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Recommended OSX for running Logic Pro 9
Old 26th January 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Recommended OSX for running Logic Pro 9

Hi,

I currently run Logic Pro 9.1.8 under Mountain Lion 10.8.2 and having major lagging problems within Logic.. driving me nutz!..

I was thinking of rolling back to Snow Leopard 10.6.8?...

Can anyone confirm if this would be a more suitable OSX version?..

Using a Mac pro 2.92ghz 8 core 2009.

Many Thanks,
Old 26th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
am still on snow leopard, 10.6.8.
other than Logic disk too slow messages which started appearing after i went to logic 9.1.4, snow leopard has been the most stable.
Old 27th January 2013
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Krzysztof's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hello

I recently read through the Apple Logic forum and found a thread that discusses this known issue at length. There is indeed a ML GUI bug with Logic/ML that is related to certain plugin's gui's and the mentioned Logic GUI slowdown......according to the OP (who has had contact with the Logic team), this bug is going to be resolved in the next ML Update.

K
Old 27th January 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I don't see moving from 10.6.8 any time soon!! Stable and smooth!!
Old 27th January 2013
  #5
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I built a sandbox partition to try UAD 64bit with Logic and ML and it is a dog on my 2008 8-core running logic. Periodic CPU spikes causing clicks and pops, even with just a few tracks running.

My 10.6.8 partition will give me 60 tracks at 32 samples without a hiccup.
Old 27th January 2013
  #6
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
That's what i did (go back to 10.6.8). Benchmark score is a little lower but the GUI lag is gone, meaning i could make music again without wanting to punch my screen

When something as simple as a solo or mute button takes 10+ seconds to respond to your mouseclick, then turns on and off 37 more times (because you kept trying to click it after the initial click), it really destroys the fun
Old 27th January 2013
  #7
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If you're experiencing GUI lag, especially if you're on an older machine, PLEASE post your specs (mac model, cpu & gpu). I'm wondering how many of these issues are on older Mac Pros & Macbook Pros (especially pre 8600GT on mobile/iMac & 8800GT on desktop).

If you ARE on a Mac Pro, I suggest getting a 5770 or something comparable that's newer. 2008 systems for instance came with the ATI 2600XT, which was an awful card at the time for GPU based products (cad/3d & gaming on windows etc) and doesn't even work properly for OpenCL & OpenGL applications anymore (including Lion/ML's OpenGL version behind QuartzGL & the OSX gui).

If you're earning a living from your machine and fit this bill, I'd just order the overpriced Mac version (which as typical didn't lower in price over the last 2 years as the 'PC' versions of the same card do). It should be on ebay and available from several retailers too (OWC might still have some). Or if you're on a budget or just geeky/brave you can look into rewriting the card's BIOS with the Mac EFI version from an identical card. This takes a bit of research to make sure your card is 100% compatible and that the images are correct etc, but it can give you a great card for modern GPU accelerated software for ~$150 USD.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis ➑️

If you ARE on a Mac Pro, I suggest getting a 5770 or something comparable that's newer. 2008 systems for instance came with the ATI 2600XT, which was an awful card at the time for GPU based products (cad/3d & gaming on windows etc) and doesn't even work properly for OpenCL & OpenGL applications anymore (including Lion/ML's OpenGL version behind QuartzGL & the OSX gui).
That was my thinking, so I replaced my 2600 with a 5770. I got the Mac version from Apple for $250. It did not solve the problem. I figured it was a long shot, but needed the 5770 to run FC10, which would not even open on the 2600.

But it's more than just a lag for me. I get an audible pop in playing audio when I open or close a plugin window, or even open and close the system preferences window. When it happens, the Logic CPU meter spikes, but Apples activity monitor shows no abnormal event. This does not happen with 10.6.8.
Old 27th January 2013
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis ➑️
If you're experiencing GUI lag, especially if you're on an older machine, PLEASE post your specs
Mid-2011 refurb imac 3.4ghz i7 16gb. Was experiencing the GUI lag on OSX 10.7.4 and Logic 9.1.7, then on 10.7.5 with both 9.1.7 and 9.1.8. Moving back to 10.6.8 eliminated the lag completely. Also 10.6.8 runs 9.1.7 with no GUI lag on my 2.16ghz macbookpro coreduo w/ 2gb ram.

I'm also running a 32" tv as a 2nd monitor via tbolt>hdmi adapter from the imac
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➑️
That was my thinking, so I replaced my 2600 with a 5770. I got the Mac version from Apple for $250. It did not solve the problem. I figured it was a long shot, but needed the 5770 to run FC10, which would not even open on the 2600.
Thanks that's what I wanted to know. I have confirmed on several macs that people have locally (white ones and early Airs) which all use Intel GMA and have Logic GUI issues on 10.7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➑️
But it's more than just a lag for me. I get an audible pop in playing audio when I open or close a plugin window, or even open and close the system preferences window. When it happens, the Logic CPU meter spikes, but Apples activity monitor shows no abnormal event. This does not happen with 10.6.8.
I have a GTX285 eVGA Mac version in my 2008 Mac Pro, 16GB of ram & use Logic 10.7.4 & 9.1.8. No GUI lag issues since 9.1.8 update which fixed a ProKit mismatch issue (stock EQ analyzer lag issue) and I only have 1-2 32bit plugins that lag the GUI when open. I presume it's because they're using older mechanisms that aren't as tied to the GPU to do their work...
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis ➑️
Thanks that's what I wanted to know. I have confirmed on several macs that people have locally (white ones and early Airs) which all use Intel GMA and have Logic GUI issues on 10.7.


I have a GTX285 eVGA Mac version in my 2008 Mac Pro, 16GB of ram & use Logic 10.7.4 & 9.1.8. No GUI lag issues since 9.1.8 update which fixed a ProKit mismatch issue (stock EQ analyzer lag issue) and I only have 1-2 32bit plugins that lag the GUI when open. I presume it's because they're using older mechanisms that aren't as tied to the GPU to do their work...
I don't think what I am experiencing is the lag issue. It's just the CPU spike issue I described. It actually occurs in both Logic and Protools. The strange thing is that Logic CPU Monitor shows the spike, but Activity Monitor just keeps humming along like nothing happened.

My plan is to try 10.7.4 next. I've stuck w/ 10.6.8 but when UAD came out with there latest software, they dropped 10.6 support. I tried Mountain Lion first, figuring if I needed to upgrade, I'd go ahead with the latest OS. I wouldn't have even bothered if UAD didn't require 10.7/10.8.

I will give 10.7.4 a shot and see if I have the same issue.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➑️
I don't think what I am experiencing is the lag issue. It's just the CPU spike issue I described. It actually occurs in both Logic and Protools. The strange thing is that Logic CPU Monitor shows the spike, but Activity Monitor just keeps humming along like nothing happened.

My plan is to try 10.7.4 next. I've stuck w/ 10.6.8 but when UAD came out with there latest software, they dropped 10.6 support. I tried Mountain Lion first, figuring if I needed to upgrade, I'd go ahead with the latest OS. I wouldn't have even bothered if UAD didn't require 10.7/10.8.

I will give 10.7.4 a shot and see if I have the same issue.
Ok if it's cpu spiking then we should track that down, I'm plenty familiar with that. The reason you see the spiking on the CPU monitor in Logic but not Activity Monitor is because there is not a 1:1 correlation between the two. Activity Monitor shows you a view of the physical core loading while Logic's meter is showing 'threads'. Typically you would have the same number of threads as cores that will be AVAILABLE to use (hence the suggestion by many to set to your max cores -1 so you have 1 in reserve for the OS & background tasks to not interrupt audio). Basically Logic splits its work into threads which are not directly tied to cores, and OS X assigns threads to cores dynamically based on what resources available.

You can think about it like OS X rapidly cycling through which threads are eligible to run, and which core is least loaded. The most eligible thread is assigned to the least-loaded core, and as of GCD preferably one that is not in a highly latent sleep state. Of course this simple example ignores the concept of 'thread affinity' which application developers can use to give the OS kernel a bit more input on where to schedule a thread, and sleep states and so on. But this should at least explain why the two CPU meters you're using don't correlate 100%.

As for the cpu spikes, you'd have to look at what plugins you're using and how you're laying out your live input/record armed tracks and their processing, as well as multichannel VI's and so on. Some of this is workflow related in terms of how your audio processing is distributed basically. And some of it is a workflow thing where I for instance start with lower latencies for the live buffer and the smallest mix buffer, and raise both accordingly as processing load increases (if need be).
Old 27th January 2013
  #13
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gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
10.6.8 not budging till x comes out ! ...
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis ➑️

As for the cpu spikes, you'd have to look at what plugins you're using and how you're laying out your live input/record armed tracks and their processing, as well as multichannel VI's and so on. Some of this is workflow related in terms of how your audio processing is distributed basically. And some of it is a workflow thing where I for instance start with lower latencies for the live buffer and the smallest mix buffer, and raise both accordingly as processing load increases (if need be).
I've tried 7, 6, 5, 4 thread setting in Logic. I've disabled all networking devices. I've disabled Spotlight indexing. I've disabled screen saver. This is a fresh install with only Logic, the Symphony64 driver and the UAD-2 driver. This occurs even with just one live Logic track with a single Logic instrument. No UAD plugins loaded, no other Logic plugins loaded. Don't even have to start the transport. I get the spikes on the single armed live track at up to 128 samples for a 44.1k project.

In 10.6.8, I can play any Logic instrument, with Logic plugins at 32 samples, 96k without a hiccup. I can record 16 channels while playing back 16 additional channels at 32 sample buffer without a hiccup. I can do this while using V-control Pro to control the DAW over the network. I can open and close plugin windows, and even open a Safari session without a hiccup.

The fact that the clicks occur more frequently when opening and closing both DAW/Plugin windows and also OSX windows makes me think it is an issue with the way 10.8 handles the PCI-e bus of the older machine? I also have the same issue with PT10HD when using the Symphony64 as the driver. Could be that 10.8.2 doesn't play nice with the Symphony64, but I have the most recent drivers that support 10.8.

10.6.8 is fine, and I'm happy. PT10 isn't 64bit anyway, so UAD 64bit upgrade doesn't apply. I was just experimenting with Logic and UAD in a 64bit environment.
Old 27th January 2013
  #15
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
By the way, I have Logic and an Mbox 3 on my 2009 MBP 13" 2.53 C2D w/ 10.8.3. Logic runs smooth at 32 samples. Am also able to stream Slate Digital Drums triggering live with my TD-15 acting as a USB Audio Device. No problems at 32 sample buffer.
Technically, the MBP is a slower processor, but a faster FSB at 1066mHz as opposed to the MP's 800mHz bus.

There's either an issue with 10.8 and Symphony or 10.8 and 2008 Harpertown. At some point, I'll hook the Mbox to the MBP to see if I can rule out (or pinpoint) the Symphony64 as the culprit..
Old 27th January 2013
  #16
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bigbongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
10.6.8 here too, on a 2007 Mac Pro [ 2 x 3.2 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon ] very stable.
Old 27th January 2013
  #17
Gear Addict
 
MrChick's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
10.6.8 and logic 9.1.7 working fine.
Old 27th January 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thank you guys for all your advice, Im gonna revert back to 10.6.8!

Can anyone confirm if Logic Pro 9.1.8 is stable with 10.6.8 or should I use 9.1.7?..

I use an Apogee Symphony i/o with a Mac Pro (early 2009) 2.93ghz 8 core.

Many Thanks,
Old 28th January 2013
  #19
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bigbongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm using 9.1.4 [ on SL ], it's not perfect [ a few flex time problems here and there ] but pretty stable day to day.
Old 28th January 2013
  #20
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Chiming in on what has been said in the Apple Support Discussion forums, it seems like a general consensus that the GUI issues seems quite random with no proper indication of what the ultimate trigger inducing the delays/unresponsiveness is.

It's a behavior that's been noted as early as 10.7.0, and as late as 10.8.2, with the latest branch of Lion (10.7.4) as well as earliest branch of Mountain Lion (10.8.0) affected as well.

The initial response in the few cases users got an answer from support requests directly to the Apple support team was that there seemed to be certain plugins that were extra good at inducing the issues.

Once these was updated/replace, the support team moved onwards to indicate that there was an issue with Logic itself. They did release a semi-fix for it with 9.1.8, but this did not solve the issue for everyone, and instead it rendered things a bit sluggish in other ways instead, but the extreme unresponsiveness was at least resolved as far as I understood.

After this issue, when users still had problems, someone started to poke higher up in the hierarchy, and the claim is that the OS X CoreAudio team actually had found an issue introduced at the time of Lion (corresponding to the user findings) that caused things.

The issue being related to CoreAudio also means that Logic is not the only application affected by it, and other user stories seems to have linked among other Reaper and GarageBand to it.

A few days back, a new beta of 10.8.3 was released, this time the first one with release notes (which usually indicates that it is about to be released to the public). One of the bullet points for this release was explicitly stated as:
  • A fix for an issue that may cause Logic Pro to become unresponsive when using certain plug-ins

Some users that has had quite a lot of trouble with the issue, that has access to the beta releases, has already reported that it actually has solved the issues for them.

Until 10.8.3 is released to the public, I'm guessing that's as good a confirmation as we can get, and after 10.8.3 is released we will hopefully see the issue resolved.

My guess is (based on the release notes in the beta build) that we'll see the release within two weeks time, but don't hold me to it.

TL;DR: All OS X versions between 10.7.0 - 10.7.4 & 10.8.0 - 10.8.2 has issues with Logic 9. 10.8.3 soon to be released is supposed to fix it. This with all versions of Logic 9, including 9.1.8 which partly improved the problem.
Old 28th January 2013
  #21
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Hopefully 10.7 gets the fix too, not sure i have time to move to 10.8 anytime soon (though I also don't have issues at the moment).
Old 30th April 2013 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodlez ➑️
Can anyone confirm if Logic Pro 9.1.8 is stable with 10.6.8 or should I use 9.1.7?..
I'd like to know the answer to this, also. I'm running 9.1.7 on 10.6.8 with generally good stability and performance. Any reason to update to 9.1.8?
Old 30th April 2013
  #23
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Jolly Jimmy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No problems to speak of here on OS X 10.6.8 and Logic 9.1.8.
Old 30th April 2013 | Show parent
  #24
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Jimmy ➑️
No problems to speak of here on OS X 10.6.8 and Logic 9.1.8.
Same here
Old 30th April 2013
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
No problems here on 10.8.2 with 2012 MBP
Old 30th April 2013
  #26
Gear Nut
 
madmarkdj's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Jimmy ➑️
No problems to speak of here on OS X 10.6.8 and Logic 9.1.8.
Works perfectly here as well!
Old 30th April 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
10.6.8 & 9.1.8 on laptop, doing fine! 10.7.5 & 9.1.8 doing fine too, probably move to 10.8.3 when I have some downtime as I've tested it and get no GUI lag here.
Old 30th April 2013
  #28
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duckoff's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
No problems to speak of here on OS X 10.6.8 and Logic 9.1.8.
+1
Old 30th April 2013
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
My rule of thumb is... If it ain't broke then dont try and fix it!..

What real difference can 10.8.3 offer that 10.6.8 can't (if generaly using for just music production)..?
Old 30th April 2013
  #30
Gear Nut
 
tombot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Nvidia 600 series cards got rid of the problem on Mountain Lion. I tried a 620, then a 650. Seems to be related to GPU speed, the faster the speed the better it got. Number of CUDA cores made no difference.
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