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Best Piano Vst?
Old 25th May 2017
  #421
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🎧 5 years
Loving my ProductionVoices Grand Gold v2
Old 25th May 2017 | Show parent
  #422
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
demos are lame but so are Mercury demos, so like a fool on a hill i buy them

i enjoy Mercury for the expression , Ivory studio grands now available so of coarse i made the purchase

i dont get why everyone enjoys slopping reverb on piano demos its not real maybe a bleed of reverb
What do you think of the studio grands so far?
Old 25th May 2017 | Show parent
  #423
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyLuo ➡️
What do you think of the studio grands so far?
solid all around if you want the real sound not doctored up like most libraries , you'll love this , same level as production voices 2 grand , i find no fault . lets face it you want dreamy process the sound yourself instead of purchasing a library for this

thumbs up here
Old 26th May 2017
  #424
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🎧 5 years
No Love for Keyscape ? ?
Old 26th May 2017
  #425
SEA
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🎧 15 years
This is one of my favorite pianos. I just did a short demo showing the dynamics. First I play soft then later FFF.

Here's a link to check it out.

https://app.box.com/s/xsxl035yk9lv0r7b0gpzdm1vmboxczel

Cheers!
Old 26th May 2017
  #426
Don't want to sound like an a-hole, but "Best Piano Vst" idea very questionable. Best for what? For solo recording Chopin, for Jazz, for House, for Trance, for Cinematic, for everyday practice, price-wise, feature-wise, for playing using a weighted keyboard, for programming/producing? etc. DX7 piano can be considered "best" for many cases.
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #427
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM ➡️
Don't want to sound like an a-hole, but "Best Piano Vst" idea very questionable. Best for what? For solo recording Chopin, for Jazz, for House, for Trance, for Cinematic, for everyday practice, price-wise, feature-wise, for playing using a weighted keyboard, for programming/producing? etc. DX7 piano can be considered "best" for many cases.
i think what is ment the most relialistic, even some real pianos are awful
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
i think what is meant the most realistic, even some real pianos are awful
Yes, this is a kind of assumption here. But I prefer if it will be clearly stated, say, what is the best, most realistic piano from a well trained pianist point of view, who use it for playing with weighted MIDI keyboard.

For example, I know Keyscape grand very well, and consider if very beautifully sounding, but I will not use it for a "realistic" piano library, for me it have too much personality (which is not always a good thing).

I'm very interested in the topic but unfortunately not able to trust people's opinions here, because it is not clear from what perspective they give their statements. The demos also don't give a full picture because it is 50% pianist 50% the product involved. Also, BTW, using the same MIDI file to test different piano VST libraries is just a pure evil.

Speaking of realism. Pianoteq - a very controversial product, is tremendously realistic in some aspects while at the same level not in others. BTW, sounds extremely realistic in a busy mix to my knowledge.

p.s.: sorry for extensive use of the words "tremendous", "extremely", so on. It is some famous politician bad influence on me. ...fantastic, terrific...
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #429
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM ➡️
Yes, this is a kind of assumption here. But I prefer if it will be clearly stated, say, what is the best, most realistic piano from a well trained pianist point of view, who use it for playing with weighted MIDI keyboard.

For example, I know Keyscape grand very well, and consider if very beautifully sounding, but I will not use it for a "realistic" piano library, for me it have too much personality (which is not always a good thing).

I'm very interested in the topic but unfortunately not able to trust people's opinions here, because it is not clear from what perspective they give their statements. The demos also don't give a full picture because it is 50% pianist 50% the product involved. Also, BTW, using the same MIDI file to test different piano VST libraries is just a pure evil.

Speaking of realism. Pianoteq - a very controversial product, is tremendously realistic in some aspects while at the same level not in others. BTW, sounds extremely realistic in a busy mix to my knowledge.

p.s.: sorry for extensive use of the words "tremendous", "extremely", so on. It is some famous politician bad influence on me. ...fantastic, terrific...
i owned a grand so i look a plugins as a way to record at home without dealing with character flaws (musicians) , i toured for 30 yrs and now retired the new ivory studio i must say first library i can really enjoy , i dont have keyscape never interested me but i do own the rest, most have tuning issues mostly around c3 range , pianoteq i have but find it nothing more than a practice tool the new ivory studio vids on youtube are close but you dont hear expression when they play . i hear no passion only notes without meaning , like most of guitarist its solo time , this morning playing chopin it was a joy using Steinway B ivory studio
tried some jazz it felt good , can you believe me why should you , we all have differnet tastes
people rave about VSL imperial grand after all day on Ivory went to VSL Imperial big sound not much in producing emotion went back to ivory within 30 seconds

today muscians are about cut , copy and paste i wonder what Rachmaninoff would think ?

Last edited by Ranger; 27th May 2017 at 02:39 AM..
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #430
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Clockwise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
today muscians are about cut , copy and paste i wonder what Rachmaninoff would think ?
I think he'd be very much interested in learning to use DAW and possibly Spifire would sponsor him to produce his signature orchestral library.
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #431
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwise ➡️
I think he'd be very much interested in learning to use DAW and possibly Spifire would sponsor him to produce his signature orchestral library.
what i ment in his time even the big band time it was done in one take , the records still stand today

i dont think todays music with the way it recorded has weight
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #432
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Clockwise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
lets see daws

i have
cubase
dp9
studio one
reaper
mixbus
waveform tracktion

used computers for music since 1981 most here werent born

i can go on , never asume
Are you saying that I assumed something?

I've never mentioned about what DAW you use, I just said Rachmaninov would have been more than happy to use DAW for composition if he was here today. IMO of course.
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #433
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwise ➡️
Are you saying that I assumed something?

I've never mentioned about what DAW you use, I just said Rachmaninov would have been more than happy to use DAW for composition if he was here today. IMO of course.
not at all an error in my thought sorry, couldnt correct
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #434
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Clockwise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
what i ment in his time even the big band time it was done in one take , the records still stand today

i dont think todays music with the way it recorded has weight
I see, I respect your opinion.
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #435
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Clockwise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
not at all an error in my thought sorry, couldnt correct
No probs!
Old 27th May 2017 | Show parent
  #436
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwise ➡️
No probs!
senior moment i did delete as soon as i found my post with wrong member
Old 9th June 2017 | Show parent
  #437
CGR
Gear Nut
 
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🎧 5 years
Mystery favourite piano

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA ➡️
This is one of my favorite pianos. I just did a short demo showing the dynamics. First I play soft then later FFF.

Here's a link to check it out.

https://app.box.com/s/xsxl035yk9lv0r7b0gpzdm1vmboxczel

Cheers!
. . . and the piano is?
Old 9th June 2017 | Show parent
  #438
SEA
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGR ➡️
. . . and the piano is?
White Grand by Sampletekk ;-)
Old 17th June 2017 | Show parent
  #439
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM ➡️
Yes, this is a kind of assumption here. But I prefer if it will be clearly stated, say, what is the best, most realistic piano from a well trained pianist point of view, who use it for playing with weighted MIDI keyboard.

For example, I know Keyscape grand very well, and consider if very beautifully sounding, but I will not use it for a "realistic" piano library, for me it have too much personality (which is not always a good thing).

I'm very interested in the topic but unfortunately not able to trust people's opinions here, because it is not clear from what perspective they give their statements. The demos also don't give a full picture because it is 50% pianist 50% the product involved. Also, BTW, using the same MIDI file to test different piano VST libraries is just a pure evil.

Speaking of realism. Pianoteq - a very controversial product, is tremendously realistic in some aspects while at the same level not in others. BTW, sounds extremely realistic in a busy mix to my knowledge.

p.s.: sorry for extensive use of the words "tremendous", "extremely", so on. It is some famous politician bad influence on me. ...fantastic, terrific...
Yup.... "demos" are all we have to go on, in most cases. And all of us have experienced the post-purchase SHOCK that comes when you realize, "This piano sample doesn't sound AT ALL like the demo!"

Online demos are designed to SELL PRODUCT. The midi file has to put the piano sample in the best possible light. What you hear in the demo may not sound a lot like what you hear when you get the sample up and running at home!

A big crap shoot from the get-go.

The much-maligned Hans Zimmer Hamburg Steinway works for me, right now. But it's NOT for live-playing: just my personal judgment. Only 4 layers (I think), and not responsive under the fingers. I use it for ONE purpose: "LIVE-SOUNDING" recordings in a solo context. HZP recordings CAN be made to sound pretty close to real piano recordings, at least in certain rep.

I have a bunch of other vsts, including the Production Voices Yammy, which (again just my personal opinion) is excellent for recordings AND for playing, if you have a powerful DAW. But if you don't like the Yamaha sound, it's not going to work for you.

My Youtube stuff uses a bunch of different pianos. But it's Youtube, so the sound sucks to a certain extent (my view).

Wish there were alternatives to Youtube; ie, alternatives with much better audio standards.
Old 17th June 2017 | Show parent
  #440
SEA
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant ➡️
Yup.... "demos" are all we have to go on, in most cases. And all of us have experienced the post-purchase SHOCK that comes when you realize, "This piano sample doesn't sound AT ALL like the demo!"

Online demos are designed to SELL PRODUCT. The midi file has to put the piano sample in the best possible light. What you hear in the demo may not sound a lot like what you hear when you get the sample up and running at home!

A big crap shoot from the get-go.

The much-maligned Hans Zimmer Hamburg Steinway works for me, right now. But it's NOT for live-playing: just my personal judgment. Only 4 layers (I think), and not responsive under the fingers. I use it for ONE purpose: "LIVE-SOUNDING" recordings in a solo context. HZP recordings CAN be made to sound pretty close to real piano recordings, at least in certain rep.

I have a bunch of other vsts, including the Production Voices Yammy, which (again just my personal opinion) is excellent for recordings AND for playing, if you have a powerful DAW. But if you don't like the Yamaha sound, it's not going to work for you.

My Youtube stuff uses a bunch of different pianos. But it's Youtube, so the sound sucks to a certain extent (my view).

Wish there were alternatives to Youtube; ie, alternatives with much better audio standards.
When I make a demo of a piano I strive to show what the piano actually sounds like. With that said my White Grand demos sounds exactly like the piano. The only thing added is reverb and perhaps a slight boost in the highs and low end.

Also, midi files do not work as well as playing the actually piano (IMHO). When I AB pianos I simply perform a similar demo wth each piano I'm comparing. That way I can tap into the right feel and velocity of each piano.
Old 17th June 2017 | Show parent
  #441
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA ➡️
When I make a demo of a piano I strive to show what the piano actually sounds like. With that said my White Grand demos sounds exactly like the piano. The only thing added is reverb and perhaps a slight boost in the highs and low end.

Also, midi files do not work as well as playing the actually piano (IMHO). When I AB pianos I simply perform a similar demo wth each piano I'm comparing. That way I can tap into the right feel and velocity of each piano.
Oh. By "midi" file, I meant the midi file generated by a live performance (for example, the midi files generated by the Yamaha "E-competition"), which midi file can, if desired, then be modified via midi-editing to fix mistakes, and/or to make more substantial modifications.

And (as you mentioned) then there's editing the audio file, itself, (reverb, compression, normalization, etc.)

White Grand: nice sample!

Also by Worra, PMI Bos..... one of my personal all-time favs.

Last edited by johnlewisgrant; 17th June 2017 at 08:17 PM..
Old 17th June 2017 | Show parent
  #442
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant ➡️
Oh. By "midi" file, I meant the midi file generated by a live performance (for example, the midi files generated by the Yamaha "E-competition"), which midi file can, if desired, then be modified via midi-editing to fix mistakes, and/or to make more substantial modifications.

And (as you mentioned) then there's editing the audio file, itself, (reverb, compression, normalization, etc.)

White Grand: nice sample!

Also by Worra, PMI Bos..... one of my personal all-time favs.
Yeah... I don't use compression on solo piano. I just like a bit of verb myself. The eq I use is subtle and I can always make a demo without it. Sometimes I'll add a touch of stereo spread of some BBE.

After my midi performance is edited (adjust velocities etc.,) then I render the midi performance to 24 bit with the eq, verb.
Old 18th June 2017 | Show parent
  #443
Sky
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
i like the pianos to have backbone in sound so when needed i can reduce does keyscape have this or is it on the thin side on the high end like bechstein or pianoteq
I think I understand what you're saying. American D has a whole lot of backbone. As a solo piano this gives it wonderful character imho, and it's harder to fit into a mix. In trying to EQ it into submission, it begins to lose its character - always great for solo though.

In contrast, the new Montage pianos (CFX and Imperial) are thin, clean, coherent and balanced. They are nice production pianos because they sit more easily in a mix. The key for them is balance. I can carefully dial in backbone across the spectrum using saturation or perhaps clipping / limiting.

Sky
Old 18th June 2017 | Show parent
  #444
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loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've beta tested for several top piano VSTi companies and at least for the ones I have worked for I can say for a fact the demos are not "juiced" at all. They are done with the stock presets and FX...These companies are extremely, hyper in fact, about not releasing a demo that can't be recreated by their customers. Currently my demos are being used by at least one major piano VSTi company and they sound exactly the same in my studio. There is no faking.

One super big thing, and others have brought this up, is that playing a stock MIDI file through different piano VSTi is a disaster.... Each VSTi is really just like a real piano. The feel is different, the dynamics, the touch, the velocity curve, everything... The only REAL TRUE METHOD, of comparing various VSTi is to play them.. So for example I play differently using Ivory than I do using PianoTeq.. Completely different. If I record a demo of a piece using Ivory and play it back through PianoTeq it just doesn't sound right. Dynamics, pedaling and so forth is off. Same thing going the other way.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 18th June 2017 | Show parent
  #445
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy ➡️
One super big thing, and others have brought this up, is that playing a stock MIDI file through different piano VSTi is a disaster.... Each VSTi is really just like a real piano. The feel is different, the dynamics, the touch, the velocity curve, everything... The only REAL TRUE METHOD, of comparing various VSTi is to play them.. So for example I play differently using Ivory than I do using PianoTeq.. Completely different. If I record a demo of a piece using Ivory and play it back through PianoTeq it just doesn't sound right. Dynamics, pedaling and so forth is off. Same thing going the other way.
Exactly right in my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant ➡️
Yup.... "demos" are all we have to go on, in most cases. And all of us have experienced the post-purchase SHOCK that comes when you realize, "This piano sample doesn't sound AT ALL like the demo!"

Online demos are designed to SELL PRODUCT. The midi file has to put the piano sample in the best possible light. What you hear in the demo may not sound a lot like what you hear when you get the sample up and running at home!
My experience is a bit kind of opposite regarding the demos. My point is more about that the "demo pianists" are not always able to show the full potential of the VST piano, or the company use some stock MIDI to demo their product, which don't sound right with their particular virtual piano.
Old 18th June 2017 | Show parent
  #446
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loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM ➡️
Exactly right in my experience.

My experience is a bit kind of opposite regarding the demos. My point is more about that the "demo pianists" are not always able to show the full potential of the VST piano, or the company use some stock MIDI to demo their product, which don't sound right with their particular virtual piano.
From my experience, the top VSTi piano companies are trying to show the widest possible range of their instrument. So for example a super bright C7 used in a classical piece to demonstrate that this particular VSTi has a wide range of uses. So it's more about "here is what we can do" vs "we do classical/jazz/pop/ragtime/etc well"....

So what they are trying to do is break some long time stereotypes.
The success rate varies :(
Old 20th June 2017 | Show parent
  #447
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy ➡️
I've beta tested for several top piano VSTi companies and at least for the ones I have worked for I can say for a fact the demos are not "juiced" at all. They are done with the stock presets and FX...These companies are extremely, hyper in fact, about not releasing a demo that can't be recreated by their customers. Currently my demos are being used by at least one major piano VSTi company and they sound exactly the same in my studio. There is no faking.

One super big thing, and others have brought this up, is that playing a stock MIDI file through different piano VSTi is a disaster.... Each VSTi is really just like a real piano. The feel is different, the dynamics, the touch, the velocity curve, everything... The only REAL TRUE METHOD, of comparing various VSTi is to play them.. So for example I play differently using Ivory than I do using PianoTeq.. Completely different. If I record a demo of a piece using Ivory and play it back through PianoTeq it just doesn't sound right. Dynamics, pedaling and so forth is off. Same thing going the other way.

Just my 2 cents.
your understanding what i'm trying to get at , i've been off the deep end waiting for that library , so i spend spend and spend , demos are poor so we never know how our fingers will give the library justice, there are libraries that work well for me but very few , i must say purchased IVORY STUDIO grands 3 weeks ago and havent touched my other pianos , or even tried the bosendorfer 225 in ivory enjoying steinway B ,bravo to synthlogy, there is one exception i load up pianoteq for practice loads fast and sounds fine for this purpose

bechstein i like alot still a bit thin on high end , production voices a solid choice
at this point
these 5 i use for my playing style
Production Voices
Bechstein
Mercury
Ivory studio grands
pianoteq

ivory being on top of the list
Old 21st June 2017
  #448
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🎧 5 years
4 out of 5
Not into Ivory, though.
Old 21st June 2017 | Show parent
  #449
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loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger ➡️
your understanding what i'm trying to get at , i've been off the deep end waiting for that library , so i spend spend and spend , demos are poor so we never know how our fingers will give the library justice, there are libraries that work well for me but very few , i must say purchased IVORY STUDIO grands 3 weeks ago and havent touched my other pianos , or even tried the bosendorfer 225 in ivory enjoying steinway B ,bravo to synthlogy, there is one exception i load up pianoteq for practice loads fast and sounds fine for this purpose

bechstein i like alot still a bit thin on high end , production voices a solid choice
at this point
these 5 i use for my playing style
Production Voices
Bechstein
Mercury
Ivory studio grands
pianoteq

ivory being on top of the list
Playabilty is tops for me... Notes cutting off completely when pumping the sustain pedal will kill a piano VSTi for me in a millisecond. A real piano will catch the notes and sustain the sound.

I tend to follow my mom's advice when it comes to piano libraries or any other topic for that matter.... "If you don't have anything nice to say......"......

I tend to give people who extol some piano library the benefit of doubt because maybe they found the sound they needed to blend in a mix. That's all cool. Maple Leaf Rag sounds great on an out of tune saloon upright... Not so much good on a high tone Steinway...
it all depends.

For me it's the following:

PianoTeq Bluthner, Grotrian, Steinway B.
Ravenscrof 275
Ivory American D and Italian Grand

The loser is Acoustic Samples C7... No way to play it soft.
Other losers are every Kontakt based piano I have ever played.

Understand, I'm not saying these pianos don't have some use, I'm just saying they neither play like or sound like realistic pianos.
For example Alicia Keys piano is horrid as a solo instrument but sits well in a pop mix.
Different strokes etc.

One last thing, like I have said a 1000 times, playing the same MIDI file through 10 different VSTi is a totally defective method for evaluating a piano, or any other instrument VSTi.
Old 21st June 2017
  #450
@ loopy
I totally agree about everything you say. Did you have a chance to test Galaxy Instruments Vintage D? How is it compared to Ravenscroft or Ivory II? I actually enjoy using it - it is very close to the sound of my favorite types of real grands. I would not call it exactly "vintage" but rather "classic" (as opposite to modern).

ADDED: ah, I see that Ivory II American Concert D is also a "vintage 1951 Steinway Concert D", BTW.
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