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Benefits or printing into DAW instead of bouncing
Old 6th March 2014
  #1
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Benefits or printing into DAW instead of bouncing

I always see people printing their mixes directly into the DAW rather than doing a bounce.

I've always just done a bounce (.wav, 24 bit, 44.1 or whatever my sample rate is)


Are there any benefits to printing onto another track on the DAW?
Old 6th March 2014
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Bobby Baird's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The only time I would print a mix is if I was running through outboard. Also, you have to worry about clipping the converter on the way back in. I always bounce. Best way to find out is do both and compare. Tell us what you find out.
Old 6th March 2014
  #3
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You can punch in and out of the mix and in Pro Tools you can edit between mixes using playlists.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Baird ➑️
The only time I would print a mix is if I was running through outboard. Also, you have to worry about clipping the converter on the way back in. I always bounce. Best way to find out is do both and compare. Tell us what you find out.
I did a bounce and print in logic 9. Then flipped the phase on one of the tracks and it didn't cancel out. Oddly enough it seemed to me like the printed version seemed somewhat less distorted and had a bit more low end.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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Bobby Baird's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by auralart ➑️
I did a bounce and print in logic 9. Then flipped the phase on one of the tracks and it didn't cancel out. Oddly enough it seemed to me like the printed version seemed somewhat less distorted and had a bit more low end.
I would be surprised if they nulled, but more low end that's interesting. Who doesn't like more low end? The low end thing could be attributed to sample rate frequency bandwidth. Was it 44.1?
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Baird ➑️
I would be surprised if they nulled, but more low end that's interesting. Who doesn't like more low end? The low end thing could be attributed to sample rate frequency bandwidth. Was it 44.1?
Yep all 44.1. I zoomed in on the waveform and up close (as far as I can zoom in) there are some differences. Might be a slight variation in algorithm between a bounce and recording it onto a track or something. Not sure what the mechanics of it all is but the printed version did seem more pleasant to my ears.

I feel like this thread is gonna turn into a gs trollfest.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #7
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mikeyman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by auralart ➑️
Yep all 44.1. I zoomed in on the waveform and up close (as far as I can zoom in) there are some differences. Might be a slight variation in algorithm between a bounce and recording it onto a track or something. Not sure what the mechanics of it all is but the printed version did seem more pleasant to my ears.

I feel like this thread is gonna turn into a gs trollfest.
well it must be because of the preamps you ran the mix thru or the converters during recording retained your bottom end .You lost some bottom end in your wav file?..A good lesson for us thanks
Old 6th March 2014
  #8
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The Guy's Avatar
 
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a little off topic, but im curious . . . as far as logic or ableton go, say i was to duplicate a track, bounce or flatten one of them, and turn the original midi channel off, would i be saving CPU juice? sometimes i want to preserve the original midi/effect data. not sure if there is another way to do it.
Old 6th March 2014
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Musiclab's Avatar
I'm on an analog console and I prefer to go into a set of Apogees into a Masterlink @ 24/96. Also I run Virtual instruments out into some hardware,usually a tube pre and record that back onto the daw.
Old 6th March 2014
  #10
XI-MACHINES
 
DAW PLUS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The advantage is that you can monitor the result instantly, which is also a MUST in larger facilities.
Sometimes people get different results when dong an offline bounce, which is partly due to pilot errors/offline settings of plugs, partly because of some mishap in the engine/driver.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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ChaseUTB's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guy ➑️
a little off topic, but im curious . . . as far as logic or ableton go, say i was to duplicate a track, bounce or flatten one of them, and turn the original midi channel off, would i be saving CPU juice? sometimes i want to preserve the original midi/effect data. not sure if there is another way to do it.
Freeze tracks in ableton will help your cpu and they still playback Ableton is genius for this

I always print the mix back in the session due to real time fader rides … 1/2 db rides going into the chorus etc plus a bounce u have no control over the bounce
with printing the mix I get to input monitor the mix being printed then after printing the mix the stems outputs multed to stem prints voila u now have stems/ mix prints all in the same session as the original files. Organization is key when doing this and having things labeled. Im in PT tho hope this helps
Old 6th March 2014
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by auralart ➑️
Are there any benefits to printing onto another track on the DAW?
Nope. A few of the previous comments are, at a minimum, just confusing the issue. In most good pro workstation you have three options...

1. Offline (much faster than realtime) bounce.
2. Record the mix back to an audio track in real time.
3. Realtime bounce, which is exactly the same as #2 except you don't have to set anything up. The new file can optionally auto-place itself on the timeline or not, your choice.

You can very easily at any time render (offline or realtime, your choice) any part of the full mix to a new file on the timeline in any pro daw, always could since like many years ago.

With the products I use I could very easily just draw a selection range on one track and with maybe two mouse clicks have it ...

1. Print that section of the mix (offline or realtime, doesn't matter)
2. Mute that entire vertical section of the full multitrack session.
3. Place that printed mix section on the timeline in that spot.

All by itself, without record arming anything or creating any tracks or anything else.

Welcome to 2005.
Old 6th March 2014
  #13
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phas3d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I sometimes freeze tracks in Logic when my UAD2 runs out of juice and I want to add more plug-ins. Works pretty well. No issues here.
As for the full mix I do realtime bounce without looking at the screen. Now and then I catch a few little things to correct.
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman ➑️
well it must be because of the preamps you ran the mix thru or the converters during recording retained your bottom end .You lost some bottom end in your wav file?..A good lesson for us thanks
The weird thing was I didn't go through any external hardware for this test. Just routed all my busses to a slave buss and armed a stereo track to record from that buss. I think it might have something to do with the buffer setting perhaps? The result was just seemed less distorted, especially in the bottom end which is why it might sound like more of it was retained this way.
Old 7th March 2014
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Bruno B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson ➑️
You can punch in and out of the mix and in Pro Tools you can edit between mixes using playlists.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseUTB ➑️
I always print the mix back in the session due to real time fader rides … 1/2 db rides going into the chorus etc plus a bounce u have no control over the bounce
And this.

I want multiple versions of the mix right in the session on audio tracks, labeled nicely, with notes. When I make changes, I can come back and A/B quickly, sometimes 3-4 versions at a time to determine if the new one beats the others.

I sometimes comp between multiple printed mixes, copying/pasting the best intros, outros. Having it right there makes it easy to deal with a fadeout... no need to re-bounce the whole thing, just consolidate the region and export.

There is no difference in quality between exporting the file vs. bouncing, but even when staying ITB they won't null many times because some reverbs and plugins/effects can add random changes. Going out through hardware will never null between two takes.
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