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Ableton live 9 pdc still not fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 21st June 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Ableton live 9 pdc still not fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe this - I really can't. I thought the reason they took 3-4 years between 8 and 9 was to rewrite faulty code that everyone that uses live admits is its biggest flaw.
After a battery of tests it's absolutely no better!!
I couldn't care if they didn't add a single new feature but not fixing these timing issues is unforgivable.
Is there no way to fix this?
Jesus I'm o angry - bring on bitwig please hurry up.
I know logic has its problems too but pdc not fixed in v9 in 2013! rrrrr
Has anyone got any fixes (I know there isn't but miracles have happened)
I've tried all (except pt) and none suit spontaneous ideas like live but I'm not getting much finished and I'm over it. .. I've got about 30 songs to sequence and I'm going to have to move to another daw even though I've spent thousands on the stupid thing.
Old 21st June 2013
  #2
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You might want to wait for this to be released : Bitwig | Bitwig Studio

It's the better version of Live 9
Old 21st June 2013
  #3
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🎧 10 years
Trust me I am. I now now definitively why they left ableton. The code is doomed from the beginning, they left to start and make the live that should have been and I just can't wait.
I will then sell my live license and never look back.
That's how confident I am in bitwig. They where the original team or part of,saw the writing on the wall and left years ago to do it right.
It's funny how the forum on abletons site is now nearly impossible to find....
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #4
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Nedavine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma ➑️
Trust me I am. I now now definitively why they left ableton. The code is doomed from the beginning, they left to start and make the live that should have been and I just can't wait.
I will then sell my live license and never look back.
That's how confident I am in bitwig. They where the original team or part of,saw the writing on the wall and left years ago to do it right.
It's funny how the forum on abletons site is now nearly impossible to find....
dumb question but what is pdc?
Old 21st June 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
plugin delay compensation...an ongoing issue with Live that is never addressed
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #6
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Nedavine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekohler ➑️
plugin delay compensation...an ongoing issue with Live that is never addressed
Ahh. I thought that wasnt a bug, it just wasnt a feature yet. It doesnt bother me "yet" but I can see how it would piss some off.
Old 21st June 2013
  #7
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So... since Live 9 is still missing PDC , how are all other Live 9 users dealing with it ? How bad is a DAW without PDC ? Do you need to shift your tracks in time ? do you get phasing issues when using plug-ins ? ...etc.

Just curious as to how crippling to production not having PDC is ?

Is Ableton promising PDC for Live 9 in the near future ? or are they ignoring this ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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Eric J's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp ➑️
So... since Live 9 is still missing PDC , how are all other Live 9 users dealing with it ? How bad is a DAW without PDC ? Do you need to shift your tracks in time ? do you get phasing issues when using plug-ins ? ...etc.

Just curious as to how crippling to production not having PDC is ?

Is Ableton promising PDC for Live 9 in the near future ? or are they ignoring this ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp
Ableton Live has PDC and it has worked for me since I started using it with plugins at version 7.

Not sure why the OP is having problems, but it's never been a problem for me, FWIW.
Old 21st June 2013
  #10
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🎧 10 years
It was implemented in Live 9 apparently (I'm 100% about that but could have been 8). But it is not fixed, audio is fine and Ive never had an issue with audio. Any time based plugins are the issue. I was listening to one of my tracks while having a cigarette and could hear giest drift further and further away from my sampled bass and synth lines. Only 4 tracks where being used but I had a number of plugins in use. Nothing that ANY daw should have a problem with. I have an I7 with plenty of RAM, plenty of HDD, am anal about my file structuring, ect. That is one of a number of forum posts on Abletons forum but as yet nothing from ableton. Ive submitted a ticket and they simply said it had been implemented and nothing more.
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric J ➑️
Ableton Live has PDC and it has worked for me since I started using it with plugins at version 7.

Not sure why the OP is having problems, but it's never been a problem for me, FWIW.
Me neither. Although I run mine at 64 or 128 sample buffer.

dogma, what are the specs of your computer?
Old 21st June 2013
  #12
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Nedavine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've never noticed any issues, maybe I have been lucky. Maybe my effects don't warrant hardcore accuracy who knows.
Old 21st June 2013
  #13
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The OP is indicating that the issue is :

Ableton's current implementation of PDC for Plug-ins in Live 9 is still buggy.

I guess they need to improve/fix it.

I'm glad I did not venture into any Ableton products, including Live 9. I'm very excited about Bitwig Studio, and will surely add it as soon as it is released.

Good Luck,
Muziksculp
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu ➑️
Me neither. Although I run mine at 64 or 128 sample buffer.

dogma, what are the specs of your computer?
I7 MBP. 8gb ram. Buffer settings 256.
Old 21st June 2013
  #15
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login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Implementation is not buggy, it is not complete according to them (it works under some conditions only). They are aware and at the Live 9 beta forum they said work to resolve this was high on their list after release. They also stated it wasn't a simple fix.
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #16
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Nedavine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma ➑️
I7 MBP. 8gb ram. Buffer settings 256.
I get lag with that large a buffer. I usually keep it at 128 max
Old 21st June 2013
  #17
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🎧 10 years
In the their marketing it specifically says pdc implemented - if that the case they shouldn't have mentioned a thing until it was done and not buggy because in my mind its still in beta phase then.
I've tried all types of buffer settings and the problem is still there
Old 21st June 2013
  #18
Deleted 60622ed
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Never had a problem with it to be honest...maybe its me or the fact my music isnt particularly tight...but ive held off from upgrading to 9 to see what Bitwig offers first
Old 21st June 2013
  #19
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Not having a problem here, either in Live 8 or 9.
Old 21st June 2013
  #20
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ohmicide's Avatar
damn, you're late to the party LOL
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #21
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️
damn, you're late to the party LOL
No Ive just had enough. It seems the better I get the worse Live gets - directly proportional...... I dont want to learn another DAW ATM though Reaper would be my next port of call, I love their credo. Although Logic DID take over Redmatica so I guess theyll put their genius software into Logic X.. But really Bitwig is what I;m waiting for. This should be in the moan zone now I think about it. Because there is no way out unless ableton fix it which looks like never happening or not anytime soon seeing as theyve already announced its arrival. Lying bastards ( I own Logic 8 but have seen no reason to update... lets see)
Old 21st June 2013
  #22
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UltimateOutsider's Avatar
The PDC issue I reckon the OP is talking about happens when you're attempting to do automation on a track where there are plugins that introduce a lot of delay. Live isn't able to properly compensate for the plugin delay, so the automation happens out of time.

Ableton very openly acknowledges that the issue exists, and the only reason most users don't complain about it is because most users apparently don't attempt to do automation on tracks with the kinds and combination of plugins that result in the issue.

Also, this has nothing to do with Live's "driver error compensation" or track delay features, and is not a function of interface buffer size. Those things do not address this specific problem.
Old 21st June 2013
  #23
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Grimbog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The only major issue I tend to have is with UAD plugins, in that as I use more resources on the UAD card I find that Live loses sync with any external equipment. As a result what I tend to do now is create a track without any UAD stuff so that I can use external equipment, then do all the processing afterwards.

Also, Live has real issues clocking with my MPC 3000 in that sometimes the MPC runs at half-speed, or loses the song-pointer... As a test I synced my Atari ST (Notator installed) with Live and that was fine, so now I have a weird route of going from Live in to the Atari and then sync from there to the MPC 3000, which seems mad, but it works okay.

...but yes, I think DAW manufacturers in general should place more emphasis on creating a smooth workflow both IN and OUT of the computer, rather than packing in more sample libraries for the 'Mcdonalds experience' of music production.
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #24
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Musician's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma ➑️
Trust me I am. I now now definitively why they left ableton. The code is doomed from the beginning, they left to start and make the live that should have been and I just can't wait.
I will then sell my live license and never look back.
That's how confident I am in bitwig. They where the original team or part of,saw the writing on the wall and left years ago to do it right.
It's funny how the forum on abletons site is now nearly impossible to find....
Same here.
Ableton Live, I will leave it as soon as Bitwig hits the streets.
I can use it but at the same time it drives me crazy at times.... some bigger plugins used and the CPU level hits 40%+ and then Live starts to act weird at times.... This is stupid! I have 8 cores !!

Mind you, we have no clue wheter Bitwig will be better at PDC or plugin handling, only the betatesters could tell us.
But they are as tightlipped as can be ....
Old 21st June 2013
  #25
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Nedavine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Bit wig could be a giant turd for all we know. I wouldn't burn my bridges yet.
Old 21st June 2013
  #26
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Synthbuilder's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Just to reiterate, Live does have PDC and has since version 4 I think. What Live has never done is:

1. Compensate for any automation. This means that any automation that controls any plug in will be slightly out of step with the audio that is running through it. Simple fades and filter sweeps will be handled fine, but rhythmic gating effects are out. The actual time everything is out varies with plugins used, sound card settings and a lot of other things that are just too mind boggling to deal with.

2. Compensate the screen visuals. This means all meter displays will out of step with what you are hearing and the playback line is not where it should be.

3. Properly work out out the compensation on the first playback of the arrangement. You need to play the whole track through before Live can calculate the required maximum delay time it needs to use. The first playback via the arrange window will be marred by little clicks if the PDC suddenly requires the output to be delayed still further. Rendering seems unaffected by this thankfully.

I think there is an issue with external midi sync too but I have not come across this myself.

Tony
Old 21st June 2013
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
JayFalcon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Studio One says Hi
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Deleted 60622ed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOutsider ➑️
The PDC issue I reckon the OP is talking about happens when you're attempting to do automation on a track where there are plugins that introduce a lot of delay. Live isn't able to properly compensate for the plugin delay, so the automation happens out of time.

Ableton very openly acknowledges that the issue exists, and the only reason most users don't complain about it is because most users apparently don't attempt to do automation on tracks with the kinds and combination of plugins that result in the issue.

Also, this has nothing to do with Live's "driver error compensation" or track delay features, and is not a function of interface buffer size. Those things do not address this specific problem.
Ahh, makes sense...i only track and arrange in live...apart from automation on synths and hardware editors, i dont use any plugs..
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #29
Deleted 60622ed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFalcon ➑️
Studio One says Hi
Thats what i mix on...its excellent
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 60622ed ➑️
Thats what i mix on...its excellent
Yeah, it's like Logic with all of the good stuff sucked out ;P

Nah it is good, good bounce/freeze, they need to sort out good hardware support for the mixer though.
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