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Airwindows TUBE!: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #91
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeegee 303 ➡️
Are you saying that it sounds very similar to all other soft clipper plugins? Could you give some examples of other plugins that sound and behave similarly to Tube?
Try the "Tubey" setting on GSat+ by TBProAudio

And SGA's 1566 has a great sound.

Not to mention on both of them you also have oversampling and other nifty useful controls.

Edit: forgot to mention Tuba from Analog Obsession. Very useful.

Last edited by TurboJets; 1 week ago at 05:38 PM.. Reason: add info
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #92
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo ➡️
various clipping curves, the option to make it sound more "analog" (asymmetrical)
In the interests of having SOMETHING positive to put into this thread in spite of everything, I can point out that this is an obvious thing to add to a follow-up to Tube that has all the trim controls people want, plus the wet/dry, plus a nice simple highpass since that's useful on distortions

It wouldn't be this week or the next, but I certainly will deliver that: it's more in line with what I normally do, as opposed to 'in line with the extremely minimal, single-function stuff I ALSO normally do' like Spiral etc.

I've also got experiments underway around ways to manipulate the sharpness of 'saturation corners' in line with the concept of electrostatic fields varying input impedance to a driver stage and also having that effect exaggerated by time delays in the negative feedback process, and the interesting thing is that such an effect would inherently produce higher even harmonics in the absence of lower odd harmonics… which you do get out of single-ended amplifier stages, in their own way, otherwise guitar amplifiers would continually blow their own speakers with one side of the wave being 10000 dB louder than the other the signal path of high-gain distorted amplifiers is NOT exclusively push-pull, yet harmonics are still predominantly odd harmonics on most designs.

I ALSO think it is a very curious sort of 'dishonest', to intentionally design in a 'marketing boost' as it's suitable to the basic functionality of what the plugin is (much like designing a very simple peak limiter for the 2-buss, most of your attention is going to be around carefully controlling the output relative to 0dB)… and then taking great pains to call it what it is, and draw attention to that in every single form of promotional communications you've put forth, explicitly explaining what's happening. If you do a magic trick and then immediately show how it's done, is it still a trick or has it become something else?

Dear God, I haven't looked at the comments on the youtube video okay, that's going to be interesting. And then I'll return to both the more-parameters follow-up, and the odd-higher-harmonics refinement (which may or may not work).

If the latter works, there will be a Tube2 at some point, which is the same except for the subtle change in tone from that added even-harmonics algorithm. And it will have identical controls to Tube. Some people will be better served by the lots-of-sliders variation.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #93
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
In the interests of having SOMETHING positive to put into this thread in spite of everything, I can point out that this is an obvious thing to add to a follow-up to Tube that has all the trim controls people want, plus the wet/dry, plus a nice simple highpass since that's useful on distortions

It wouldn't be this week or the next, but I certainly will deliver that: it's more in line with what I normally do, as opposed to 'in line with the extremely minimal, single-function stuff I ALSO normally do' like Spiral etc.

I've also got experiments underway around ways to manipulate the sharpness of 'saturation corners' in line with the concept of electrostatic fields varying input impedance to a driver stage and also having that effect exaggerated by time delays in the negative feedback process, and the interesting thing is that such an effect would inherently produce higher even harmonics in the absence of lower odd harmonics… which you do get out of single-ended amplifier stages, in their own way, otherwise guitar amplifiers would continually blow their own speakers with one side of the wave being 10000 dB louder than the other the signal path of high-gain distorted amplifiers is NOT exclusively push-pull, yet harmonics are still predominantly odd harmonics on most designs.

I ALSO think it is a very curious sort of 'dishonest', to intentionally design in a 'marketing boost' as it's suitable to the basic functionality of what the plugin is (much like designing a very simple peak limiter for the 2-buss, most of your attention is going to be around carefully controlling the output relative to 0dB)… and then taking great pains to call it what it is, and draw attention to that in every single form of promotional communications you've put forth, explicitly explaining what's happening. If you do a magic trick and then immediately show how it's done, is it still a trick or has it become something else?

Dear God, I haven't looked at the comments on the youtube video okay, that's going to be interesting. And then I'll return to both the more-parameters follow-up, and the odd-higher-harmonics refinement (which may or may not work).

If the latter works, there will be a Tube2 at some point, which is the same except for the subtle change in tone from that added even-harmonics algorithm. And it will have identical controls to Tube. Some people will be better served by the lots-of-sliders variation.
Great mate. Now what about that panning law thingy with Console7?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #94
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo ➡️
Great mate. Now what about that panning law thingy with Console7?
What panning law thingy with Console?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #95
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
What panning law thingy with Console?
You said that you shouldn't use faders (at least with pre-fader effects) when mixing with Console7. Now, most DAWs have panning laws (usually attenuating the middle by 1.5/3/6dB). Which you can deactivate so that there is no attenuation when you move from hard left/right. This is done to ensure that volumes are kept consistent when panning, but it does basically equate to "using the faders". So what should the user do? If you keep the middle attenuation, stuff at the middle will be less saturated but still loud as it's reproduced by both speakers equally. If you remove the attenuation, the saturation is kept consistent in the side channel but the volume will go up in general.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #96
Gear Nut
 
Chris TUBE! really does sound great! I am going to use it in between Tape and Dark on the tail end of a Purestconsole2 project and tweak into it very shortly
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo ➡️
Look, I am not really that "discerning" when it comes to saturation (and I doubt that anybody is).
how DARE you!

did you not hear the clips I posted earlier in the thread?

there be differences far me, matey
Old 6 days ago
  #98
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So… I didn't stop working, and some folks from Surge Synthesizer and other places got me digging up the RCA Receiving Tube manual, and trying to get something that worked like the inertia of floods of electrons generating even harmonic distortion, especially as higher harmonics.

If I happened to have a Tube2 that was so much more intense than Tube1 that I HAD to put an input pad on it just to get it to be manageable, and increase the 'linearity range' to twice as far as Tube1 just to keep the thing in check, thus letting you dial in any amount of absurdity from strict unity gain all the way up to the former madness…

…would you want it right away? (ok, Sunday?)
Old 6 days ago
  #99
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I personally would, yes, I think this has a lot of potential Chris!
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #100
Gear Nut
 
Yes. Yes we would : )
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #101
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
…would you want it right away? (ok, Sunday?)
Absolutely we would
Old 6 days ago
  #102
Gear Nut
 
pipamail's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yes we would! )))
Old 6 days ago
  #103
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As you wish <3
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #104
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
As you wish <3
OK Westley...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
If I happened to have a Tube2 that was so much more intense than Tube1 that I HAD to put an input pad on it just to get it to be manageable, and increase the 'linearity range' to twice as far as Tube1 just to keep the thing in check, thus letting you dial in any amount of absurdity from strict unity gain all the way up to the former madness…
... this is, in all other ways, INCONCIEABLE !!
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #105
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
If I happened to have a Tube2 that was so much more intense than Tube1 that I HAD to put an input pad on it just to get it to be manageable, and increase the 'linearity range' to twice as far as Tube1 just to keep the thing in check, thus letting you dial in any amount of absurdity from strict unity gain all the way up to the former madness…

…would you want it right away? (ok, Sunday?)
I personally won't say no.... although I'm perfectly fine with TUBE as it is.

Mind you, I did have to go through the "EXCRUCIATING" () experience of adding an output compensated input gain - to my "UberTUBE" structure (I spend the last 24 hours in my bed, exhausted, trying to recover my strength back, after the mammoth energy outage )

I call it this structure : "TriTUBE"

And thus, its slogan shall be :

"Tri... before your Fly !"

Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #106
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
Do people actually use BlueCat plugins?
You’re missing out on some seriously good sounding stuff that’s included in Patchwork. Absolute sleepers.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins ➡️
You’re missing out on some seriously good sounding stuff that’s included in Patchwork. Absolute sleepers.
Thanks for the recommendation but I can't think of a single reason why I'd need it.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #108
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
Thanks for the recommendation but I can't think of a single reason why I'd need it.
The single reason (literally) to need Patchwork and similar software is easy management of FX chains. There is nothing you can't do without Patchwork and with some track/bus management, but with this kind of software, you build your chain once, all inside the plugin, and then you just recall it easily across DAWs, across PCs even (if you only use the internal FX) and have the same sound every time. If you don't need this sort of stuff then you don't need Patchwork.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo ➡️
The single reason (literally) to need Patchwork and similar software is easy management of FX chains. There is nothing you can't do without Patchwork and with some track/bus management, but with this kind of software, you build your chain once, all inside the plugin, and then you just recall it easily across DAWs, across PCs even (if you only use the internal FX) and have the same sound every time. If you don't need this sort of stuff then you don't need Patchwork.
Luckily I don't need that.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
So… I didn't stop working, and some folks from Surge Synthesizer and other places got me digging up the RCA Receiving Tube manual, and trying to get something that worked like the inertia of floods of electrons generating even harmonic distortion, especially as higher harmonics.

If I happened to have a Tube2 that was so much more intense than Tube1 that I HAD to put an input pad on it just to get it to be manageable, and increase the 'linearity range' to twice as far as Tube1 just to keep the thing in check, thus letting you dial in any amount of absurdity from strict unity gain all the way up to the former madness…

…would you want it right away? (ok, Sunday?)
Chris you need to leave ULI alone......He is another superhero like you!

Jokes aside ; a genius like you should not have to explain his "higher abstraction" design philosophy to people who don't deserve what you bring to the table.

With extreme talents and abilities comes ; extreme jealousies from people who DON'T possess those talents OR abilities.

We are all fortunate you do what you do.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #111
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
Try the "Tubey" setting on GSat+ by TBProAudio
There's no "Tubey" setting. it is tube based, to a varying degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
And SGA's 1566 has a great sound..
Yes, but it eats TONS of CPU.

---------------

BTW, Chris

Why the brutal LP setting ? it can sound a little "murky" with modern electronic stuff (it is subtle but vary obvious)
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicLov3r ➡️
There's no "Tubey" setting. it is tube based, to a varying degree


Yes, but it eats TONS of CPU.

---------------

BTW, Chris

Why the brutal LP setting ? it can sound a little "murky" with modern electronic stuff (it is subtle but vary obvious)
Under factory presets you will see "Tubey". Yes, CPU heavy but the sound is fantastic.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #113
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
People like you are ignoring the fact that it is simply chaeting putting out plugins and fool people with loudness & non existing gain compensating option on it....we all know, louder is better!

For more infos, read my last post #39 about this.
People that use the phrase "people like you" give me the creeps.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #114
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg ➡️
Chris you need to leave ULI alone......He is another superhero like you!

Jokes aside ; a genius like you should not have to explain his "higher abstraction" design philosophy to people who don't deserve what you bring to the table.

With extreme talents and abilities comes ; extreme jealousies from people who DON'T possess those talents OR abilities.

We are all fortunate you do what you do.
Luckily i have well tuned ears to spot any of your praised, audio, mesia developer gurus here.

I don´t need another soft clipper without oversampling option, we´re in 2021 not in 2000.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #115
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
Under factory presets you will see "Tubey".
Again.... There's no "Tubey" setting. it is all tube based, at a varying degree.

"Tubey" is a PRESET, Five stages of "WARM" (tube) character, 0% Odd, 100% Even (one can pun around madly here : "even when its 100% Odd, odds are we can call it an even"... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets ➡️
Yes, [SGA1566 is] CPU heavy but the sound is fantastic.
I agree about the sound.
Luckily, Phoenix does a way better job in the CPU department (Phoenix is formerly known as SGA1566 Mk II)

Unfortunately/sadly - SGA isn't hyped around the forums.... AT ALL. unjustifiedly, is you ask me (he's kinda disappeared... but the website exists).
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #116
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
People that use the phrase "people like you" give me the creeps.
Well, to an extent that's what makes it a job instead of 'fun with friends and plugins'.

You can go (I could go), 'listen, the whole point here is minimal processing and doing it at a very high wordlength to retain tonality, dithering to the floating point buss on the output, and while there have always been classic old plugins that accidentally got great tone because they were minimally processing, this is me intentionally maximizing on that as hard as technically possible'.

But there is NO rule anybody on the other end has to listen. They can always say 'ur dumb!!!1!' and some always will. It's a job, You've got to move on, incorporate what you can, and retain the parts of the concept that matter to you.

That's why the Tube2 coming has an input gain trim. Not output… input. The whole idea here is to bring the desired tonality from having incredibly subtle changes in the transfer function. Remember Spiral, and how excited I was that I could take the super-fattening Density algorithm (sin() based) and smooth the zero transition? All this Tube stuff inherently does that. Same with the additional things, all even harmonic related, that I did in Tube2. It's all very linear when not pushing the edges of clipping, and it's all executed with way more linearity than you normally get as you go into clipping in a different sense (word length, not just smoothness through zero) and the gain trim you get is on the input because part of my concept with Tube is how it can be used as a clipper that'll always give you -1.0 to 1.0 output… 0dB clip. The added stages really depend on that, and it's designed to give you RMS balance and loudness matching from adjusting the INPUT because, when you turn it way up, it's super-obvious what's happening even when you've not padded the output one bit.

And then if you wanted super gain (well, kinda) out of it, you can always run a tiny chain of original Tube into Tube2 and done. That ought to work nicely, and I'm sure folks will try it. I think Tube2 into Tube2 might be excessive or get weird, but I always knew the way just plain Tube was designed would lead to usefulness.
Old 3 days ago
  #117
Gear Head
 
melele's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have nothing useful to add to the discussion except to say I am reading with great interest as an AW Patreon subscriber. About the time I was wondering how to go about using the building blocks within the DAW, someone asked that very question and got excellent, clearly articulated answers. Thank you ampetrosillo and Chris for laying that out so nicely. I look forward to giving Tube1 and Tube2 a spin once I’ve set up a template for the AW system in my DAW.

Reading this thread is like attending a grooving jazz concert where, every so often the music stops and the spotlight swings down to a tiny windup chimp banging cymbals for a few minutes, after which the groovy music resumes. That’s showbiz! Thanks.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #118
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by melele ➡️
I have nothing useful to add to the discussion except to say I am reading with great interest as an AW Patreon subscriber. About the time I was wondering how to go about using the building blocks within the DAW, someone asked that very question and got excellent, clearly articulated answers. Thank you ampetrosillo and Chris for laying that out so nicely. I look forward to giving Tube1 and Tube2 a spin once I’ve set up a template for the AW system in my DAW.

Reading this thread is like attending a grooving jazz concert where, every so often the music stops and the spotlight swings down to a tiny windup chimp banging cymbals for a few minutes, after which the groovy music resumes. That’s showbiz! Thanks.
Be kind… or at least as kind as you can. I don't view my critics quite like that, I just choose to design things differently (or very differently) from what they wish. This can be because I've got purpose behind what I'm doing, that they don't share or don't value, and they are allowed to not value that, there's no reason they have to be the same as me. Takes all kinds of perspectives to make up a healthy industry

Since, predictably, making a good thing produces barely a ripple in the pond of Gearspace while getting in a fight draws a giant crowd… anyone who's stumbled across this thread can go to Airwindows Tube2: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST where they'll find the followup, Tube2, which still has no output trim control but does have an INPUT trim control that can (and should) be used to do the level matching.

The reason I think that's correct is, given a tube saturation effect that can make the audio a lot bigger and fuller, padding the input lets you experience that effect while still taming the peaks and leaving room for peaking at 0dB, digital full scale. If you pad the input until the output is level matched, I think that's fair (and also leaves you a HELL of a lot of headroom to play with, like unthinkable hilarious amounts of headroom all of which sounds great)

I don't know what the exact setting would be for that (slightly less than 0.5, I do know that) because it's going to be different for every mix and every test signal you try. I do know that you can find a setting on Tube2 that is 'level matched', and that it's fair to evaluate it on those grounds, and I welcome such evaluation. Just know that you can do that and then hit it with ridiculously hot peaks and 'overs' and it'll soak 'em up gracefully. That's the whole point

Also a good reason to read the newer thread is that there's a bugfix, which applies to the file you can download from the OP, which may never actually be necessary for the original Tube but in case it is… I fixed it

Last edited by chrisj; 18 hours ago at 05:38 AM..
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #119
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Be kind… or at least as kind as you can. I don't view my critics quite like that, I just choose to design things differently (or very differently) from what they wish. This can be because I've got purpose behind what I'm doing, that they don't share or don't value, and they are allowed to not value that, there's no reason they have to be the same as me. Takes all kinds of perspectives to make up a healthy industry

Since, predictably, making a good thing produces barely a ripple in the pond of Gearspace while getting in a fight draws a giant crowd… anyone who's stumbled across this thread can go to Airwindows Tube2: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST where they'll find the followup, Tube2, which still has no output trim control but does have an INPUT trim control that can (and should) be used to do the level matching.

The reason I think that's correct is, given a tube saturation effect that can make the audio a lot bigger and fuller, padding the input lets you experience that effect while still taming the peaks and leaving room for peaking at 0dB, digital full scale. If you pad the input until the output is level matched, I think that's fair (and also leaves you a HELL of a lot of headroom to play with, like unthinkable hilarious amounts of headroom all of which sounds great)

I don't know what the exact setting would be for that (slightly less than 0.5, I do know that) because it's going to be different for every mix and every test signal you try. I do know that you can find a setting on Tube2 that is 'level matched', and that it's fair to evaluate it on those grounds, and I welcome such evaluation. Just know that you can do that and then hit it with ridiculously hot peaks and 'overs' and it'll soak 'em up gracefully. That's the whole point

Also a good reason to read the newer thread is that there's a bugfix, which applies to the file you can download from the OP, which may never actually be necessary for the original Tube but in case it is… I fixed it
Which file should we then download to fix original Tube?
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #120
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo ➡️
Which file should we then download to fix original Tube?
Anything that you got original Tube from, they're all updated together
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