Quantcast
Sound difference between Reason 14:2 mixer and line mixer - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Sound difference between Reason 14:2 mixer and line mixer
Old 5th March 2014
  #1
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Sound difference between Reason 14:2 mixer and line mixer

I was creating a track last week and i noticed something about the sound quality of the mixers in Reason 5. So i did some tests and it definitely shows that they do sound different.

First test was summing 3 tracks together with nul settings on the 14:2 mixer and bounced to wave file. Again summing the same 3 tracks with nul settings with the 6:2 line mixer and bounced to wave file. Reloaded the tracks in reason and phase inverted one of the tracks with Thor and there was a remarkable difference. So took another test and grabbed a spider merger.
Again summing the same 3 tracks with nul settings with the spider and bounced to wave file. And after that phase inverted one of the tracks against the 14:2 mixer and the 6:2 line mixer...and again there was a difference between them.

It seems that the 14:2 mixer has a little less mid range less pronounced or something.
The line 6:2 output is exactly the same as the output routed to audio outputs of hardware interface
If i have to made choice, i definitely prefer the sound of the line 6:2 mixer above the 14:2 coloured sound.

Hear it for yourself and tell me what you think.
In the attached files you can find the tests and the song file.
Also did some a/b with a compressor after the mixers.

EDIT
Made a template file for bypassing the 14:2 mixer and starting document for new songs.

Enjoy!!
Attached Files
File Type: zip Summing test.zip (8.91 MB, 14 views) File Type: zip Abstract 2.zip (328.3 KB, 13 views) File Type: zip Empty Rack.zip (2.04 MB, 12 views)

Last edited by splitpen; 5th March 2014 at 10:35 AM.. Reason: completion
Old 5th March 2014
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
How does it compare to the "main mixer" in Reason 7?
Old 5th March 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Did you only phase invert using Thor on the first recording made with the 14:2? Your methodology described here leaves a lot to be desired because there are no differences between the mixers afaik.

Typically if you phase invert with Thor you would get a small, small delay introduced to the signal because of the time it takes for the device to calculate what to do with the signal, so unless you run the original signal through Thor as well, it's not a correctly performed test.
Old 5th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Here's a simple test where I run a drumloop through all three mixers in Reason 7, SSL, 14:2 and 6:2. I alternate between the different mixers randomly for each bar. I hear nothing different.
Attached Files

Three_Mixers.wav (4.04 MB, 404 views)

Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXode ➑️
Did you only phase invert using Thor on the first recording made with the 14:2? Your methodology described here leaves a lot to be desired because there are no differences between the mixers afaik.

Typically if you phase invert with Thor you would get a small, small delay introduced to the signal because of the time it takes for the device to calculate what to do with the signal, so unless you run the original signal through Thor as well, it's not a correctly performed test.
You got yourself a point here. I will make new samples.
The differences between the file ''test mixer.wav'' and ''test line mixer.wav'' has no thor included. Just the kick, bass and percussion routed to different channels on the mixers and then directly routed to the hardware input. If you listen to this wav files there is a noticable difference. If you solo the drums/ bass/ percussion the difference is less noticable i agree. But summed together there is a difference.
Old 8th March 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No Difference

There is no difference between 6:2 and 14:2. Here's a Reason 7.0 Song document (not just a wave) proving it *removed*. In this example I run a Drum Loop through a spider (split the signal) and then I run it through both the 6:2 and 14:2 mixers. The output of the 14:2 mixer is then inverted in Thor before it's merged with the 6:2 signal in the Audio Spider. The result? Silence, which proves my point. There is no difference between them. If you mute either the 6:2 or the 14:2 channel you get sound again. I have demonstrated this in the document by starting with the 14:2 muted and then I mute/unmute for every bar.
Old 8th March 2014
  #7
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I don't own reason 7 so can't load the files.. Maybe it got different in reason 6 and above. Can you load the rns file from the first post?
Thanks anyway for checking it out exode :D. You've been a reason user for a very long time am i right? At least from what i remembered i thought that i saw tour name regular times on the reasonstationforum back in the early years of 2000.
Old 8th March 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yes, I've been a registered user since 2004 and did a couple of free refills back then. I was (and still am) hanging around the user forum, perhaps not as active as before.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpen ➑️
I don't own reason 7 so can't load the files.. Maybe it got different in reason 6 and above.
Because I'm such a nice guy, I've installed Reason 5 and re-done the song example in Reason 5.

The result is the same as in Reason 7. i.e. I get silence when I run audio through the 6:2 mixer and summing it with audio running through the 14:2 mixer that is then inverted.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Mixers.zip (68.4 KB, 11 views)
Old 10th March 2014
  #10
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I did the tests myself and in reason routed it completely nulls like you said.

But.. when i mixdown the mixer through a thor without negative phase and the line mixer without negative phase apart from eachother.
Load the wave files back in reason in the nn19 and both through a thor with one inverse phase there is the difference....it has something to do with the rendering i guess.
I uploaded the song files, first one with instruments and second with the bounced files.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Reason Songs.zip (1.81 MB, 7 views)
Old 11th March 2014
  #11
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I have a M-audio delta 2496 and i have tried a couple settings in reason.
- ASIO M-Audio Delta ASIO setting
- DX-M-audio Delta AP Multi.

With a bass patch that has no effects it completely nulls after export on both settings.
When i place only 1 static parametric eq after the bass, the export shows different results.
I know that eq causes some phase shifts but it's seems that this causes differences in the phase in every export

Attached Files
File Type: zip test2.zip (1.31 MB, 4 views)
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpen ➑️
I did the tests myself and in reason routed it completely nulls like you said.

But.. when i mixdown the mixer through a thor without negative phase and the line mixer without negative phase apart from eachother.
Load the wave files back in reason in the nn19 and both through a thor with one inverse phase there is the difference....it has something to do with the rendering i guess.
I uploaded the song files, first one with instruments and second with the bounced files.
What you have to keep in mind is that certain effects and synths have random elements to them. For instance Thor's Analog Osc has a feature that randomizes it's start phase. This means basically that if you export the audio at different times, you will get variances in the two resulting wavefiles. To do the test correctly, you'd have to export to wave first, then load that wavefile in Reason (i.e. inside a NN-19) and then do the phase inversion test through the two mixers.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpen ➑️
With a bass patch that has no effects it completely nulls after export on both settings.
When i place only 1 static parametric eq after the bass, the export shows different results.
I know that eq causes some phase shifts but it's seems that this causes differences in the phase in every export

Yes, because equalization is achieved by using phase shifts/inversions so it's only natural that you would get a different result as soon as you enable EQ'ing. What I don't understand is if you get a phase shift if you put an EQ after the synth but before you split the signal and to the inversion/null test? I'll have to check that out further when I'm in front of my music computer again.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
splitpen's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXode ➑️
What you have to keep in mind is that certain effects and synths have random elements to them. For instance Thor's Analog Osc has a feature that randomizes it's start phase. This means basically that if you export the audio at different times, you will get variances in the two resulting wavefiles. To do the test correctly, you'd have to export to wave first, then load that wavefile in Reason (i.e. inside a NN-19) and then do the phase inversion test through the two mixers.
That's the trick, didn't know that it that randomizes it's start phase. Thanks eXode!

Tried it with a wavetable osc on the thor and even when a effect like a eq is on it it nulls completely with different exports.

I think this topic is busted haha

Last edited by splitpen; 11th March 2014 at 12:45 PM.. Reason: edit
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
eXode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpen ➑️
That's the trick, didn't know that it that randomizes it's start phase. Thanks eXode!

Tried it with a wavetable osc on the thor and even when a effect like a eq is on it it nulls completely with different exports.

I think this topic is busted haha
Glad I could help!
Old 11th March 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Glad you guys worked it out. First thing I said to myself when reading was "I bet using Thor to invert the phase is the issue" haha
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 173 views: 23946
Avatar for Mege
Mege 27th January 2021
replies: 235 views: 20825
Avatar for EnochLight
EnochLight 25th March 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump