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How complex is your DAW routing
Old 12th March 2014
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
How complex is your DAW routing

Often, I routinely create a whole bunch of sub busses that I send to other sub busses etc, etc...


For example, in deeply layered mixes, I might create sub busses for vocals and guitars, then buss them yet into another grouped bus for additional compression and equing. This way, I often get more natural results then just bussing all my subs into the master channel.


A friend engineer, recently saw my set up and commented that it was way too complex, hence my question: How complex are your routing schemes in complicated/challenging mixes?
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Usually one layer of submix but sometimes 2 layers like yourself. Usually for large track counts only.
Old 12th March 2014
  #3
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Spede's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The more I've mixed over the years, the less I seem to use any kind of subgroup processing. Nowadays I only seem to do drum subgroup for parallel compression in certain genres (but not for example in hip hop) and I might submix some tracks if there's like 12 backing vocal tracks which do a "single thing" (like "doo"s). Otherwise things stand on their own, get compressed individually and routed to main output for me. Even with 150+ tracks. In DAW it's very easy to copy/paste send settings for many tracks. I do quite a lot of rides for everything to make them sit nicely. Lots of labor yes, but I feel in the end I get better results than say, compressing subgroups.
Old 12th March 2014
  #4
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
about a dozen sub-groups (i.e.: drums, basses, guitars, keys, vocals, B-vox, and FX ...) and then as some of what Spede says I mix (rides) within those sub-groups so everything sits and a little Comp on each group (like each group is a master of sorts ... then to a master output ... but thats just me .. i remember that 12 tracks per group used to be the max in PTHD that would sound good to me .. more than 12 and it would smear a little .. my .02 if i only had a few tracks then probably not
Old 12th March 2014
  #5
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JAZJETSON's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I try to keep it Pretty simple. Just a few busses but more groups then busses
Old 12th March 2014
  #6
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Very advanced, complexity aligned to medium. I engage multiple entire DAW setups for a single production/song. The low end DAW setup is very simple and aligned towards distortion, with only an L+R mix. The high end DAW setup is very complex and aligned towards resonance, with L mix, R mix and L+R mix. I have approached these DAWs entirely differently in terms of their permanent default tuning in order to maximize the frequency acceleration potential of combining the two. For me this works great because all gear that I do not like ends up in the low end DAW setup, and all gear that I love ends up in the high end DAW setup. For instance I use the RME Fireface 800 in the low end DAW and the PrismSound Orpheus in the high end DAW. Adding DAWs to your production platform is like adding new sound dimensions to your production. It makes your productions come alive.

My goal is to have three extremely capable DAWs that together can express the whole polarity range at maximum strength levels, with a plus polarity DAW, a neutral polarity DAW and a minus polarity DAW. This enables productions with both short dramatic- and long smooth frequency acceleration/polarity shifts.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #7
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
Very advanced, complexity aligned to medium. I engage multiple entire DAW setups for a single production/song. The low end DAW setup is very simple and aligned towards distortion, with only an L+R mix. The high end DAW setup is very complex and aligned towards resonance, with L mix, R mix and L+R mix. I have approached these DAWs entirely differently in terms of their permanent default tuning in order to maximize the frequency acceleration potential of combining the two. For me this works great because all gear that I do not like ends up in the low end DAW setup, and all gear that I love ends up in the high end DAW setup. For instance I use the RME Fireface 800 in the low end DAW and the PrismSound Orpheus in the high end DAW. Adding DAWs to your production platform is like adding new sound dimensions to your production. It makes your productions come alive.

My goal is to have three extremely capable DAWs that together can express the whole polarity range at maximum strength levels, with a plus polarity DAW, a neutral polarity DAW and a minus polarity DAW. This enables both short dramatic- and long smooth frequency acceleration/polarity shifts.
Uh, what?
Old 12th March 2014
  #8
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
i think i follow that ... low end being samplers and such and high end being audio recordings of live players .. or maybe not ? haha
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface ➑️
Uh, what?
We are now entering a music era when entire production setups undergo full blown realtime tuning, basically going from single dimension music productions expressing a single core music scale to multi dimension music productions expressing multiple core music scales, together with a DNA upgrade it is just perfect because it allows for more precise tuning and scaling of dimensions, boosting overall frequency acceleration to new levels. A sun cloud is now moving with an incredible speed towards the core of our galaxy, this I predict will bring about some kind of really advanced DNA upgrade. Right now our own star is bursting certain intelligence waves that bring about dramatic changes to our world. I believe that our universe is in an accelerating alignment process towards completion.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
Very advanced, complexity aligned to medium. I engage multiple entire DAW setups for a single production/song. The low end DAW setup is very simple and aligned towards distortion, with only an L+R mix. The high end DAW setup is very complex and aligned towards resonance, with L mix, R mix and L+R mix. I have approached these DAWs entirely differently in terms of their permanent default tuning in order to maximize the frequency acceleration potential of combining the two. For me this works great because all gear that I do not like ends up in the low end DAW setup, and all gear that I love ends up in the high end DAW setup. For instance I use the RME Fireface 800 in the low end DAW and the PrismSound Orpheus in the high end DAW. Adding DAWs to your production platform is like adding new sound dimensions to your production. It makes your productions come alive.

My goal is to have three extremely capable DAWs that together can express the whole polarity range at maximum strength levels, with a plus polarity DAW, a neutral polarity DAW and a minus polarity DAW. This enables productions with both short dramatic- and long smooth frequency acceleration/polarity shifts.
Ermm ..... Nice to know? I think?
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
We are now entering a music era when entire production setups undergo full blown realtime tuning, basically going from single dimension music productions expressing a single core music scale to multi dimension music productions expressing multiple core music scales, together with a DNA upgrade it is just perfect. A sun cloud is now moving with an incredible speed towards the core of our galaxy, this I predict will bring about some kind of really advanced DNA upgrade. Right now our own star is bursting certain intelligence waves that bring about dramatic changes to our world.
Right on
Old 12th March 2014
  #12
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
LOL ... thats classic ... you had me going for a moment ..
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
We are now entering a music era when entire production setups undergo full blown realtime tuning, basically going from single dimension music productions expressing a single core music scale to multi dimension music productions expressing multiple core music scales, together with a DNA upgrade it is just perfect. A sun cloud is now moving with an incredible speed towards the core of our galaxy, this I predict will bring about some kind of really advanced DNA upgrade. Right now our own star is bursting certain intelligence waves that bring about dramatic changes to our world.
Bring it, Smooth, bring it.
Old 13th March 2014
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
After watching the james lugo ssl videos on youtube i figured out how to do the multibuss brauer thing in logic with full automation. Its pretty complex but lots of things are hidden for a simple view thats easy to interact with. I dont think of it as a submix workflow its more of a multiple output buss mindset.

Whats funny is that i have a stripped down version of this template that i use more often that seems to work just as well with less layers. So i guess whatever complexity gets you the results youre looking for with the most natural mind set is the way to go. I do worry about phasing with parallel busses going but if it sounds good i guess i dont care if its happening or not.
Old 13th March 2014
  #15
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spurratic's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I run a template in Reaper where my session starts up as 24 tracks and 8 subgroups......kind of like a console.
I try to model the flow I used to have in a board, it both reminds me to keep things within 24 channels, and when I mix it keeps me from over-tweaking. I just set the labels and do my mixing through the 8 subgroups....(drums, keys, bass, rhythm guitars, leads, percussion, vocals, effects). I hope to eventually add an 8ch control surface to do my mixing on......just to bring things back to simplicity where I focused on the big picture and didn't spend time pushing 60 faders around.

I rarely do parallel compression, just add effects and compression to the subgroups.

Then someday that will transition to an 8ch board, and then someday to a 24ch board with 8 subgroups and I will be back to the format I miss.

I don't know if any other feel the same as me but i feel that emulating the workflow I hope to have one day (the 24x8x2 console) helps me keep a consistent workflow, and that allows me to just focus on the music.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface ➑️
Uh, what?
There is a reason why most of us have SmoothVibe on the ignore list.
Old 13th March 2014
  #17
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Funny Cat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is the most fun thread I've read in a long time. I've been smiling - borderline laughing the whole time.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #18
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Funny Cat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaNce144 ➑️
There is a reason why most of us have SmoothVibe on the ignore list.
what fun is that?
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat ➑️
This is the most fun thread I've read in a long time. I've been smiling - borderline laughing the whole time.
Haha, good to hear!
Old 13th March 2014
  #20
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok, back to reality. I tend to just group things. Guitars get a certain treatment, bass, vocals, backup vocals, kick, snare, oh's & room start off separate to their own groups, but many times I'll create one more for them. Sometimes kick and snare get another. Sometimes all the drums go to a compressor on a send. I know, that's not the way to really do parallel compression or even wet/dry compression, but I get reminiscent and desirable results and it's much quicker. To each his own.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik ➑️
Ok, back to reality. I tend to just group things. Guitars get a certain treatment, bass, vocals, backup vocals, kick, snare, oh's & room start off separate to their own groups, but many times I'll create one more for them. Sometimes kick and snare get another. Sometimes all the drums go to a compressor on a send. I know, that's not the way to really do parallel compression or even wet/dry compression, but I get reminiscent and desirable results and it's much quicker. To each his own.
Interesting. A technique I have just started playing with is splitting tracks by the use of multiband compressors instead of EQs, with the aim of creating cleaner crossovers that way.
Old 13th March 2014
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
somewhere between absurd and rediculous.....

Templates are my answer ;-)
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #23
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaNce144 ➑️
There is a reason why most of us have SmoothVibe on the ignore list.
I was just thinking I wanted to add him to my favorites list
Old 13th March 2014
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
Richard Salino's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It just keeps coming. Every thread. It's really something.

Routing depends entirely on what I want to accomplish. For a typical rock mix, drums tend to be bussed. If I have multiple bass signals (DI, amp), I might bus those if I want to compress or EQ them together, or I might not if I want to treat the two signals individually. Guitars tend not to be bussed together because I prefer the soundstage when they're left wild. I do automate them a fair amount to get them sitting where I want. LD vox is on its own, and bkg vocals tend to be bussed together and treated as a group (EQ, compression, effects, etc.). Effects returns tend to float. Everything hits the master bus and is compressed, and that's it.

For me, it depends on whether I want to treat something as a group or not. If I'm just looking for a way to ride levels, I'll use a VCA.
Old 13th March 2014
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Eevi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I usually have the following drum buses:

- toms
- overheads
- drum room

All these and the rest of individual drums go to a general Drum Bus. Sometimes I also have a parallel compression bus for the drums as well.

Guitars, Bass (if DI AND mics were recorded), Vocals, BVocals, effects (distortion, reverb, delay) - all these have their own buses routed to the master.
Old 13th March 2014
  #26
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Glamdring's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For me it's pretty detailed.

I have sub groups, with every track in my productions being piped into one of the following:

Kicks (goes to Drums)
Snares (goes to Drums)
Drums
Perc
Bass
Synths
Pads
Keys
Guitars
Lead Vocals
Background Vocals

Also, fx returns sub groups. Useful to keep these separate !

Reverbs
Delays
FX (chorus, dist etc)

All these sub groups then get split into a further 8 channel submit consisting of:

Rhythm Section
All Music
All Vocals
All Returns

These are then sent to my mix buss.

These layers give me a great deal of control and flexibility and allow me to try different balances very quickly without having to go back to track level. Good way to keep track of gain staging as well. I'm in PT11.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring ➑️
For me it's pretty detailed.

I have sub groups, with every track in my productions being piped into one of the following:

Kicks (goes to Drums)
Snares (goes to Drums)
Drums
Perc
Bass
Synths
Pads
Keys
Guitars
Lead Vocals
Background Vocals

Also, fx returns sub groups. Useful to keep these separate !

Reverbs
Delays
FX (chorus, dist etc)

All these sub groups then get split into a further 8 channel submit consisting of:

Rhythm Section
All Music
All Vocals
All Returns

These are then sent to my mix buss.

These layers give me a great deal of control and flexibility and allow me to try different balances very quickly without having to go back to track level. Good way to keep track of gain staging as well. I'm in PT11.

This workflow makes sense to me. Also, one of the reasons I started this thread , is because I was curious to find out how many people using michael brauer's multi-buss routing.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #28
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timtoonz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurratic ➑️
I run a template in Reaper where my session starts up as 24 tracks and 8 subgroups......kind of like a console.
I try to model the flow I used to have in a board, it both reminds me to keep things within 24 channels, and when I mix it keeps me from over-tweaking..
That's fairly similar to my default Logic template. Eight busses (lead vocals, backing vox, guitars, drums, percussion, keys, orchestra/brass, and "punch" for solo or parallel comp stuff), plus another 4 FX busses (short verb, long verb 1, long verb 2, delay). Then I have a separate Logic 'environment' page for setting up Aux channels as 'live' headphone mixes for vocals, guitar, and drums.

I like having the same mixer-style 'channel strip' on most channels with a cue mix send followed by sends to FX bus 1-4. And usually I'll have a 'channel strip' plugin in the first slot (usually Waves SSL or UAD Neve 88R) to handle basic hi/lo pass, gates, gain, etc.

Guess my old-school upbringing makes me happier working in a traditional mixer-style environment. And I like knowing that the 'usual' functions are always in the usual place. Sometimes too much flexibility in the configuration of a DAW project can just waste too much brain time that's better spent on the music.

Old 13th March 2014
  #29
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Samplitude's object editing/effecting approach, and using aux busses, makes for fewer sub busses for me. And fewer tracks overall for that matter.
Old 18th March 2014
  #30
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kim_otcj's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm almost always using group tracks and creating sub-mixes. I even put my aux buses in a group. I got into the habit when I was using an older under-powered computer that couldn't process everything at once, so I would bounce group tracks as I went. These days, having the groups makes it easier for me to set levels during mixing.
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