeter edges of the walls. A rough tape job using regular paper drywall tape does the trick for the seams where the drywall sheets butt up against each other in the field, or middle of the walls.
Old 8th October 2015 | Show parent
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmetal ➑️
Lots of work. One thing I noticed is it looks like there is caulking in the seams of the drywall.caulking is only required at the perimeter edges of the walls. A rough tape job using regular paper drywall tape does the trick for the seams where the drywall sheets butt up against each other in the field, or middle of the walls.
Hey!

Thanks for your reply. I have actually read that about caulking the seams. I will do the rest of the panels more traditionally...

When I first started, I had this idea that I would make the room with only 1 leaf.

That's why I caulked the seams, I figured that it would help ensure that I got it totally air tight.

The isolation is actually pretty impressive with just two layers of 1/2" drywall with green glue, but I know that it's not good enough, so the build continues.

Edit: did I mention that the outer leaf is done? I'm off to home depot to buy screws that will not go through my subfloor .
Old 7th November 2015
  #17
I guess saying the outer leaf is done was premature. I have been caulking and drywalling the joist for what feels like forever.

Just started insulating the ceiling.

Here's a photo. I will have to come back and update the thread when I have a little time.

The strong tie insulation holders are so great, I can't imagine stapling the whole ceiling.
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-image.jpg  
Old 8th November 2015
  #18
Sen
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🎧 15 years
Great stuff Grovestand!!
Not sure why the thumbnails are not opening up when I click on them. Not just this thread, but all others.. Anyone else having this issue..
Old 8th November 2015 | Show parent
  #19
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NumberSix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
Great stuff Grovestand!!
Not sure why the thumbnails are not opening up when I click on them. Not just this thread, but all others.. Anyone else having this issue..
Yes, at least on safari IOS.
Old 8th November 2015 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
Not sure why the thumbnails are not opening up when I click on them. Not just this thread, but all others.. Anyone else having this issue..
Happens here on Mac too!!!
Old 8th November 2015
  #21
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Owen L T's Avatar
 
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And on PC.
Old 9th November 2015
  #22
I haven't been able to open thumbnails for weeks on IOS, Safari, or Chrome. I did not try it on my PC...

But today it seems that I CAN open thumbnails.

Also, sorry for the orientation of the photo above. Here's are some better ones.

WALTER WHITE IMPERSONATION


CHEAP THRESHOLD FOR OUTER LEAF DOOR


FOAMMMMMMMMMMMM
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-1.-walter-white.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-2.-threshold.jpg   Basement Studio in Upstate New York-3.-wall-insulation.jpg  
Old 9th November 2015
  #23
Deleted 9d8db46
Guest
Congratulations on becoming a dad (soon). Only problem I foresee, is you won't have any time to use that great new studio when the little bundle arrives!
Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Old 9th November 2015 | Show parent
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 ➑️
Congratulations on becoming a dad (soon). Only problem I foresee, is you won't have any time to use that great new studio when the little bundle arrives!
Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Well if worse comes to worst at least I will have a place to put him if he ever decides he wants to play my drum kit .

You're probably right, but my hope is that I will achieve enough isolation to mix at moderate levels after he's gone down for the night .

As far as still having energy to make music... Well I'm not sure how to achieve that... Drugs?
Old 9th November 2015 | Show parent
  #25
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand ➑️

You're probably right, but my hope is that I will achieve enough isolation to mix at moderate levels after he's gone down for the night .
My strong advice is NOT to try and tip-toe around your kid with the noise. My four year old's bedroom is directly above the recording studio and he's always been subjected to some noise when sleeping. When we had a nanny she'd put him down for an afternoon nap, come into the studio to let me know he was down and she was leaving, and I'd continue mixing away subjecting my son to whatever I was working on. Whenever we are at a friend or family member's house whenever their kids go down everybody is on their tip-toes whispering. At our house, since he's always had some noise when sleeping, we don't change anything when he goes to sleep, no problem. Action movie? No problem. A few friends over for wine and laughs? No problem. He sleeps through all of it. Now at preschool when I get his little daily report the box "slept at nap time" is ALWAYS checked. He can sleep through anything. My wife credits the recording studio for it, and I concur.
Old 9th November 2015 | Show parent
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➑️
My strong advice is NOT to try and tip-toe around your kid with the noise. My four year old's bedroom is directly above the recording studio and he's always been subjected to some noise when sleeping. When we had a nanny she'd put him down for an afternoon nap, come into the studio to let me know he was down and she was leaving, and I'd continue mixing away subjecting my son to whatever I was working on. Whenever we are at a friend or family member's house whenever their kids go down everybody is on their tip-toes whispering. At our house, since he's always had some noise when sleeping, we don't change anything when he goes to sleep, no problem. Action movie? No problem. A few friends over for wine and laughs? No problem. He sleeps through all of it. Now at preschool when I get his little daily report the box "slept at nap time" is ALWAYS checked. He can sleep through anything. My wife credits the recording studio for it, and I concur.
Yes, but my wife will probably be sleeping at the same time, and she has not been similarly conditioned .

That's good advice though, and I will make sure to make plenty of noise when he's asleep and I'm not in the studio.
Old 9th November 2015 | Show parent
  #27
Deleted 9d8db46
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➑️
When we had a nanny she'd put him down for an afternoon nap, come into the studio to let me know he was down and she was leaving, and I'd continue mixing away subjecting my son to whatever I was working on. Whenever we are at a friend or family member's house whenever their kids go down everybody is on their tip-toes whispering. At our house, since he's always had some noise when sleeping, we don't change anything when he goes to sleep, no problem. Action movie? No problem. A few friends over for wine and laughs? No problem.
. . . . And it was late in the evening
And all the music seeping through . . .
-Paul Simon
Old 13th November 2015
  #28
So here's me furring out the concrete wall. I know that it's not 100% ideal, but as I mentioned I cannot hear anything with my ear up against the concrete. I assume that I won't get too much more sound transmission.

I also am getting down to the wire on budget and time, and I still have to put in Electrical conduit and lighting so I have to get some rock on the walls this weekend.



Thanks for looking!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement Studio in Upstate New York-furring.jpg  
Old 15th November 2015
  #29
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Nice work, can't wait to see the finished product. I also live in upstate NY, and basements are great,
but also a MAJOR pain to keep dry, especially in our climate. Your doing a great job, should be cool.
Old 15th November 2015 | Show parent
  #30
thanks!!!

When I moved in I had a ton of surface water intrusion!

There was a cinder block that had been washed out of the basement walkout and rain would just pour in there.

The gutters weren't carrying water away from the house.

The ground was sloped towards the foundation.

The basement has an area for the well that is made of block that was not sealed.

The chimney had no cap and would leak into the basement every time that it rained.

This is why I used Durock for the lowest portion of the outer leaf. In case I had water problems that I hadn't fixed yet. I've remedied all of the above issues, and I'm happy to say that the slab has been completely dry since then. I am on a hill so I have high hopes that I am well above the water table and won't get anything coming up from below.

A Katrina or a sandy and we might have some issues, but I'm going to leave the floor unfinished concrete for now and keep an eye on it.

Thanks for commenting. I have been hauling Sheetrock by myself all day and starting to lose steam. Thanks for helping motivate me!
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