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Apogee Electronics announces all new Duet 3
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slajer ➡️
Hello! sorry for the ignorance, i'm quite a newbie at this, but will this duet 3 be compatible with windows? also I wonder if based on the specifications they consider that it has better preamps than an ssl2, audient, or zen go? And sorry for so many questions, but what do they mean when they talk about the "breakup cable" (I'm from Argentina, I don't speak English and the translator usually confuses some terms)
It says in the release info on the first page that is supports mac os and windows.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
freshmints's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Very excited about this.
The additional outputs cover the problem I had with the Symphony desktop. Hope the converters were updated too...
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #63
Gear Maniac
 
Bosskitty's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshmints ➡️
Very excited about this.
The additional outputs cover the problem I had with the Symphony desktop. Hope the converters were updated too...
What additional outputs are you referring to? It’s 2-In, 4-Out. Main out and HP out.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Technically, Symphony Desktop has more built-in analog outputs than the Duet 3 because of the second headphone out.

Either way, the Duet 3 isn't a proper alternative for anyone seriously in the market for a Symphony Desktop. The scope and depth of each seems to be in a different league entirely; and I use the word "seems" only because I don't have first hand experience with the sound quality of the Duet 3. Disregarding that aspect though, the two devices are still a league apart in their feature set IMO.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieterk ➡️
This is AWESOME!!!!
They were able to add DSP, keep the same price, and improve the design!

The quality is probably insane. Apogee is notoriously slow to release precise specs, but do you know how good the preamps are on Duet?? I can't wait to see what sounds I will be able to get with this.

The breakout cables are just part of the story. This is a backpack device. The dock is a genius upgrade though.

Also, have you heard the ECS Channel Strip DSP? https://youtu.be/pgNeXIyxXl4. No delay or latency while recording with that sound is huge.

This is a pro interface that will change countless artists, producers, mixers, and engineer's lives. I'm so glad Apogee is setting a new bar for themselves and for the industry. To have this kind of package, on iOS, Mac, and PC systems for $599 is incredible! CONGRATS!!!!

I'm definitely upgrading my Element 24. A portable interface with these features, for me is a dream come true.
Unfortunately you and I are left out in the cold by Apogee. They have not updated the Thunderbolt devices and on their website they posted a few months ago July-August for M1 and Big Sur compatibility for Thunderbolt Devices its now mid July and crickets. While they are trumpeting and pushing the Duet 3 and its compatibility.

It looks great and I am happy for the USB3 and 2 device owners finally getting to use the devices with modern Mac OS and M1 machines. I feel I may be saying goodbye to Apogee.

With the end of life statement put out about the Thunderbolt Ensemble( I own) which applies to Element owners as well the writing is on the wall. Move to a different converter before the one you own becomes worthless.

You and I can still sell our devices for decent money to people still currently using older systems but that is going to change quickly. Apogee openly stated they cannot get parts for our devices anymore.

I have been a long time Apogee owner and user but these developments do not bode well on the pro side of things.
UA maybe finally getting my money for an Apollo X8.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
No iOS support, no buy. Apogee is becoming less relevant as time goes by, the rest of the industry has caught up IMO.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c ➡️
No iOS support, no buy. Apogee is becoming less relevant as time goes by, the rest of the industry has caught up IMO.
Yeah, that is kinda weird for such a compact interface, but then again, most of the pro audience (im sure there are some exceptions), doesnt produce on ios. I think Apogee's core audience still is professionals, seeking top tier conversion, and the majority of that audience is in non mobile operating system. I mean their 2x6se makes the competing Lynx, UAD products sound in a much lower league. I think their real problem is slow development to catch up to updating operating systems withing their supported OS lines (mac os big sur still doesnt work on the M1 laptops, in their flagship)
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Yeah, I mean their 2x6se makes the competing Lynx, UAD products sound in a much lower league.
Much lower?

I think the Lynx Aurora n series is easily on par!

The UAD Apollo X range are small step down.

Anyway I'm going off topic. Ignore me.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 ➡️
Much lower?

I think the Lynx Aurora n series is easily on par!

The UAD Apollo X range are small step down.

Anyway I'm going off topic. Ignore me.
Just my opinion. I did say specifically their 2x6 se. Even the regular 8x8 which is a noticeable step down from the 2x6se is more comparable to the lynx hilo (i think hilo > aurora). The Apollo id say is still a small step down from that one. Regardless however, I think apogee's main audience is the same who buys lynx and the top of the line uad units, so it's all perfectly on topic.
I think this duet is to recover a market they had lost a bit of share due to the duet 2 being such an old product (converters improve very fast)

Last edited by nyandres; 2 weeks ago at 04:55 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
jm2c's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Yeah, that is kinda weird for such a compact interface, but then again, most of the pro audience (im sure there are some exceptions), doesnt produce on ios. I think Apogee's core audience still is professionals, seeking top tier conversion, and the majority of that audience is in non mobile operating system. I mean their 2x6se makes the competing Lynx, UAD products sound in a much lower league. I think their real problem is slow development to catch up to updating operating systems withing their supported OS lines (mac os big sur still doesnt work on the M1 laptops, in their flagship)
I admit making music from start to finish on iOS isn't that common. But it'd be a great asset for remote recording. And anyways, I think the name of the game in today's music landscape is platform agnostic music creation, where stuff can be worked fluidly across different devices and different locations.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #71
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The Apollo x series gives the MKII Symphony a serious run for the money. The sound is right there and the specs are better. Its just under the 2x6SE on the DA side and above on the AD.
Now of course those are just specs but I have friends who picked up X4’s because they needed a portable interface and the Symphony Desktop was just not working.

I would say all previous Apollo’s did not compare to the Symphony stuff. I will also say this one could put out a killer recording with the Apollo X , Thunderbolt Ensemble,Symphony MKII .
Honestly Pro’s 15 years ago would have killed for converters that spec’d out like these do and delivered this quality of sound. Not to say older converters sounded terrible but ya there has been quite a bit of advancement in converters not only in quality but in the price for quality.
To the point that one is seriously splitting hairs compared to what we had for conversion back in the day.
I own a Thunderbolt Ensemble have owned it since 2014 when the first came out . Bought it because it was the lowest latency converter on the market at the time via Thunderbolt. Did I lust a Symphony MKII or the SE 2x6 of course. Did I need it to turn out fantastic recordings? Not really. TheThunderbolt Ensembles conversion has never got in the way of me being able to turn out great recordings that people had no problems sound wise. Which tells me we really have reached a diminishing returns point on converters. Use what sounds good to you and get over the specs . No one is going to listen to tracks you have done and say hey man the conversion is just off it sounds terrible. .

Now with all that said we do chase the best sound as engineers tend to do . Though really here and now its getting something that works that seems to be really important. With that Apogee has really fallen down on the Pro side. There is no excuse for them to still be putting out products on USB2 and Thunderbolt 2. UAD has their Thunderbolt ports on cards so if the standard should change to something better or the port design change you can swap the card out. Thats pretty brilliant.
Apogee are you listening? Pandemic excuses aside your competitors seem to be delivering way ahead of you. I saw a former Apogee employee I have known for a long time who stated Apogee is not the company they used to be . Its kinda sad.

Last edited by Dave_Ionic; 2 days ago at 08:14 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Yeah, that is kinda weird for such a compact interface, but then again, most of the pro audience (im sure there are some exceptions), doesnt produce on ios.
Yet their more pro focused desktop interface can work on iOS.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #73
Gear Maniac
 
freshmints's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosskitty ➡️
What additional outputs are you referring to? It’s 2-In, 4-Out. Main out and HP out.
2 more analog outs compared to symphony desktop.
Way easier to reamp guitars/synths and easier to integrate external hardware this way. How would you do that with symphony desktop?

Oh bummer, just checked the feature list again and it’s 4 ins/ 2 outs. How ridiculously stupid to go the same route as with the symphony desktop. Lots of people work hybrid these days, again useless for my way of working...

Last edited by freshmints; 2 weeks ago at 06:35 AM.. Reason: New insight
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshmints ➡️
How would you do that with symphony desktop?
By connecting it to a standalone converter. Unlike the Duet, it has expandable I/O. You can add up to 8 additional inputs and outputs.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Still no M1 support for Symphony I/O, Ensemble, etc but here buy these new prosumer devices with full support from the start!
Old 3 days ago
  #76
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Starting to believe that whole “out in July” bit is a dirty dirty lie.
Old 2 days ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I moved on to a competitor. I wanted to get My M1 Mac Mini rolling so I can sell my 2018 Intel machine before it becomes worthless. Sold my Thunderbolt Ensemble. Got decent money out of hope the new owner gets good use out of it he is running a Intel machine on Mojave or Catalina so he is good as long as he does not update to Big Sur. I told him not too.
Really too bad as I would have probably replaced the Thunderbolt Ensemble with a Symphony MKII but ya I would be dead in the water right if I did that.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatMeckley ➡️
Starting to believe that whole “out in July” bit is a dirty dirty lie.
Maybe something to do with the current chip
shortage? It has affected the entire
electronic audio and musical instrument
industry.
Old 2 days ago
  #79
Lives for gear
 
digital 1010's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I contacted apogee yesterday re my symphony mk1 and updating. Had instant comms and advice re my current configuration and also advised the Fall update for it so i can jump to Big Sur and control 2 software. Good to see them not leaving those devices in the dust but can understand the pain if you're on a new device and Big Sur but maybe as per above post related to chip issues etc.

At least i know my device will be a bit more future proof for OSX updates and Logic X which i use
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
Maybe something to do with the current chip
shortage? It has affected the entire
electronic audio and musical instrument
industry.
The Factory that burned down in Japan was the AKM factory. Apogee uses ESS these days. As does Universal Audio, Motu and probably some other brands I have not listed.
Apogee Thunderbolt Ensembles used ESS Sabre’s . If they can’t get parts its something else in the unit most likely on the analog side.
Yet the problem we are seeing right now is software driver development for compatibility in Thunderbolt and older top line devices for Big Sur and M1 Mac’s.
Also they already have software compatibility on the USB C side for everything else i.e. their lower line devices.
This signals two things to me. One is per their claim Covid has hit them hard and lost software developers. Its not really that big of a company .
Two is because of one they decide to focus on the lower line stuff because it was a bigger market . Is it a well guided decision or a painful one that they had no choice in their eyes profit wise? One can only speculate.

Problem with this is while they focus on that their competitors have managed to make their competing units compatible with Big Sur and Thunderbolt 3 on the M1 Mac’s already.
Now this is not the first time they have let certain products languish. Yet it signals a change at the company. Which like I already posted above rings true Apogee is not the company they used to be.
I have moved on . I hope for others sake that they get something out soon .
Old 2 days ago
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
So my Element 24 is not going to get M1 support?

If this is the case Apogee can go [email protected]£ themselves.

This will be another in a line of products that they’ve unceremoniously dropped. And this following the debacle around the real-time plug-ins for the Element 24, which was - given the hype to sell the units, and the time it took for the platform to be available to the customer - borderline misrepresentation.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #82
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic ➡️
The Factory that burned down in Japan was the AKM factory. Apogee uses ESS these days. As does Universal Audio, Motu and probably some other brands I have not listed.
Apogee Thunderbolt Ensembles used ESS Sabre’s . If they can’t get parts its something else in the unit most likely on the analog side.
Yet the problem we are seeing right now is software driver development for compatibility in Thunderbolt and older top line devices for Big Sur and M1 Mac’s.
Also they already have software compatibility on the USB C side for everything else i.e. their lower line devices.
This signals two things to me. One is per their claim Covid has hit them hard and lost software developers. Its not really that big of a company .
Two is because of one they decide to focus on the lower line stuff because it was a bigger market . Is it a well guided decision or a painful one that they had no choice in their eyes profit wise? One can only speculate.

Problem with this is while they focus on that their competitors have managed to make their competing units compatible with Big Sur and Thunderbolt 3 on the M1 Mac’s already.
Now this is not the first time they have let certain products languish. Yet it signals a change at the company. Which like I already posted above rings true Apogee is not the company they used to be.
I have moved on . I hope for others sake that they get something out soon .
What did you move onto? I really like the sound of the Apogee converters and the modularity of the Symphony MKII. There’s not really anything else on the market that could replace that for me at the moment. It’s just a shame that they put profits over their loyal customers who own their flagship products

It has nothing to do with chip shortage either. They’ve had almost a whole year to release an update meanwhile they released brand new products that don’t have these issues
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage ➡️
So my Element 24 is not going to get M1 support?

If this is the case Apogee can go [email protected]£ themselves.

This will be another in a line of products that they’ve unceremoniously dropped. And this following the debacle around the real-time plug-ins for the Element 24, which was - given the hype to sell the units, and the time it took for the platform to be available to the customer - borderline misrepresentation.
Your Element 24 will get M1 support supposedly some time in the next month or so. Though I believe like the Ensemble Thunderbolt its EOL. Which mean as long as it works your good.
Even with the EOL statement I was going to ride it out because I do like Apogee converters. The Nail in the coffin for me was when I got a deal for a M1 Mac Mini and with all the great results people were getting running Logic and the fact that Avid just announced Pro Tools compatibility I was like time to jump. Sell my Intel Mac Mini hexcore before it becomes worthless. Then I turned on my M1 Mini loaded control and blank screen it did not see the converter so I went to Apogee’s website and there it was dated back in like April May , Thunderbolt compatibility July-August also with listed issues with Big Sur even on Intel Machines. My Intel Machine is on Mojave on purpose.
I was like its mid July not a peep I am done sell the thing.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassbinoctuplets ➡️
What did you move onto? I really like the sound of the Apogee converters and the modularity of the Symphony MKII. There’s not really anything else on the market that could replace that for me at the moment. It’s just a shame that they put profits over their loyal customers who own their flagship products

It has nothing to do with chip shortage either. They’ve had almost a whole year to release an update meanwhile they released brand new products that don’t have these issues
I went with an Apollo x8 uses the same Sabre ADC and DAC that Apogee uses rated at 129DB a weighted. Thats right up there with Symphony MKI and II and beats out my Ensemble TB specs. Plus its the heritage edition so it comes with a bunch of free plug ins and its Thunderbolt 3 connection aka USB Type C connector! I would add it happens to be on a Card so if the Thunderbolt spec should change I can get a new card from UA.
Universal Audio, Motu, Presonus, Focusrite all of them are already Big Sur and Mac M1 compatible . Apogee has seriously dropped the ball.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #85
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic ➡️
The Factory that burned down in Japan was the AKM factory. Apogee uses ESS these days. As does Universal Audio, Motu and probably some other brands I have not listed.
Apogee Thunderbolt Ensembles used ESS Sabre’s .
Universal Audio uses ESS DAC chips but ADC chips from AKM.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by artech909 ➡️
Universal Audio uses ESS DAC chips but ADC chips from AKM.
The ADC sound is where the Apollo X falls somewhat short for my tastes in comparison to the Symphony Mk II ADC.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #87
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Polich ➡️
Maybe something to do with the current chip
shortage? It has affected the entire
electronic audio and musical instrument
industry.
Entirely possible, and hold ups happen, but if that’s the case they should update the website. Purchased a Duet for a project that I’m now going to have to get a refund on.

A total shame, because I far prefer the sound of apogee conversion to UA, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash ➡️
The ADC sound is where the Apollo X falls somewhat short for my tastes in comparison to the Symphony Mk II ADC.
This would be fine if they had compatibility for Big Sur and M1 Macs . As far as the sound the ADC goes I am not sure if there will be a problem it might not be quite as good as the Symphony MKII SE its better than the Thunderbolt Ensemble which sounded great.
Seriously we are splitting hairs either unless one is mastering with these things one can turn out a a great sounding record with any of the ones I listed . If one can’t its not the converters fault.

Apogee is slipping here and nobody can apologize for that fact. Its a fail IMO.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic ➡️
This would be fine if they had compatibility for Big Sur and M1 Macs . As far as the sound the ADC goes I am not sure if there will be a problem it might not be quite as good as the Symphony MKII SE its better than the Thunderbolt Ensemble which sounded great.
Seriously we are splitting hairs either unless one is mastering with these things one can turn out a a great sounding record with any of the ones I listed . If one can’t its not the converters fault.

Apogee is slipping here and nobody can apologize for that fact. Its a fail IMO.
Whether one will consider it quite as good or not is always going to be a subjective matter. It has a professional level sound regardless.

For lead elements, I prefer the sound of any current Symphony product (not just the SE) over the Apollo X because I prefer its style of openness and clarity in that particular case. The Apollo X does have a type of warmth to it that is nice, and that definitely has its uses too. This is based on my personal taste, and doesn't have anything to do with what's right or wrong, or what anyone else should consider for themselves.

It may seem like splitting hairs, and there's no problem with that if that's the way you perceive it, but for me the differences that exist between different pro level converters is an aspect that plays a role in how I create my recording chains. I use different A/D converters, based on the type of sound I'm going for on a particular part. The role the conversion plays in the sound and the outcome thereof isn't a subtle thing for me, and it's actually part of what makes this job so fun. The smaller, and often overlooked details that can make a big difference further down the line in the finished product.
Old 22 hours ago | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
Dave_Ionic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash ➡️
Whether one will consider it quite as good or not is always going to be a subjective matter. It has a professional level sound regardless.

For lead elements, I prefer the sound of any current Symphony product (not just the SE) over the Apollo X because I prefer its style of openness and clarity in that particular case. The Apollo X does have a type of warmth to it that is nice, and that definitely has its uses too. This is based on my personal taste, and doesn't have anything to do with what's right or wrong, or what anyone else should consider for themselves.

It may seem like splitting hairs, and there's no problem with that if that's the way you perceive it, but for me the differences that exist between different pro level converters is an aspect that plays a role in how I create my recording chains. I use different A/D converters, based on the type of sound I'm going for on a particular part. The role the conversion plays in the sound and the outcome thereof isn't a subtle thing for me, and it's actually part of what makes this job so fun. The smaller, and often overlooked details that can make a big difference further down the line in the finished product.
I can appreciate your reasons. I am just getting into the Apollo X8 as I needed compatibility now with the M1 Macs. I was not going to sit on my 2018 Intel Mac Hexcore waiting for Apogee. It has to go out the door if I intend to get the majority of the cash in it back out of it and thats right now. As they are at this moment still retaining their value. Though for the most part that end is in plain site and coming at us like a freight train. Oh and ya it does not hold a candle to my M1 Mini.
Intel Macs will be worthless soon. The M1 machines are so great and the next generation will be off the hook.
Anyways things differ for different reason with people. I wish I could have upgraded to Symphony off the Ensemble but Apogee is making that hard currently.
So I made a choice. I quite possibly could pick up a SE sometime down the road when the drivers are there. They are not now.
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