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TC 4000 REVERB VS PHOENIXVERB & RELAB LX480.which option is better?
Old 6th February 2015 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retinal ➑️
OP if you haven't yet, try SSL X-Verb (coded by Relab btw)
This. Own it and love it. Didn't know who coded it though!
Old 6th February 2015 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc ➑️
This. Own it and love it. Didn't know who coded it though!
..the same programmer who programmed the lx480..
Old 6th February 2015
  #63
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
TC 4000 has alot of different algorithms, but I would imagine that you talk about the VSS4 algorithm - right?

I can only speak of the TC 6000 VSS4 version, but it's quite difficult (and in many situations impossible) to match any of the plugins to the VSS4 algorithm since it has a more complex filter setup (4 bands vs 3 bands) and it can change the behaviour of the filters. The VSS4 also have a way more evolved ER engine compared to plugins. It's easier to match the VSS4 algorithm (you deactivate many of the functions) to most plugins when we only talk about the actual reverb tail - but it has a wider tail than most plugins, although the LX480 can be wider at larger (max) sizes.
Old 7th February 2015 | Show parent
  #64
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
TC 4000 has alot of different algorithms, but I would imagine that you talk about the VSS4 algorithm - right?

I can only speak of the TC 6000 VSS4 version, but it's quite difficult (and in many situations impossible) to match any of the plugins to the VSS4 algorithm since it has a more complex filter setup (4 bands vs 3 bands) and it can change the behaviour of the filters. The VSS4 also have a way more evolved ER engine compared to plugins. It's easier to match the VSS4 algorithm (you deactivate many of the functions) to most plugins when we only talk about the actual reverb tail - but it has a wider tail than most plugins, although the LX480 can be wider at larger (max) sizes.
it is nice that great programmers-developers participate in this discussion!really thanks for your sincere answer-opinion regarding tc4000 and plugins... although you design plugins !

yes i think iam mostly interested for the vss4 algo although i haven't heard any of tc4000's algos but from what i've read it seems that the vss4 is the most interesting and quality algo..

why it is difficult for plugin developers to make more complex, 4 band filter setups?
finally,tell me something other please...have you heard exponetial audio plugins?
Old 7th February 2015
  #65
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
It's not difficult to implement a more complex filter system (4+ bands) at all - it's just not been done for various reasons. The TC algorithms are also the only ones in the hardware domain that have 4 bands that I know of. It obviously give you greater flexibility with more parameters - in this case it can alter the reverb tail considerably.

I know the Exponential Audio reverbs.
Old 7th February 2015 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
It's not difficult to implement a more complex filter system (4+ bands) at all - it's just not been done for various reasons. The TC algorithms are also the only ones in the hardware domain that have 4 bands that I know of. It obviously give you greater flexibility with more parameters - in this case it can alter the reverb tail considerably.

I know the Exponential Audio reverbs.
so...if we forget the more parameters of the tc algo,what's your opinion if we compare it with exponetial reverbs regarding only the sound?
Old 7th February 2015
  #67
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
If you mean we deactivate the additional features and remove the ER engine? If so, then the question was answered in my first post - VSS4 has more envelopment/spaciousness than most plugins. If left and right channel summed to mono creates a very colored sound then so will the VSS4 tail.

Last edited by Warp69; 8th February 2015 at 01:18 PM..
Old 10th February 2015 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
If you mean we deactivate the additional features and remove the ER engine? If so, then the question was answered in my first post - VSS4 has more envelopment/spaciousness than most plugins. If left and right channel summed to mono creates a very colored sound then so will the VSS4 tail.

Ok..thanks for your extra infos..
it seems that vss4 algo is one of your favorite...
what about ambiator and rev4 algos??have you heard them?
Old 10th February 2015 | Show parent
  #69
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stergios ➑️
what about ambiator and rev4 algos??have you heard them?
Nope - they don't exist on the S6000. Maybe Reflector (S6000) and Ambiator is somehow related?! Reflector is an Early Reflection engine like the one on Powercore and Logic.
Old 11th February 2015 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
Nope - they don't exist on the S6000. Maybe Reflector (S6000) and Ambiator is somehow related?! Reflector is an Early Reflection engine like the one on Powercore and Logic.
i don't know if ambiator and reflector are related...
sound on sound has a review of the tc4000 and editor's opinion for the ambiator :
''The Ambiator algorithm is designed to replicate the acoustics of natural environments. The user is presented with options to select the room size, type and surface material, plus a nominal position within that room. It is therefore a useful tool for helping to add a credible acoustic environment on individual close-miked sources.''
Old 2nd September 2016
  #71
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Any new insights on how the Exponentisl Audio verbs match up Tina TC4000?
What did the OP get and why?
Old 2nd September 2016
  #72
Gear Guru
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stergios ➑️
hi..


the last days i've spent a lot of time testing and auditioning software reverbs.

I own lot of them:

-uad lexicon 224
-uad emt 140
-uad realverb pro
-valhalla vintage verb
-valhalla room
-lexicon pcm
-waves trueverb
-acon verberate
-2c b2 and aether (demo)
-oxford reverb native
-sir2 with many many impulses fro mthe best hardware units and real rooms-places.
-hardware lexicon pcm 70





Do you think that i still need a hi end hardware reverb?i cannot afford bricasti right now so please don't even suggest it to me

i can afford a used tc4000 that i found for about 650 euros.
My dilemma is if this tc reverb is a better option than phoenixverb and relab lx480 complete (maybe and r2) which ll cost me about the same...

i know that many topics are here in gearslutz regarding the battle ''hardware reverbs vs plugins'' ...i have the impression that phoenixverb and relab lx480 are probably the best options for reverb in the box but...can they be as great as a tc4000 can be??maybe tc4000 is not as great as i think?i don't have the opportunity to test it ,that's why i post this topic.
.....do you think that any of the reverbs i own can compete them?


The next days iam going to post in another thread some good samples (drums,ac.gtr,harp and maybe perc. ) with all the reverbs i mentioned (except for the tc4000) for a blind test and comparison between all those plugins

**i'd appreciate if someone can send me samples from the tc4000
Buy waves emt plate and you're good forever with your collection!
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Guru
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey ➑️
The strength of VSS3 and VSS4 is the early reflections. I think in this regard they have an advantage over some of the plugins you have and have mentioned. So if you are trying to create a sense of a medium sized room from a dry recording, these would be a slightly better choice.

However if your recording is made in a good live space and you already have a good room sound then there is little advantage to the TC solutions over say Pheonix when you are primarily looking to add a tail to your existing room.

In fact Pheonix may be preferable to you as the VSS algorithms sum your stereo signal to mono to create the tail (but not the early reflections). This can add coloration in the tail that Pheonix will not on stereo sources.

Having said that, after listening very carefully to all the algs that you have and have discussed (yes all), I would stay with convolution if you are mainly interested in adding a room to your dry recording. The reason is that even though they may not sound exciting, the lower level of coloration in the earliest portion of the reverb will let you get a good room sound quickly.

I used to use the Sony 777 convolution box and I found that I would just use one or two studio presets for early reflections and then add a tail using the Lexicon 960. So finding just one or two great convolution "rooms" would be my goal.

Then you can add in more interesting tails using Pheonix/R2 or the LX480. Just make sure to turn the early reflections on these secondary tail reverbs off.



-Casey
Stacking verbs is a great trick!
Old 16th April 2020 | Show parent
  #74
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
PhoenixVerb $9.99!!

on AudioDeluxe...
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