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Using video footage to practise composing...
Old 14th April 2018
  #1
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Using video footage to practise composing...

Some great info here from a valued and knowledgeable source. you know who you are ...

While usually copying other copywritten work is illegal using a video clip for demonstration purposes can be covered under Fair Use if several criteria are met...

1) the video is for educational purposes only
2) the video is "non-profit" meaning it is not monetized online in any way.

With Youtube Content ID being what it is... Youtube allows the original copyright holder of the visuals to monetize your non-monetized videos... this is how the cover songs on youtube work, like Jess Greenberg's (she does not monetize her videos and has not made a single penny from any of them). The copyright holders of the original music, can attach youtube ads and adrev ads to new use of their materials and make money from YOUR video that is using their copyrights. That is technically how licensing music works anyway, and most big copyright holders do not go after small time people posting videos. Instead they monetize the videos and while they don't make that much off any single video... it all adds up quickly. If you have several million people using clips from your shows, claiming fair use... and you can then monetize their use of your videos for yourself... even if every video only makes you $2~$3 total in ad revenue, you just make $2mil to $3mil from it!!!

As more companies figure this out... you will start to see more and more of this sort of thing. If you yourself try to monetize an already copywritten piece of intellectual property, your video will be blocked and you will get a cease and desist. But if you aren't monetizing it, you will probably eventually start to see youtube ads and adrev ads popping up on your video... and that is the original copyright owner capitalizing on your use of their intellectual property.

Last edited by narcoman; 17th April 2018 at 09:55 PM..
Old 16th April 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
If you use it to email an individual for soliciting a gig, is that fair use or monetizing?
Old 17th April 2018 | Show parent
  #3
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino321 ➡️
If you use it to email an individual for soliciting a gig, is that fair use or monetizing?
That is not fair use.
Old 17th April 2018 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️
That is not fair use.
How inconvenient. I wonder if there are sources to license short videos for this purpose.
Old 17th April 2018
  #5
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
Some great info here from a valued and knowledgeable source. you know who you are ...

While usually copying other copywritten work is illegal using a video clip for demonstration purposes can be covered under Fair Use if several criteria are met...

1) the video is for educational purposes only
2) the video is "non-profit" meaning it is not monetized online in any way.
3) the video is used for criticism, and commentary
4) the video is used for news reporting
5) the video is used for research
6) the video is a parody

Also worthy to note - the original author should be quoted, tho I am not sure if that is part of the law.

*This applies to the USA FUD; other jurisdictions may have some variances.


Cheers.

Last edited by Jeff Hayat; 17th April 2018 at 10:11 PM..
Old 17th April 2018 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️

3) the video is used for criticism, and commentary

Cheers.
This could be useful.
Old 18th April 2018 | Show parent
  #7
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Etch-A-Sketch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino321 ➡️
If you use it to email an individual for soliciting a gig, is that fair use or monetizing?
If you make a video and ONLY email it to someone else there is no way anyone will ever know you made the video so it's a moot point.

If you post a video online publicly "for educational purposes". And then you email a link to that video there is no problem because the video is still covered under fair use no different than someone emailing a link to a news story.
Old 18th April 2018 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch ➡️
If you make a video and ONLY email it to someone else there is no way anyone will ever know you made the video so it's a moot point.

If you post a video online publicly "for educational purposes". And then you email a link to that video there is no problem because the video is still covered under fair use no different than someone emailing a link to a news story.
Well this is a very different opinion. If I email a video to an individual such as a music director for a film or film company a video re-scored with my music, that would be A) Fair Use and B) The music director will not perceive it as unethical?

Also, are you saying that I could re-score a video with my music and post it online and that would be considered fair use (and would be viewed as such)?

Very different scenerios here (which I like much much better ). Anyone else like to chime in on this?
Old 18th April 2018 | Show parent
  #9
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino321 ➡️
This could be useful.
Not if you are using a vid for the purpose of soliciting gigs it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino321 ➡️
If I email a video to an individual such as a music director for a film or film company a video re-scored with my music, that would be A) Fair Use and B) The music director will not perceive it as unethical?
A) as stated - this is not fair use. You are saying to the person on the receiving end, "here is what I can do - hire me!" So, while you are not profiting off of that vid directly, you are using it to gain employment. This is not what Fu was set up for.

B) Not everyone will, but it's real easy to imagine that most would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino321 ➡️
Also, are you saying that I could re-score a video with my music and post it online and that would be considered fair use?
Again - using other people's (or company's) intellectual property for your own gain is not FU.

Cheers.
Old 18th April 2018 | Show parent
  #10
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch ➡️
If you make a video and ONLY email it to someone else there is no way anyone will ever know you made the video so it's a moot point.
True, but that does not make it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch ➡️
If you post a video online publicly "for educational purposes". And then you email a link to that video there is no problem because the video is still covered under fair use no different than someone emailing a link to a news story.
Not if it is someone else's video (which is, I am pretty sure, what dino is talking about) - no it's not ok.

Lets be clear here - using a vid that someone else created for the purpose of soliciting gigs on your own behalf is in no way "educational".

Cheers.
Old 19th April 2018 | Show parent
  #11
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Etch-A-Sketch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️

Again - using other people's (or company's) intellectual property for your own gain is not FU.
It is though... news stations and documentaries do it all the time. New stations make money from the stories they run, and the video and music they use they don't pay for. Same with most documentaries.

And making a news story using Fair Use, if it is good, will lead to you landing more news work... so you are using fair use to secure future employment. same thing with documentaries. If the producer/director of a documentary does a great job, their use of Fair Use will land them future work.

It's all about framing the context. If you post a video saying "Here is what I can do, hire me..." Then that isn't fair use.

If you post a video saying "I am always looking to hone my craft and so I am posting my re-score of this video for educational purposes" then it's Fair Use. And then when you send someone a link to that video that might potentially want to hire you, it is still fair use.

When you are at a school and you are allowed to use a scene from a famous movie to rescore for educational purposes... you ARE allowed to use that on your demo reel... because it is/was for educational purposes.

Plus... and probably more importantly... you are not making any money directly from the use of the film clip... future employment has no bearing on fair use. A license grants the user the right to monetize their use of that specific clip only. If I license a piece of music and cut visuals to it for a commercial trailer, I don't have to go back and pay the original music owner an additional license when someone sees what I did and hires me to do new one, do I? No. But I got the gig from using that composer's intellectual property!

And that is the issue... it is solely based on monetizing the content itself. Not on future work that will use other content. If you are not monetizing the current content itself and you are creating someone for educational purposes... then it falls under fair use and you can share the link.
Old 25th April 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
 
guinea's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've always thought if I had to rescore something, at least I would do it with style: YouTube

Rescore something like Horror Dumbo... Maybe DumBOOO, put it on YouTube, spread the word and if you go viral it's all free advertising in your pocket.
Old 16th February 2021
  #13
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Desire Inspires's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
They sell a lot of good video clips at sites like Pond5. Try scoring over some of those clips. The purchase helps out a fellow creative artist.
Old 24th February 2021
  #14
Here for the gear
 
Using Video Clips

Would it be Fair Use to put the Youtube video on a personal website, rescore the music and solicit the appropriate production people? The video would be labeled "for demonstration only". There would be no monetization whatsoever as the point would solely be the demonstration of how the music works.

I suspect this would fall outside fair use but I wanted to knock around the idea.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #15
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drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertj64 ➡️
Would it be Fair Use to put the Youtube video on a personal website, rescore the music and solicit the appropriate production people? The video would be labeled "for demonstration only". There would be no monetization whatsoever as the point would solely be the demonstration of how the music works.

I suspect this would fall outside fair use but I wanted to knock around the idea.
Is it fair use and OK for me to borrow your car for a few days? I won't be making any money with it.
Old 27th February 2021 | Show parent
  #16
Here for the gear
 
Lol...point taken.
Old 23rd March 2021
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
SkyStudios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You always should send a private youtube link, its ok to post a video with a link but if you make it public youtube and the DMCA will flag it for infringement.

Im now past this and thinking of making a video reel like you so i can show off how i compose to picture and most importantly how the music will glue each scene.

My question is what type of scenes, i imagine drama, action, scenic, intimate etc
Old 23rd March 2021 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
SkyStudios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️
Not if you are using a vid for the purpose of soliciting gigs it's not.


A) as stated - this is not fair use.
B) Not everyone will, but it's real easy to imagine that most would.

Again - using other people's (or company's) intellectual property for your own gain is not FU.

Cheers.
You are exaggerating all this, its neither fair use or copyright related., its a demo reel of the composer using videos (most notably very recent videos, films etc) its not been monetized, sold and nothing un ethical about it., i know people who edit video in Hollywood now and they use parts of the most recent movies, tv shows etc, even dubbed the voices and sound effects before handing them to composers., im trying to pick material this way as i type.

in fact a director looking for a composer who can glue scenes will be more then glad to hire a composer that good, especially composers who can glue bad scenes together with music to avoid shooting again.

Ask them if they care, it appears that your more concerned about it then they are...

Last edited by SkyStudios; 23rd March 2021 at 02:20 PM..
Old 23rd March 2021 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyStudios ➡️
You are exaggerating all this, its neither fair use or copyright related., its a demo reel of the composer using videos (most notably very recent videos, films etc) its not been monetized, sold and nothing un ethical about it., i know people who edit video in Hollywood now and they use parts of the most recent movies, tv shows etc, even dubbed the voices and sound effects before handing them to composers., im trying to pick material this way as i type.

in fact a director looking for a composer who can glue scenes will be more then glad to hire a composer that good, especially composers who can glue bad scenes together with music to avoid shooting again.

Ask them if they care, it appears that your more concerned about it then they are...

I need to borrow your car for a few days. It's not an exaggeration. I need to show people that will pay me money to drive their car that I CAN actually drive. They don't care that I don't have a car of my own - I can steal or borrow a car - they don't care they just want to see me drive. I will stay off public roads, and I won't be doing any paid deliveries or $#[email protected] like that. Please forward the address of your garage and leave the keys on the dash. I know people who do this all the time, so it's OK. Trust me. No really.....trust me.
Old 25th March 2021 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
SkyStudios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill ➡️
I need to borrow your car for a few days. It's not an exaggeration. I need to show people that will pay me money to drive their car that I CAN actually drive. They don't care that I don't have a car of my own - I can steal or borrow a car - they don't care they just want to see me drive. I will stay off public roads, and I won't be doing any paid deliveries or $#[email protected] like that. Please forward the address of your garage and leave the keys on the dash. I know people who do this all the time, so it's OK. Trust me. No really.....trust me.
Not the same thing at all, a non solicited none commercially used demo does not infringe anyone’s copyrights, show a judge how much money you made from it, its perfectly legal to use content to demonstrate your skills be it video editing, snd fx to picture, composing music etc as long as you do not make it public.

Go see an attorney and stop the BS about borrowing a car when someone agrees to give you their keys and you have a drivers license., and yes you can barrow or rent a car to lets say “show off your driving skills” as long as you respect the agreement and are insured..
but seriously, The only ppl talking like this are those scared some young talented person will expose them for getting a gig by giving Harvey Weinstein a hand job., not saying your i secure, just making the point that your info is incorrect as there are tons of video editors, voice over actors, snd and music composers to picture using the latest films or even rough copies of un released footage to new movies., they show their reels in person or share a private link.

Last edited by SkyStudios; 25th March 2021 at 03:04 AM..
Old 25th March 2021
  #21
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
OK. You got me.
@ Jeff Hayat and I are just scared.



PS - Directors are kinda funny when it comes to their creative works. IME, they are pretty sensitive about someone using their works without permission and/or changing the direction of their vision by editing or changing things in any fashion. And here you are, showing up looking for a gig from them - all the while using someone else's film - obviously without permission. (Cause we both know it's virtually impossible to get.)

Beyond dancing around the legalities with excuses and claiming it's OK because of what other people do, you might want to consider how you come off to a professional you're trying to work for. I'll let you answer that one for yourself.

Last edited by drBill; 27th March 2021 at 04:45 AM..
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