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Sidechaining in Cubase ELEMENTS 7
Old 9th April 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Sidechaining in Cubase ELEMENTS 7

Hi guys,

As the title suggests I am trying to sidechain my bass guitar on Kontakt with the Kick drum sample I've imported.

I've read this isn't possible in the Elements version of Cubase 7 I use, I'm wondering if their is a way of doing this?

I heard there is a long way round of doing it compared to the simple Sidechain button which wasn't available years ago.

Any advice?

MM
Old 10th April 2014
  #2
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I had same problem, I had elements until I could afford 7.5, in the end I just bought Logic Pro , I couldn't find the answer either, you could automate the volume so it ducks when the kick hits but this would be a bit of a pain the ass IMHO
Old 10th April 2014
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Damn I really an't move to Logic, I'm still trying to master this DAW.

Surely there was a way before that sidechain button was there!
Old 10th April 2014
  #4
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I really couldn't find it man, I googled it loads....the only other option is to upgrade to artists I'm afraid :(
Old 10th April 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
apartment dog's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Cubase elements doen't have sidechaining. Steinberg sure knows what to leave out.
There is a comparison chart at the website.
Stereo panning is also missing.
Old 10th April 2014
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Argh, they do indeed.

Time to upgrade I think, I suppose you have to have difference in price.
Old 10th April 2014
  #7
13030
Guest
Damn,d did a search and you can't even use the quadro trick. Apparently only Pro and Artists have sc.
Old 11th April 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
you are not able to drop a compressor on a group channel?
Old 11th April 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Well that was my thinking, I don't understand the whole idea of sidechaining, I thought there was a longer way of doing it was simplified by the button.

Was just after a longer explanation of what I'm doing and how to do it.

my understanding is that I am putting a compressor on the bass guitar which will be triggered by the kick?
But how do I do this?
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megamind ➡️
Well that was my thinking, I don't understand the whole idea of sidechaining, I thought there was a longer way of doing it was simplified by the button.

Was just after a longer explanation of what I'm doing and how to do it.

my understanding is that I am putting a compressor on the bass guitar which will be triggered by the kick?
But how do I do this?
make a group channel, add the cubase compressor, has button near top left that says sidechain.... route your bass to the group and send your kick there with the send fader. I dont remember if I used pre fader or not, try both.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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apartment dog's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknatronik ➡️
make a group channel, add the cubase compressor, has button near top left that says sidechain.... route your bass to the group and send your kick there with the send fader. I dont remember if I used pre fader or not, try both.
As I said earlier; Cubase elements doen't have SC, that means that in Cubase elements no plugin has the SC button you mention.
It's weird but it's true.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apartment dog ➡️
As I said earlier; Cubase elements doen't have SC, that means that in Cubase elements no plugin has the SC button you mention.
It's weird but it's true.
than use another compressor? I cant remember how I did it before that button.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
apartment dog's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknatronik ➡️
than use another compressor? I cant remember how I did it before that button.
Cubase uses a special SC function they put in the wrapping of all (not only cubase stock ones) plugin gui's. That is the way SC works in Cubase.
That function is not available in Cubase elements.

To the OP; if you want a good value for your money, buy Reaper, switch to a decent theme for it and buy a couple of Groove3 tutorials on Reaper, you will get all you need in a DAW. For $60 you will have a license that will last for some years. You have to have some decent synth plugins yourself in this scenario. You won't have to pay every year for stuff you don't want like with Steinberg.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apartment dog ➡️
Cubase uses a special SC function they put in the wrapping of all (not only cubase stock ones) plugin gui's. That is the way SC works in Cubase.
That function is not available in Cubase elements.

To the OP; if you want a good value for your money, buy Reaper, switch to a decent theme for it and buy a couple of Groove3 tutorials on Reaper, you will get all you need in a DAW. For $60 you will have a license that will last for some years. You have to have some decent synth plugins yourself in this scenario. You won't have to pay every year for stuff you don't want like with Steinberg.
Pay every year with Steinberg? Since when did they make anyone upgrade? This sidechain function is something new? In sx3 I could use any compressor with sidechain function I wanted.

I can agree some of the new Cubase stuff is not what I need, but imo only, Cubase is such a smooth BMW!!! I been on Ableton, Reason, Fruity and none come close.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #15
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apartment dog's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknatronik ➡️
Pay every year with Steinberg? Since when did they make anyone upgrade?
They don't make you upgrade, I just compare it with having another DAW fully supported and up to date for a couple of years. If you want that with Cubase you have to pay every year.
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #16
13030
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknatronik ➡️
than use another compressor? I cant remember how I did it before that button.
dude, it's not the compressor. cubase elements won't allow you to sc even if your compressor has it..........don't ask me why man. o presonally think everything should have a sc, but then i'm kinda mad on sc being a sound designer
Old 11th April 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samplecraze ➡️
dude, it's not the compressor. cubase elements won't allow you to sc even if your compressor has it..........don't ask me why man. o presonally think everything should have a sc, but then i'm kinda mad on sc being a sound designer
yeh, I agree, it should be a basic function of any daw whether it be elements, artist or full. sorry to hear they restricted something so basic.
Old 15th April 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You can do it, I think, if you want your bass in mono (why wouldn't you; you can always layer higher frequency stuff that you want in stereo on a different track?)

1. Pan your bass track left and route to a new stereo group track.
2. Pan your drum track right and send that to the same stereo group track. (normally I'd use pre-fader sends but I don't think you can use panning on sends in this DAW — you can always use a copy of your drum track for this, as you're going to mute it - to create a copy, just use a send to a mono group channel; treat that one as your side-chain source.
3. To test the routing press play. You should be hearing drums on the left and bass on the right. If not, go back and try again. Otherwise carry on.
4. Insert a stereo compressor on that group track, and adjust its threshold so that the compressor is triggering when the drum hit sounds. To do that, your drum is going to need to be louder than the bass —*you can balance the levels of the bass part and the drum part using the source channels' level controls. Don't worry about relative levels for now, as you're going to adjust these later.
5. Once set up, you should hear the bass part being compressed. Adjust the attack/release times to taste.
6. Insert a plug-in after the compressor that allows you to mute the L or R channels individually. Eg Flux Stereo Tool (freeware). Mute the left channel. Now you should hear only bass but only in the right channel.
7. Route the output of this group to a new mono group channel. Put the pan pot in the centre (it should be there by default) and you should hear only your bass part, but it should be being compressed by the drum trigger signal.


I don't have this cut-down version of Cubase so it's possible that I've missed something. And it will only work for compressing mono signals unless your DAW supports groups with more channels. But this should work in any DAW that supports aux sends and group tracks to be routed to other group tracks.

An easier way would be to buy Twisted Lemon's Sidekick plug-in, which is really cheap and makes this hassle free in any DAW that doesn't support it.

Cheers,

Matt
Old 24th January 2016
  #19
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I’ve been trying for ages to sidechain-compress MIDI from an audio track in Cubase 7 Elements, all in full stereo. I’ve finally cracked it using the excellent free Compressive Pro plugin and several Group tracks. This splits the left and right channels to use Compressive Pro’s pan-based sidechain input.

It’s complicated but works! Once you have Compressive Pro, create 7 new Group tracks as follows:
1. ‘MIDI Master’, routed to the actual output bus
2. ‘Sidechain L’, routed to ‘MIDI Master’, with CompressivePro as an insert
3. Copy ‘Sidechain L’ to a new track, ‘Sidechain R’ (ideally after you’ve got the basic CompressivePro settings right, so you don’t have to edit them too much)
4. ‘Midi Left’, routed to ‘Sidechain L’, panned hard to the left
5. ‘Midi Right’, routed to ‘Sidechain R’, panned hard right
6. ‘Audio R to SC L’, routed to ‘Sidechain L’, but panned hard right
7. ‘Audio L to SC R’, routed to ‘Sidechain R’, panned hard left.

If you’re not exclusively using Rewire, create one more Group track for MIDI output and route all MIDI (e.g. Halion) to it. Otherwise just edit the Rewire return track. Call it ‘MIDI to SC’ and route it to ‘No Bus’ (i.e. no direct output). Add two sends: one to ‘MIDI Left’, the other to ‘MIDI Right’.

Similarly, if you have more than one Audio track you want to input into the sidechain, route them all to a single Group track called ‘Audio to SC’. Otherwise just edit your Audio track. Add sends to ‘Audio R’ to SC L’ and ‘Audio L to SC R’. Keep the output to the main bus though.

Edit Compressive Pro on ‘Sidechain L’ and set the SC Input to ‘Right’ (i.e. the right channel is the sidechain feed that compresses the left channel). Edit it on ‘Sidechain R’ so it’s ‘Left’.

Keep all sends post-fader, so you can use volume automation directly on each track without losing it in the side-chaining (with the possible exception of the audio output to the sidechains if you prefer).

Put any other FX sends for MIDI on the ‘MIDI Master’ track so they are included in the sidechaining (otherwise they’ll probably wash over the whole effect). I also dragged that out of the Group folder so I could collapse that folder on screen without hiding any events (e.g. send automation).

Unfortunately Compressive Pro always lets some side signal through. To minimise it, set the Mid/Side to -1, and the ‘Audio to SC’ sends down low (around -16). If the audio noticeably picks up FX sends meant for MIDI, or loses its own, use Inserts on the original tracks instead.

Edit both Compressor Pro inserts side by side and tweak their Compressor settings (start with minimum threshold and maximum compression to get the biggest sidechaining effect) and experiment with your ‘Audio to SC’ output level to get the balance right.

The end result should be that you’ve split your MIDI between left and right, with each sidechained by Audio from the opposite channel. It might help to sort/colour the Group tracks by channel. Finally, once the settings are right I suggest saving your file as a template and using it every time.
Old 8th April 2016 | Show parent
  #20
DSG
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
You can use this approach in Cubase Elements to sidechain mono sources with ReaComp. Create a stereo group channel as described with Drum/Bass panned L/R. (You have to copy the kick channel or temporarily re-route its output instead of using sends.) Insert ReaComp and pan the new stereo channel hard R to hear bass only. ReaComp has a "Detector Input" option that allows you to select "Main Input L." ReaComp will use the L kick channel as the trigger to compress the R bass channel. Finally, you have to center the compressed bass output. You can do this by plugin, routing the channel output to a new mono group channel, or by just printing a mono audio file. A little messy but it works.
Old 2nd September 2017
  #21
Here for the gear
 
Darn it, I wasn't quite able to pull that off. I'm in Cubase elements 8 and am trying to sidechain strings to a kick drum so that the strings have a pulsing effect. I see that the CompressivePro has sidechain settings, but there doesn't seem to be a way to specify a source. I also went through your directions about 8 times and couldn't tell if it was doing anything whatsoever. And do I use internal or external for the source in CompressivePro? Internal was the default. *confused* Thx

edit: Looks like there are quite a few VST sidechain compressors both free and commercial. Maybe that's the best solution for us Cubase Elements users

Quote:
Originally Posted by mephisto monkey ➡️
I’ve been trying for ages to sidechain-compress MIDI from an audio track in Cubase 7 Elements, all in full stereo. I’ve finally cracked it using the excellent free Compressive Pro plugin and several Group tracks. This splits the left and right channels to use Compressive Pro’s pan-based sidechain input.

It’s complicated but works! Once you have Compressive Pro, create 7 new Group tracks as follows:
1. ‘MIDI Master’, routed to the actual output bus
2. ‘Sidechain L’, routed to ‘MIDI Master’, with CompressivePro as an insert
3. Copy ‘Sidechain L’ to a new track, ‘Sidechain R’ (ideally after you’ve got the basic CompressivePro settings right, so you don’t have to edit them too much)
4. ‘Midi Left’, routed to ‘Sidechain L’, panned hard to the left
5. ‘Midi Right’, routed to ‘Sidechain R’, panned hard right
6. ‘Audio R to SC L’, routed to ‘Sidechain L’, but panned hard right
7. ‘Audio L to SC R’, routed to ‘Sidechain R’, panned hard left.

If you’re not exclusively using Rewire, create one more Group track for MIDI output and route all MIDI (e.g. Halion) to it. Otherwise just edit the Rewire return track. Call it ‘MIDI to SC’ and route it to ‘No Bus’ (i.e. no direct output). Add two sends: one to ‘MIDI Left’, the other to ‘MIDI Right’.

Similarly, if you have more than one Audio track you want to input into the sidechain, route them all to a single Group track called ‘Audio to SC’. Otherwise just edit your Audio track. Add sends to ‘Audio R’ to SC L’ and ‘Audio L to SC R’. Keep the output to the main bus though.

Edit Compressive Pro on ‘Sidechain L’ and set the SC Input to ‘Right’ (i.e. the right channel is the sidechain feed that compresses the left channel). Edit it on ‘Sidechain R’ so it’s ‘Left’.

Keep all sends post-fader, so you can use volume automation directly on each track without losing it in the side-chaining (with the possible exception of the audio output to the sidechains if you prefer).

Put any other FX sends for MIDI on the ‘MIDI Master’ track so they are included in the sidechaining (otherwise they’ll probably wash over the whole effect). I also dragged that out of the Group folder so I could collapse that folder on screen without hiding any events (e.g. send automation).

Unfortunately Compressive Pro always lets some side signal through. To minimise it, set the Mid/Side to -1, and the ‘Audio to SC’ sends down low (around -16). If the audio noticeably picks up FX sends meant for MIDI, or loses its own, use Inserts on the original tracks instead.

Edit both Compressor Pro inserts side by side and tweak their Compressor settings (start with minimum threshold and maximum compression to get the biggest sidechaining effect) and experiment with your ‘Audio to SC’ output level to get the balance right.

The end result should be that you’ve split your MIDI between left and right, with each sidechained by Audio from the opposite channel. It might help to sort/colour the Group tracks by channel. Finally, once the settings are right I suggest saving your file as a template and using it every time.
Old 3rd September 2017 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
stella645's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plato1123 ➡️
edit: Looks like there are quite a few VST sidechain compressors both free and commercial. Maybe that's the best solution for us Cubase Elements users
As long as you realise you will still need to use the Quadro channel workaround to access the sidechain.
Old 4th September 2017 | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stella645 ➡️
As long as you realise you will still need to use the Quadro channel workaround to access the sidechain.
Hmmm, trying to follow instructions on doing that but it looks like Cubase elements only has mono and stereo when adding a group channel, am I missing something?

Quote:
An easier way would be to buy Twisted Lemon's Sidekick plug-in, which is really cheap and makes this hassle free in any DAW that doesn't support it.
edit: Whoever suggested Sidekick, nice one, wow that was easy!!! Sidekick VST works great even in Cubase elements 8! Create two tracks, a kick drum and say a synth. Add Sidekick as an insert on both your Drums (trigger) and your Synth. For the trigger track, leave the power of the vst plugin off but notice the bus number it shows. Note that this power button is part of the vst itself and is not the power button to disable that vst.

On the copy of Sidekick that is on your Synth or Strings simply click the number on the left side that corresponds to the number that was shown in the trigger copy. See screenshot here:
https://i.imgur.com/qUkYeUD.png

So the trigger is configured on the right side, the actual audio (sorry term escapes me) is on the left in my screenshot, in this case strings. When the kickdrum hits the strings duck based on the compressor settings on the left.

Last edited by plato1123; 4th September 2017 at 02:31 AM.. Reason: found solution
Old 4th September 2017 | Show parent
  #24
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stella645's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plato1123 ➡️
Hmmm, trying to follow instructions on doing that but it looks like Cubase elements only has mono and stereo when adding a group channel, am I missing something?
my apologies....you're right, even this is not possible in Elements.

Glad you finally found something that worked.
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