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Is there a plugin that does this?
Old 23rd January 2013
  #1
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Is there a plugin that does this?

Hey guys. Currently trying to find a plugin that gives me almost full control of my L-C-R when mixing. Where I can compress, eq, etc those different sections independently.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #2
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Create 3 groups (bus)

1. L

2. C

3. R


Considering you are mixing LCR, you just need to bus your sounds to the correct group, then you can apply compression and EQ to the groups.

If you are not mixing LCR (pan 30% L for example) this would lead to some complication because a sound panned 30%L comes out from both the L and the R, just different volume.

I do not know why you would want this if you are mixing. You can always EQ the sound and compress it before panning.

Hope this can help.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #3
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Interesting approach.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 23rd January 2013
  #4
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Both Brainworx and Fabfilter have plug-ins that allow you to do that. Keep in mind you won't have independent control over the L-R. You will be able to EQ and/or compress C and L-R independently.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #5
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That's M/S, not LCR...
Old 23rd January 2013
  #6
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True that...
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Fabfilter have plug-ins that allow you to do that. Keep in mind you won't have independent control over the L-R. You will be able to EQ and/or compress C and L-R independently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
That's M/S, not LCR...
For LCR you'd have to chain two instances, one for the mids and one processing left and right independently
A.

Last edited by Andy_bt; 23rd January 2013 at 12:44 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 23rd January 2013
  #8
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I am interested in knowing why you would want to do that. I can think of several reasons why that wouldn't be a good idea. Just curious
Old 23rd January 2013
  #9
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e-are's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkas ➑️
Create 3 groups (bus)

1. L

2. C

3. R


Considering you are mixing LCR, you just need to bus your sounds to the correct group, then you can apply compression and EQ to the groups.

If you are not mixing LCR (pan 30% L for example) this would lead to some complication because a sound panned 30%L comes out from both the L and the R, just different volume.

I do not know why you would want this if you are mixing. You can always EQ the sound and compress it before panning.

Hope this can help.
The only way I'm thinking this could be done is to have the center channel a stereo track that you pan everything that's going to be off center, say no more than -50 to 50, bussed to it assuming you are going to have 3 bus channels setup as your L C R. Seems to me it would be easier to treat individual elements than to do all that. Things could get too complicated.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are ➑️
I am interested in knowing why you would want to do that. I can think of several reasons why that wouldn't be a good idea.
I'd be curious to hear the results though
A.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #11
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AFAIK, it can not be done with MS pluggins.
Also, I don't know of any pluggin which can split your signal into separate L C and R channels.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #12
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Theoretically you could. Send everything to 3 different Busses. With an M/S EQ on one completely lower the L-R gain slider and on the other 2 just do the same to the C. On the 2 busses that are playing back L-R just mute the L on 1 and the R on the other (on some DAWS you just pan hard left and hard right).
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d ➑️
Theoretically you could. Send everything to 3 different Busses. With an M/S EQ on one completely lower the L-R gain slider and on the other 2 just do the same to the C. On the 2 busses that are playing back L-R just mute the L on 1 and the R on the other (on some DAWS you just pan hard left and hard right).

It does not work like that. If you lower the L-R ( side) or the C (Mid) slider it will affect the material because during the decoding process (i.e. making a stereo file from the mid and side stems) you need both mid and side audio.
It will not work if one stem is missing....

Try it :-)
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiance ➑️
It does not work like that. If you lower the L-R ( side) or the C (Mid) slider it will affect the material because during the decoding process (i.e. making a stereo file from the mid and side stems) you need both mid and side audio.
It will not work if one stem is missing....

Try it :-)
I don't think you read it all the way through. I wrote send all to 3 busses. 3 M/S EQs (1 for each buss). On one you remove L-R on the others you remove C and hard pan the ones where you don't have the C. On one buss you'll have M, the other L and the final one R.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #15
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Yes, I did read...:-)

You have to understand that the side stem (the L-R), is a mono signal containing the left side material plus the right side material only the right side has it's phase reversed. Just hard panning this signal will not give you only left or only right side material.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiance ➑️
Just hard panning this signal will not give you only left or only right side material.
It will on Logic Pro for example. When you hard pan to one side the other channel is cut. On the other hand if you use the direction mixer plug-in instead it will act as you say and shift the stereo image to one side.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #17
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Here something to try ....

Turn the C stem in your M/S EQ down. Feed this signal into a direction pluggin set to 0% (set to mono).

You'll end up with silence. This is because the side material is not decoded properly due to the missing mid (C) material (cause you turned it down).

So the the side stem you're hearing when the Mid stem is turned down is the same on both side only one side has it's phase reversed. That's why you think the side material is stereo while in fact it's not.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d ➑️
It will on Logic Pro for example. When you hard pan to one side the other channel is cut. On the other hand if you use the direction mixer plug-in instead it will act as you say and shift the stereo image to one side.
That's not what I'm saying...I know that hard panning will cut the other channel out.
WHat I'm saying is that when you hard pan the Side (L-R) stem, you basically get all side material (L-R) on the left (if you hard pan to the left :-))
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiance ➑️
Here something to try ....

Turn the C stem in your M/S EQ down. Feed this signal into a direction pluggin set to 0% (set to mono).

You'll end up with silence. This is because the side material is not decoded properly due to the missing mid (C) material (cause you turned it down).

So the the side stem you're hearing when the Mid stem is turned down is the same on both side only one side has it's phase reversed. That's why you think the side material is stereo while in fact it's not.
I did the test but don't get silence at all!
Feel free to PM in french
A.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #20
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Luckily I'm still on my lunch break so I could do this little test. Although I didn't route the busses to different outputs you can clearly see from the level meters alone that all 3 busses have different content
Old 23rd January 2013
  #21
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Well, maybe there's more going on in this BX digital pluggin than simple M/S conversion...

May I ask, when those three groups are summed, did the result sound the same as the original stereo file?
Old 23rd January 2013
  #22
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I actually soloed the M on the buss 1 and the L-R on the other 2 busses on the BX EQs. Then I hard panned the last 2 each to one side. It does sound exactly like the original stereo output
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiance ➑️
Well, maybe there's more going on in this BX digital pluggin than simple M/S conversion...

May I ask, when those three groups are summed, did the result sound the same as the original stereo file?
Got silence with Flux plug, going to experiment some more...
Different content with Waves Center
A.

Last edited by Andy_bt; 23rd January 2013 at 03:20 PM.. Reason: Correction
Old 23rd January 2013
  #24
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Ok, did a quick test in Ableton.
First a utility plugin with width set to 200% (this removes the center)
followed by a utility pluggin with width set to 0% (this summes both sides to a mono signal)
Result, Silence...(check the little meters on the pluggins...)
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Is there a plugin that does this?-dsfgdfg.jpg  
Old 23rd January 2013
  #25
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There is you're problem. Both C and L-R have the same content (mid+side). My test doesn't. The Bx EQ removed the side on 1 Buss and the center on the other 2 ones. When I hard panned each of the side busses the opposite side was muted. So each of my busses is outputting different content unlike your test.
Old 23rd January 2013
  #26
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Quote:
bx_digital V2 works in 3 modes(!) including a sophisticated β€œM/S Mastering” mode
I suspect that this so called "sophisticated M/S Mastering mode" does something more than simple M/S conversion.
Whether it really separates the left, right and centre material remains to be seen...

Can someone direct me to a demo version of this pluggin?
Can't find it on the pluggin alliance website...
Old 23rd January 2013
  #27
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Heyclown's Avatar
 
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Use more mono signals/tracks. Then you HAVE exact control over it. In a case where you want to clear up things you unthoughtfully let slide, use Waves Center or similar M/S plugs.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiance ➑️
I suspect that this so called "sophisticated M/S Mastering mode" does something more than simple M/S conversion.
Whether it really separates the left, right and centre material remains to be seen...

Can someone direct me to a demo version of this pluggin?
Can't find it on the pluggin alliance website...
I get the same results with both BX Control and Waves Center, no null
A.
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d ➑️
There is you're problem. Both C and L-R have the same content (mid+side). My test doesn't. The Bx EQ removed the side on 1 Buss and the center on the other 2 ones. When I hard panned each of the side busses the opposite side was muted. So each of my busses is outputting different content unlike your test.
There is no problem :-).
First of all, by setting the width to 200% I'm removing the C (mid) material completely.
What's left is the following:
on the left side we have (L-R)
on the right we have -(L-R)

If you sum these two together they cancel eachother out.

And yes, this side (L-R) material is NOT a representation of the actual side material due to the fact that the Mid (C) material is muted. This affects the side material during the decoding process....

But first we have to make sure what the BX digital pluggin
actually does...cause if it's just normall M/S processing I suspect your test is flawed...
Old 23rd January 2013
  #30
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Live might be doing that but here Bx on 1 buss just has what is common on both L and R. On the other 2 busses it removes what is common. Right?
Now let's deal with the L-R. I have 2 exact signals and by hard panning each one I'm removing the opposite side. From the L I'm removing R and from the R the L. Keep in mind that L-R is not mono. L has different content from from R. So there's no reason why they should null since on 1 side is L-R and on the other is is R-L. Their common content was removed earlier by the Bx EQ.
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