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Airwindows Mackity: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Put OTT between the stacks
Old 6th April 2021
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for this!
Only feature request would be automatic output compensation, but than can be done in Ableton with Racks.
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #33
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito ➡️
Thanks for this!
Only feature request would be automatic output compensation, but than can be done in Ableton with Racks.
Also a Dry/Wet wouldn't hurt... But that's easy to implement in most DAWs. (And maybe Mackity is best placed on an Aux anyway.)
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Addict
 
Rentzen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbpete ➡️
Are you using Chrome by any chance ? I think there was an update a little while ago that meant downloads from non-HTTPS servers couldn't be grabbed by just left-clicking them. If you right click the link and click 'Save Link As' it'll then download (but once downloaded also complain that it can't be downloaded securely - Just click the ^ arrow to the right of that message and press 'Keep')
Yes, I'm using Chrome Thanks for the helping hand
Old 6th April 2021
  #35
Here for the gear
 
This and my Mackie Blackjack is a great combination
Old 6th April 2021
  #36
Here for the gear
 
This and my Mackie Blackjack is a great combination
Old 6th April 2021
  #37
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Another banger
This man just will not miss
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
how's the aliasing on it?
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Dom & Roland's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
how's the aliasing on it?
While I am also interested, but have no inclination to check, it struck me that this question is a bit like asking a new car owner what the drag coefficient of his new car is?
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom & Roland ➡️
While I am also interested, but have no inclination to check, it struck me that this question is a bit like asking a new car owner what the drag coefficient of his new car is?
Great analogy.

Saw dp4 mentioned, an airwindows dp4 multi fx would be amazing.
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
LASTLAVGH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
how's the aliasing on it?
I feel like you know the answer to this already...
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
I feel like you know the answer to this already...
Have no time yet to check it out, will check later this week, having no good feeling about it....
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
LASTLAVGH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
Have no time yet to check it out, will check later this week, having no good feeling about it....
I just mean to say that Chris doesn't like oversampling and prefers the high sample rate plus ultrasonic filtering. Which obviously doesn't work for everyone.

It all depends on how hard you blast it but it does indeed alias.

I bet Chris could come up with a really effective oversampling implementation if he were so inclined...
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Nut
 
illegal4Hunna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
I just mean to say that Chris doesn't like oversampling and prefers the high sample rate plus ultrasonic filtering. Which obviously doesn't work for everyone.

It all depends on how hard you blast it but it does indeed alias.

I bet Chris could come up with a really effective oversampling implementation if he were so inclined...
I think he's right to avoid oversampling too, oftentimes I prefer plugins with oversampling off and I never found aliasing to be a real-world problem in high quality plugins.
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
LASTLAVGH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illegal4Hunna ➡️
I think he's right to avoid oversampling too, oftentimes I prefer plugins with oversampling off and I never found aliasing to be a real-world problem in high quality plugins.
I don't want to turn this thread into an aliasing debate - and I agree that to a large degree the issue is overblown. However, to be clear - Chris isn't just avoiding oversampling because he thinks it doesn't matter, it's that he prefers to address the issue by working at 96k and using ultrasonic filters. So he's doing it at the project level instead of the plugin level.

Unfortunately, with large amounts of tracks, VIs, or other cpu hungry plugins, and/or with older computers, high sample rates aren't an option for all of us.

The issue of oversampling sounding better or worse may be because of the fact that aliasing in small amounts might actually sound good, or it might be down to the particular methods that a developer is using - of which I know some aren't as good as others. If you are using a lot of non-linear plugins, especially serially, it can build up as a sort of subtle dirtiness. It may not be apparent on a single plugin, but it builds up and I personally prefer oversampling to that.


I think Chris feels that ultimately it's a losing battle, and he's decided that the overall best solution is high sample rate with filtering.

I would love to see oversampling as he might conceive of it though...
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Nut
 
illegal4Hunna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
I don't want to turn this thread into an aliasing debate - and I agree that to a large degree the issue is overblown. However, to be clear - Chris isn't just avoiding oversampling because he thinks it doesn't matter, it's that he prefers to address the issue by working at 96k and using ultrasonic filters. So he's doing it at the project level instead of the plugin level.

Unfortunately, with large amounts of tracks, VIs, or other cpu hungry plugins, and/or with older computers, high sample rates aren't an option for all of us.

The issue of oversampling sounding better or worse may be because of the fact that aliasing in small amounts might actually sound good, or it might be down to the particular methods that a developer is using - of which I know some aren't as good as others. If you are using a lot of non-linear plugins, especially serially, it can build up as a sort of subtle dirtiness. It may not be apparent on a single plugin, but it builds up and I personally prefer oversampling to that.


I think Chris feels that ultimately it's a losing battle, and he's decided that the overall best solution is high sample rate with filtering.

I would love to see oversampling as he might conceive of it though...
When it comes to percussive elements, yeah aliasing can sound great, but it's more that in most cases aliasing is basically nonexistant if you're not blasting the **** out of a nonlinear plugin or if you're using plugins with good quality algorithms. That said I'd love to check out Chris' version of oversampling too just to hear the results.
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #47
Here for the gear
 
Left Wing Gordon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle ➡️
Put OTT between the stacks
What is OTT?

This one rocks hard -- thanks!
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
LASTLAVGH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Wing Gordon ➡️
What is OTT?

This one rocks hard -- thanks!
OTT is a free compressor by Xfer records (makers of Serum) that does both upward and downward compression, instead of just downward like most. It's very popular with EDM producers. Easy to abuse but it's definitely a very unique thing.

https://xferrecords.com/freeware
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #49
Here for the gear
 
Left Wing Gordon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
OTT is a free compressor by Xfer records (makers of Serum) that does both upward and downward compression, instead of just downward like most. It's very popular with EDM producers. Easy to abuse but it's definitely a very unique thing.

https://xferrecords.com/freeware
Excellent, thanks!
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #50
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTLAVGH ➡️
OTT is a free compressor by Xfer records (makers of Serum) that does both upward and downward compression, instead of just downward like most.

https://xferrecords.com/freeware
Originally it's an extreme preset for Ableton's stock multiband compressor/expander though (OTT standing for "over the top", if I remember correctly). Xfer records copied it.
Old 7th April 2021
  #51
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So while I have your attention… can we test something? I can't tell if this will work for other people: it works on my M1 machine.

MackityARM.zip(198k)

I'm having a tough time getting all this working but might finally have a result. This SHOULD be a fully functioning, CODE SIGNED M1 Audio Unit that doesn't contain any Intel code. If it works I'll make more… a LOT more. And there'll be two AU folders to choose from: the first, vintage PPC/Intel32/Intel64 built on the retro machine to work on the entire range of pre-M1 Macs, and the second, modern codesigned M1 AU. (no promises about M1 Mac VST: haven't had any success building it yet)

Anybody who is waiting for Mac M1 support, does this thing work? Is it on? You'll have to reboot for Logic to see it, but it validated in Plugin Manager before the reboot. I just need to know if it will work on other people's machines.
Old 7th April 2021 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
So while I have your attention… can we test something? I can't tell if this will work for other people: it works on my M1 machine.

MackityARM.zip(198k)

I'm having a tough time getting all this working but might finally have a result. This SHOULD be a fully functioning, CODE SIGNED M1 Audio Unit that doesn't contain any Intel code. If it works I'll make more… a LOT more. And there'll be two AU folders to choose from: the first, vintage PPC/Intel32/Intel64 built on the retro machine to work on the entire range of pre-M1 Macs, and the second, modern codesigned M1 AU. (no promises about M1 Mac VST: haven't had any success building it yet)

Anybody who is waiting for Mac M1 support, does this thing work? Is it on? You'll have to reboot for Logic to see it, but it validated in Plugin Manager before the reboot. I just need to know if it will work on other people's machines.
Thanks, nice one Chris. Could you make an old intel AU as well on your new machine? I would love to test just this one here cause of the logic, Ableton, Catalina OSX closing window crash. I don't give up on all possible options here. Thank you
Old 8th April 2021 | Show parent
  #53
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
Thanks, nice one Chris. Could you make an old intel AU as well on your new machine? I would love to test just this one here cause of the logic, Ableton, Catalina OSX closing window crash. I don't give up on all possible options here. Thank you
Huh. That's a good point, I forgot that was happening 'cos it doesn't ever happen to me. And it would get around the 'use Terminal to avoid Gatekeeper' thing. Right now I can't because it seems to have made the M1 version, but when I tell it to make the Intel version the result is not any different? I'm gonna say let me see if the ARM build even works first, OK? Then I gotta figure out how to make a fat binary like I used to do on the old machine. It should have done it just now when I tried, and it did not.
Old 8th April 2021 | Show parent
  #54
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Huh. That's a good point, I forgot that was happening 'cos it doesn't ever happen to me. And it would get around the 'use Terminal to avoid Gatekeeper' thing. Right now I can't because it seems to have made the M1 version, but when I tell it to make the Intel version the result is not any different? I'm gonna say let me see if the ARM build even works first, OK? Then I gotta figure out how to make a fat binary like I used to do on the old machine. It should have done it just now when I tried, and it did not.
Take your time Chris, I´m here to test it on my system as soon you're ready with it.
Old 8th April 2021 | Show parent
  #55
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
Take your time Chris, I´m here to test it on my system as soon you're ready with it.
Actually, try it. I thought it was weird that I told it to build only the M1 version and then it made a rather large binary. I couldn't find any way to look inside and see what architectures it supported. I'm on my Intel-based iMac Pro now, which wasn't supposed to be able to run it, I replaced the official Mackity with the new build, and it ran fine.

It looks very much like XCode ignored everything I repeatedly said about compiling only the M1 version and made a fat binary anyway. That's very bad as far as confirming I have an M1 build, but if it's true it means that you already have what you were asking for. So try it. Looks like it's already ready.

OK, it looks like it ignored everything I put in Build Settings and only cares about what is in the very top bar where the Scheme is set: I tell it 'my Mac' and that's how you make the M1. I thought doing that was telling it to make a local-only build, but apparently that is the only place you can specify the architecture. All the other stuff is about whether it leaves out the one you're not using.

MackityARM.zip(98k) is the M1 version now, I'm about to check whether it doesn't run on my Intel machine. (I have checked, it does not run on my Intel machine and runs on the M1. woot!)

MackityUniversal.zip(198k) is the first one, which you can try to see if it acts differently from the other build. It might be just Logic hurting you, and I can't fix that

Last edited by chrisj; 8th April 2021 at 02:38 AM..
Old 8th April 2021 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
slipper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Actually, try it. I thought it was weird that I told it to build only the M1 version and then it made a rather large binary. I couldn't find any way to look inside and see what architectures it supported. I'm on my Intel-based iMac Pro now, which wasn't supposed to be able to run it, I replaced the official Mackity with the new build, and it ran fine.

It looks very much like XCode ignored everything I repeatedly said about compiling only the M1 version and made a fat binary anyway. That's very bad as far as confirming I have an M1 build, but if it's true it means that you already have what you were asking for. So try it. Looks like it's already ready.

OK, it looks like it ignored everything I put in Build Settings and only cares about what is in the very top bar where the Scheme is set: I tell it 'my Mac' and that's how you make the M1. I thought doing that was telling it to make a local-only build, but apparently that is the only place you can specify the architecture. All the other stuff is about whether it leaves out the one you're not using.

MackityARM.zip(98k) is the M1 version now, I'm about to check whether it doesn't run on my Intel machine. (I have checked, it does not run on my Intel machine and runs on the M1. woot!)

MackityUniversal.zip(198k) is the first one, which you can try to see if it acts differently from the other build. It might be just Logic hurting you, and I can't fix that
Hey Chris, same behaviour as the other one.

Crashing under Logic 10.6.1 & Ableton under Catalina, I guess we have to leave it with Apple but I have no hope as this bug is existing since the launch of Catalina 2.5 yrs ago under Logic 10.5.1 with all non GUI plugins.




My workaround for now is loading all Airwindows AU in Bluecataudio patchwork, working fine no crashes at all.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #57
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipper ➡️
Hey Chris, same behaviour as the other one.

Crashing under Logic 10.6.1 & Ableton under Catalina, I guess we have to leave it with Apple but I have no hope as this bug is existing since the launch of Catalina 2.5 yrs ago under Logic 10.5.1 with all non GUI plugins.

My workaround for now is loading all Airwindows AU in Bluecataudio patchwork, working fine no crashes at all.
Thanks for checking, and bringing it to my attention: that would've been a good workaround if it'd worked.

It sounds like if I can get someone with an M1 to test that the M1-only build works for them (and the certificate is right, etc) then I have a process I can apply to the whole collection, and I'll be off and running. I've been doing some of the tedious preparation stuff anyway, that I know I'll need to do whatever the process turns out to be.

I'm going with pre-M1 and post-M1 builds, then: the Intel continues to be the PPC-capable, 32-bit-capable, legacy builds I'm making on the older machine running 10.6.8. That's going to continue. But if the new builds are right and correct, I'll be posting (on GitHub) my process for making dedicated Apple Silicon builds out of the source Snow Leopard builds, step by step, and also posting the new source code directly. They will be code signed and not require hacks in Gatekeeper, and I'll bifurcate all of Macdom into pre-M1 (for which I think you should use earlier versions of MacOS that don't require Gatekeeper, the optimal version for whatever machine you're using) and post-M1 (which requires Big Sur or later, and may or may not require an iPhone-like sticking to an upgrade path: depends on how hard Apple forces people to do that)
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #58
LiquidSonics
 
liquidsonics's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Actually, try it. I thought it was weird that I told it to build only the M1 version and then it made a rather large binary. I couldn't find any way to look inside and see what architectures it supported.
To find out what architectures a fat binary has been compiled for try:
lipo -info /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity

For your universal:
Architectures in the fat file: /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity are: x86_64 arm64

For your ARM only:
Non-fat file: /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity is architecture: arm64
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #59
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidsonics ➡️
To find out what architectures a fat binary has been compiled for try:
lipo -info /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity

For your universal:
Architectures in the fat file: /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity are: x86_64 arm64

For your ARM only:
Non-fat file: /Users/matt/Desktop/tmp/Mackity.component/Contents/MacOS/Mackity is architecture: arm64
Cool, thank you.

Things are moving quickly. I've now got one guy on another forum, who's not familar with Mac very much and has a new M1, who's using the ARM build and it works. But, he had to go through Security & Privacy, which means the code signing part did NOT work.

Anybody here confirming that? Either part; that the ARM builds work, and/or that it's not code signing yet? I'm not done until the code signing that I literally paid Apple to do, is working. My next move is to bug Apple itself via their developer program, since whatever I'm doing is not what they want me to do. I am a legit Mac dev for over fifteen years and I paid for the certs, so I should be able to use them for their intended purpose.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #60
LiquidSonics
 
liquidsonics's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj ➡️
Cool, thank you.

Things are moving quickly. I've now got one guy on another forum, who's not familar with Mac very much and has a new M1, who's using the ARM build and it works. But, he had to go through Security & Privacy, which means the code signing part did NOT work.

Anybody here confirming that? Either part; that the ARM builds work, and/or that it's not code signing yet? I'm not done until the code signing that I literally paid Apple to do, is working. My next move is to bug Apple itself via their developer program, since whatever I'm doing is not what they want me to do. I am a legit Mac dev for over fifteen years and I paid for the certs, so I should be able to use them for their intended purpose.
I think you're going to be better off also using an installer (try Packages) and notarising the installer. I know, it's agro, but otherwise there could be all sorts of little security gotchas on this journey.
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