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Logic vs. Pro Tools. Two WAV files.
Old 28th January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Logic vs. Pro Tools. Two WAV files.

Hey there!
I am thinking of switching from Logic to Pro Tools. My primary interest is the sound quality and stability. I got very tired of conversations about which DAW is better...so I decided to do a series of tests and hear by myself.

Method:
I built a Mix on Pro Tools 9, and then copied every single plugin setting/patch/midifile/audiofile/fader position to Logic.
Both Projects where made in 88.2 kHz and 24 bit.
Bounce used for logic was Real-time.
I run logic in 64 bit.
All fader positions for every track where the same in both DAWS as well as other variables such as compressor settings, EQ, Reverb Patches etc.



In this 4 minute tracks you will hear a change every 8 bars
----------
1-8 - 2 Synths, centred.
9-16 - two synths panned Extreme R & Extreme L.
17-24 - two synths + Kick sample (Without Compressor nor any other plugin)
25-32 Kick + EQ & Compressor.
33-40 + synth bass (No plugin)
41-48 Kick + Bass go to a Bus with L2 for gluing.
49 - 56 Snare (Compressor + small Reverb)
57-64 snare (Same compressor but + long Reverb)
65-72 Guitar sample (without Plugin)
73 - 81 guitar sample + 20% mix delay
81-89 guitar sample + 70% mix delay
89-96 Highats


Pro Tools:
Download Bounce Full PT.wav from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

Logic:
Download Bounce Full Logic.wav from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

Pics:









*One file is longer than other just because when bouncing the cursor was on a different position. The longer file is just a loop of the final 8 bars, so its the same
Old 28th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Well done my friend, do your own tests you can be your own judge. I know for a fact the sound engines of many different DAW's sound different but the nay sayers on Gearslutz will say nooo, the files null, your just imagining things ...fine, I have a 6th Sense ... and I see dead people.
Old 28th January 2013
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Ohh yeah those "Nay Sayers", I hope they dont do sound for living :O
Old 28th January 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
They sound totally different.Levels are not the same at all. What to you what to to achieve with this?
Old 28th January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Oh dear
Old 28th January 2013
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I wanted to hear the difference in sound of both DAWs under the same settings.
Old 28th January 2013
  #7
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stinkyfingers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
oh well
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekbo ➡️
I wanted to hear the difference in sound of both DAWs under the same settings.
something is wrong with the settings, or how they translate between Logic and PT.

You cant judge the "quality" of the platforms with this, since they sound so different balance-wise.

Don´t worry, use the DAW you feel is the smoothest for you workflow-wise. There is no difference in sound quality between them.
Old 29th January 2013
  #9
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Workflow wise, Logic no doubt. Sound quality, I will have to disagree. I think, in general tracks in pro tools sit and cut better in the mixes.
Old 29th January 2013
  #10
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
What is this proving?

First off, the screenshots first off have different fader positions, was there automation occuring? 9th from the left in PT seems to be higher than Logic, same for the last 3 visible faders in the PT screenshot vs. the 3 (of the 4) on the far right of the Logic screenshot.

Secondly, have you normalized ALL relevant DAW settings such as PAN Law, latency compensation, accuracy of automation (if it's indeed being used), and just for the sake of completeness make sure you have an empty track object selected in both DAWs due to the hybrid mix engines.

Also, are you comparing offline bounces or realtime bounces? Some people insist there's a difference, so perhaps do BOTH for each DAW?

Lastly, if you're mixing & bouncing @ 88.2, what samplerate are the SOURCE audio files at? Are they 88.2 also? Are they being converted upon import to each DAW? Are they 44.1Khz files being converted realtime (realtime SRC) from the DAWs in question?

Again WHAT exactly are you testing?
Old 29th January 2013
  #11
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You're generating midi in real time, and using reverbs in real time. 2 bounces from the same rig won't "null" for a start.

Sort that aspect out, upload the session files as well as just the results and let's see where we get to. I could do 2 different tracks, completely skew the balance (and something has clearly gone wrong here), and say "see they sound different!". The session files have to be available for examination.

Can I just say kudos to the OP for at least trying to prove/test what they believe to be true - regardless of any flaws in his working (which of course need to be eliminated before we accept the results). at least he's not just saying "I hear it!" as so many others do, and seem to think that's reasonable proof.

These files obviously won't null...and I don't think anyone is saying they sound the same. What they ARE saying is that something has gone wrong in the test.

So - bounce all the midi to audio (in one program, then import it into both - it's perfectly possible the RTAS plugin of one synth defaults 3dB higher than the AU version, skewing the test). Remove the reverbs. Upload both sessions. Let's see where we're at!

FWIW - I work in professional audio, and I'm a proud naysayer. I've done enough comparisons to be confident in that.

The example that no-one in these difference hearing tests seems to realise - in pro audio, particularly in post production, audio gets bounced out and imported into PT hundreds of times - during the production of a film for example, or a DVD. If there was a degeneration of audio, or a particular "sound" the program affected the audio with - it would be cumulative, we'd hear it after 5 bounces! No-one who "hears the difference" has ever explained this to me.
Old 29th January 2013
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Well you guys have brought up some interesting points to the discussion.
I think that the test definitely has some flaws to it! however, there is still quite a few things we can take from it, such as how different the same Patches sounds between the two DAWS given in the very beginning of the file. I also hear some difference in clarity towards the end of the track.

Anyhow, so I am really interested in performing maybe other series of tests between the two DAWS, how would YOU design those tests?
Old 29th January 2013
  #13
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Addressing the points psycho and I made would be a good start.
Old 29th January 2013
  #14
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekbo ➡️
Well you guys have brought up some interesting points to the discussion.
I think that the test definitely has some flaws to it! however, there is still quite a few things we can take from it, such as how different the same Patches sounds between the two DAWS given in the very beginning of the file. I also hear some difference in clarity towards the end of the track.

Anyhow, so I am really interested in performing maybe other series of tests between the two DAWS, how would YOU design those tests?
I commend you for taking the time to test yourself and not simple leaving it up to the 'golden ears' Psycho and Valis pointed out some possible flaws and things to look out for. All DAW's have different defaults you have to make sure they match. Automation should not include anything beyond straight lines, even curves influence a mix.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #15
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekbo ➡️
however, there is still quite a few things we can take from it, such as how different the same Patches sounds between the two DAWS given in the very beginning of the file.
All this suggests is that a given manufacturer encodes their RTAS and AU plugin differently (and this may not even be the case, you've got far too many variables going to be able to say this without further testing).
Old 29th January 2013
  #16
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stinkyfingers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
use different efx...

the 'analog' Waves plug-ins used for this will not produce consistent results 100% of the time, so there could be a difference of sound for different plays/renders of the same project within the same DAW...let alone between two different DAWs, and that's besides/on top of the vsti/midi stuff.
try something like (random example) Melda Mcompressor (it's free/cross platform) instead that will null to -inf with itself in one DAW. ('plain' digital efx)
same goes for EQ or whatever, make sure that you can get a null in one DAW before you try and compare between two DAWs...
Old 29th January 2013
  #17
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chrisjones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I did a similar test two years ago. With SSL plugins on every track in a 80+ track session, eq and compressors with the same settings. And the buss compressor on the masterbus. I didn't use any VI's or reverbs. But they nulled!

Problem solver. Set the pan law to -3 in both daws, uncheck dither in Logic when bouncing. In logic every mono track will be + 0.01 dB louder, so put a trim plugin last in the chain on every mono track in either Logic or Pro Tools. Yeah and make sure the bounced files are aligned just in case.

Now go and make music!
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #18
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
All this suggests is that a given manufacturer encodes their RTAS and AU plugin differently (and this may not even be the case, you've got far too many variables going to be able to say this without further testing).
Can also just be pan laws, and I recall a "definitive" test by someone in the past that "proved" Logic handled Kontakt's muiltiple outputs (mult i/o VI's in other words) worse than Cubase until the poster realized that Kontakt was panned in one app but not another.
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