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RETINA OR NON RETINA MBP for Logic pro?
Old 16th September 2012
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
RETINA OR NON RETINA MBP for Logic pro?

I am going to buy a MBP but i am not sure about a retina or non retina.

Please give me your suggestions to......


CONNECTIVITY
With the RETINA, 2 thunderbolt ports,1 HDMI port and 2 USB3 ports.

This seems like a good option. I will be using my HDMI screen at home.
I will use a thunderbolt HDD for my audio and back up, and a focusrite saffire LE firewire interface.

If i was going for the Retina, i could get a thunderbolt-firewire adaptor for the Saffire LE.


With the NON RETINA, 1 thunderbolt port, 1 firewire800 port, 2 USB3 ports, ethernet port.

I would have to get an external thunderbolt drive that has 2 ports so i could daisy chain the HDMI screen using a thunderbolt-HDMI adaptor.
Hopefully there will be a portable bus powered thunderbolt drive that has 2 ports out sometime soon.
I could use a USB3 HDD but i really want to go with Thunderbolt speeds for streaming audio and fast back ups.


OPTICAL DRIVE
With the retina not having one i was thinking about burning CD's for mastering, sending my finished mixes to be duplicated.
In the past i have always sent a CD.
With the Retina i'd need a good quality external drive, like the Apple super drive.
Apple USB SuperDrive - Apple Store (UK)
If someone can give a good alternative to sending finished mixes other than a CD i'd like to hear it.
By having an external drive it kind of cancels out the weight/ size savings of the retina when traveling.


8gb or 16gb of ram with Logic pro @64bit?
Logic seems so efficient @64bit. It seems that 3rd party 64bit plug-ins are much more efficient too. I have used Waves 32bit plug-ins and some of them are very greedy.
I feel that 8gb of ram would be enough, but 16gb would be for sure enough.
I am tempted to get a RETINA that has 8gb of ram as it saves Β£160.00
And with the NON RETINA i can up-grade with cheap 3rd party ram later.

So its either going to be

a NON RETINA 2.3ghz or 2.6ghz MBP with the minimum possible ram ( thats 4gb for the 2.3 and 8gb for the 2.6 ) and the standard low end HDD's.
With Apple care thats Β£1778.00 for the 2.3GHZ and Β£2.078.00 for the 2.6ghz

or

a RETINA 2.6ghz with 8gb or 16gb of ram and 256gb flash drive with apple care.

Thats Β£2178.00 for the 8gb of ram choice and Β£2,338.00 for the 16gb choice.


To boost-up the NON RETINA I already have a good SSD so no extra cost there, but 16gb of ram costs Β£70. I already have a Thunderbolt HDMI adaptor too.
So that would make the NON RETINA totals Β£1850 and Β£2150.


For the RETINAS i might have to buy a Apple superdrive Β£65.00, a thunderbolt ether-net adaptor Β£25.00 and a thunderbolt firewire adaptor Β£30.00.
This would make the 2 RETINA choices Β£2298 and Β£2458.


I am quite sure that any of the above options would make great logic pro work horses. I work mainly with audio, up to 30 tracks usually and at times up to 10 tracks of software instruments at the same time.
I like to use 3rd party plug-ins like "old timer" and "Kramer MPX" tape saturation etc, so they might warrant the faster processor and 16gb of ram.

I think if one is going for the RETINA, the 2.6ghz is only Β£100.00 more than the 2.3ghz, thats a no-brainer to go for the 2.6ghz option.

The battery in the RETINA is replaceable when it dies in the future and maybe the flash drive could be replaced by a trustworthy repairer when and if it dies.

The HI-RES option with the NON RETINA is a no go option for me. The text with logic is to small for me and lowering the resolution made it look worse than the standard screen at the same resolution, don't know why. I tested this at an apple store yesterday.
The RETINA screen is just superb, no massive reflections from around the room, and when i lowered the resolution to something like 1200x800 it still all looked razor sharp!! The screen is a big plus point.

So i am very close to making my choice, please give me your thoughts. Thanks.
Old 16th September 2012
  #2
GCL
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Once you get used to looking at the retina screen, it's very hard to work with standard monitors again. This is a reason not to get the rMBP, IMO. Everything else looks fuzzy to me now, so I've made the retina my main display, choosing it over my 27" thunderbolt display. Just something to keep in mind.

The rMBP can handle anything I throw at it, not quite the case with my 2011 2.3 Ghz/16 GB RAM MBP with an OWC SSD I used to have (the 2011 model is very similar to the 2012 non-retina MBP).

The rMBP is so much quieter than my old one, and the fans never come on in audio apps like Logic. This was not the case with my old MBP.

I was also burned (figuratively) by faulty OWC SSDs on numerous occasions with old MBP; I'm hoping the Apple's 768 GB of solid-state built-in memory on my rMBP is more reliable.

The rMBP is the best computer I've ever owned (and ever seen).
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL ➑️
Once you get used to looking at the retina screen, it's very hard to work with standard monitors again. This is a reason not to get the rMBP, IMO. Everything else looks fuzzy to me now, so I've made the retina my main display, choosing it over my 27" thunderbolt display. Just something to keep in mind.

The rMBP can handle anything I throw at it, not quite the case with my 2011 2.3 Ghz/16 GB RAM MBP with an OWC SSD I used to have (the 2011 model is very similar to the 2012 non-retina MBP).

The rMBP is so much quieter than my old one, and the fans never come on in audio apps like Logic. This was not the case with my old MBP.

I was also burned (figuratively) by faulty OWC SSDs on numerous occasions with old MBP; I'm hoping the Apple's 768 GB of solid-state built-in memory on my rMBP is more reliable.

The rMBP is the best computer I've ever owned (and ever seen).
Cheers mate, good to hear your loving it.
Old 16th September 2012
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just a little question:

it's possible to upgrade the rMBP SDD drives later. I hear you're stuck with what you buy!
I was thinking about buying one with 256gig SSD and upgrade later!
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdy ➑️
Just a little question:

it's possible to upgrade the rMBP SDD drives later. I hear you're stuck with what you buy!
I was thinking about buying one with 256gig SSD and upgrade later!
According to Apple it is not changable.
With Applecare i was told by someone at apple that the SSD would be changed if it failed, so make of that what you will!
I guess with skill and determination a SSD must be able to be removed and replaced?
Old 16th September 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Regular MBP no question, especially for music.
Old 16th September 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablatom ➑️
With the retina not having one i was thinking about burning CD's for mastering, sending my finished mixes to be duplicated.
In the past i have always sent a CD.
GS cognescenti have determined that optical is passe'. Since you wrote "in the past", I think you've played into their hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablatom ➑️
By having an external drive it kind of cancels out the weight/ size savings of the retina when traveling.
That's the price you pay for having the new thing that doesn't include old tech.
Old 17th September 2012
  #8
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Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Non-retina. That way you have the firewire port and you're not paying for nonsense.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Boreal's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth ➑️
Non-retina. That way you have the firewire port and you're not paying for nonsense.
The thing is... the retina comes with 500 GB Flash HD. Whereas regular MBP you would have to pay ~$300 to upgrade to this hard drive, roughly the price increase of a retina. So if you want Flash HD retina is definitely bang for your buck.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➑️
GS cognescenti have determined that optical is passe'. Since you wrote "in the past", I think you've played into their hands.

Yes, looks like i will use Yousendit to send Waveburner projects.
I have used Yousendit for sending clients progress mixes.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude ➑️
Regular MBP no question, especially for music.
Can you be more specific?
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth ➑️
Non-retina. That way you have the firewire port and you're not paying for nonsense.
By nonsense are you refering to the thunderbolt- firewire adaptor?
Old 17th September 2012
  #13
GCL
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Who needs Firewire any more? If you need it there's a small adapter and it works. I'd much rather have 2 Thunderbolt and 2 USB 3 ports, not to mention HDMI. The whole reason I got the rMBP was for this better connectivity. Plus, fooling with 3rd party SSD system drives with my old laptop, I've had no less than 3 OWC SSD drives brick out. No more fooling around for me with non-factory BS. That's my 2 cents.
Old 17th September 2012
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I took much longer than I normally would when just upgrading to a new MBP to decide between the rMBP and cMBP.

I chose the cMBP in the end for the following reasons:

- I can put two SSD drives in it and upgrade them in a couple of years. Won't be long until 1TB SSDs are 'affordable' and having a mobile system with 2TB SSD in invaluable for me as I do a lot of video work on site

- I still need to plug into gigabit ethernet and don't fancy the hassle of carrying an adaptor + the extra cost

- I have a FF800 and don't want to carry a Thunderbolt > FW adaptor either + the extra cost

- I can easily upgrade and user-replace the RAM if needed

The things I like about the rMBP (apart from the screen)

- Plug in multiple monitors easily - Though I decided I will get a Thunderbolt display and can daisy chain off that using the cMBP anyhow.

So, for me it was a no-brainer to get the cMBP. The only thing I'm missing is a nicer screen (though I work on external monitors all the time anyway) and the weight saving - which isn't enough for me to be concerned about.

So it entirely depends on how you are going to use the machine now and in the future.

If I was looking for a laptop just for Logic, and surfing on the couch then I would have 'maybe' gone for the rMBP - hope that helps.
Old 17th September 2012
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by woenvlgo ➑️
Well, you know, you just pray to Jesus.
LOL Iv'e been doing that! praying to the devine all pervading forum!
Jesus always says, "do what you want, just relax and be happy!!"
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL ➑️
Who needs Firewire any more? If you need it there's a small adapter and it works. I'd much rather have 2 Thunderbolt and 2 USB 3 ports, not to mention HDMI. The whole reason I got the rMBP was for this better connectivity. Plus, fooling with 3rd party SSD system drives with my old laptop, I've had no less than 3 OWC SSD drives brick out. No more fooling around for me with non-factory BS. That's my 2 cents.
I hear ya.

Bummer about the 3 ssd's. Thats the good thing with applecare if something goes wrong, well for 3 years anyway. I have put in 3rd party items into computers in the past and they have never failed.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig32768 ➑️
I took much longer than I normally would when just upgrading to a new MBP to decide between the rMBP and cMBP.

I chose the cMBP in the end for the following reasons:

- I can put two SSD drives in it and upgrade them in a couple of years. Won't be long until 1TB SSDs are 'affordable' and having a mobile system with 2TB SSD in invaluable for me as I do a lot of video work on site

- I still need to plug into gigabit ethernet and don't fancy the hassle of carrying an adaptor + the extra cost

- I have a FF800 and don't want to carry a Thunderbolt > FW adaptor either + the extra cost

- I can easily upgrade and user-replace the RAM if needed

The things I like about the rMBP (apart from the screen)

- Plug in multiple monitors easily - Though I decided I will get a Thunderbolt display and can daisy chain off that using the cMBP anyhow.

So, for me it was a no-brainer to get the cMBP. The only thing I'm missing is a nicer screen (though I work on external monitors all the time anyway) and the weight saving - which isn't enough for me to be concerned about.

So it entirely depends on how you are going to use the machine now and in the future.

If I was looking for a laptop just for Logic, and surfing on the couch then I would have 'maybe' gone for the rMBP - hope that helps.
You make all the points about the cMBP, (what does the "c" standfor?) why i would want one.

I already have a quality SSD that i could use, so no expense there.

I also have an external monitor but not an Apple. That would take out the THUNDERBOLT port on a cMBP.
I guess using USB3 drives are still very fast.
I would like to have bus powered external drives and there are no bus powered thunderbolt drives with daisy chaining (2 ports).
I have been getting by with a firewire 800 external drive, so USB3 is going to be still a big leap in performance.
But of course a Tbolt drive would be fab. Well i am sure that soon there will be bus powered Tbolt drives with 2 ports.

And yes surely SSD drives will get cheaper.

HMM, 2 x 1 terrabit SSD's in the near future, that is a good idea.

Would you ever run them in RAID 0?

Still the rMBP is a good option.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreal ➑️
The thing is... the retina comes with 500 GB Flash HD. Whereas regular MBP you would have to pay ~$300 to upgrade to this hard drive, roughly the price increase of a retina. So if you want Flash HD retina is definitely bang for your buck.
110% not true. The base retina comes with 256GB SSD. The upgrade to 512GB flash storage is SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS MORE. I do not understand why anyone would buy the Apple SSD, especially when you can get drives so darned cheap elsewhere now. Besides, Apple doesn't even mfr their SSDs, Hitachi or someone else does. The markup is huge. Replacing one of these things is cake - probably no harder than installing DAW software.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablatom ➑️
Can you be more specific?
Storage and RAM. Unless you have US$3,700 lying around then I'd say go for it. Consider a comparable retina MBP would cost you nearly two thousand dollars more than a base MBP which can be upgraded to 98% the same spec for a couple hundred dollars.

For $2,100 I have a:

Base mid 15" 2012 cMBP (c = "classic")
240GB SSD
750GB HDD in the second bay
16GB RAM

In a comparable retina model it's close to $4,000 all that. Besides, when 512GB and 1TB SSDs come down to earth, I can just pop my cover open and swap the drives out. Same when we start seeing 32GB RAM. With the retina, you are stuck with whatever config you order because the RAM is soldered to the mobo.

One caveat is that the retina SSD looks more like a RAM stick and you can already buy replacements but they are very expensive (OWC sells a 480GB retina SSD replacement for $580).

If you don't need a ton of storage, the retina might be fine. The screen is beautiful on those but usability and convenience outweighs the screen for me.
Old 17th September 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
rMBP is on the "bleeding" edge. Give it a couple years... Apple's always a little too far ahead of itself and it takes everyone else a while to catch up... The early adopters get "cut" in terms of not being able to fully take advantage of new features at the added expense of paying for this new tech innovation...

rMBP is the future of laptops, for sure, but the present day is still grounded in Firewire and USB interfaces. Not much going on with Thunderbolt for audio. Firewire audio interfaces and drives are still more than sufficient for audio work and a LOT cheaper than the few TB options out there.

Plus the other reasons listed in the thread mean the base model is the best choice, IMO.
Old 17th September 2012
  #21
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I just bought the new MacBook Pro 15" without retina, but I also bought the thunderbolt display 27". Im going to use it mostly at home, for liverecording the 15" is good enuff.
Old 17th September 2012
  #22
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I just ordered a Samsung 830 series SSD 256GB that I will be putting into a refurbished 2012 MBP. The 830 seems to be the current speed/size/value champ.

Note that the 256GB and 512GB have faster write speeds than the 64GB and 128GB.

.edited for clarification
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by globularballoon ➑️
I just ordered a Samsung 830 series SSD 256GB that I will be putting into a refurbished '12 MBP. The 830 seems to be the current speed/size/value champ.

Note that the 256GB and 512GB have faster write speeds than the 64GB and 128GB.
Do you mean refurbished '13 mbp?
I also have the Samsung 830 256 SSD, if i do go with the cMBP i will stick that inside.

HEAR IS A FUNNY THING.

At Apple UK a refurbished 2012 2.3GHZ cMBP is the same price as a refurbished 2011 2.2ghz MBP!!
The 2011 has a 750gb 5400 HDD and the 2012 has a 500gb 5400 HDD, but so what?
The 2012 has USB3 and if Geekbench means anything the 2012 model is 1000 points better.
Old 17th September 2012
  #24
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablatom ➑️
Do you mean refurbished '13 mbp?
I also have the Samsung 830 256 SSD, if i do go with the cMBP i will stick that inside.

HEAR IS A FUNNY THING.

At Apple UK a refurbished 2012 2.3GHZ cMBP is the same price as a refurbished 2011 2.2ghz MBP!!
The 2011 has a 750gb 5400 HDD and the 2012 has a 500gb 5400 HDD, but so what?
The 2012 has USB3 and if Geekbench means anything the 2012 model is 1000 points better.
I meant 2012 actually. The baseline 15".

The newer models have faster RAM, USB3, and Thunderbolt. Personally, I wouldn't even consider a 2011 model.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Breaks Dude's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings ➑️
rMBP is on the "bleeding" edge. Give it a couple years... Apple's always a little too far ahead of itself and it takes everyone else a while to catch up... The early adopters get "cut" in terms of not being able to fully take advantage of new features at the added expense of paying for this new tech innovation...

rMBP is the future of laptops, for sure, but the present day is still grounded in Firewire and USB interfaces. Not much going on with Thunderbolt for audio. Firewire audio interfaces and drives are still more than sufficient for audio work and a LOT cheaper than the few TB options out there.

Plus the other reasons listed in the thread mean the base model is the best choice, IMO.
Keep in mind this new retina MBP is a lot like the first MB Airs...they had quite a few limitations but got better during subsequent revisions.

Besides, if you plan on using your retina machine with a big external monitor, you're not going to have "retina" resolution on that screen, only whatever resolution the monitor supports. If you are only working on the MB retina screen then that's different. I have to wonder that, if a 27" retina monitor actually existed, if this crop of MacBooks could even power it without serious GPU and CPU drain. You're talking 2x the pixels the current retina screen already has to push around.
Old 18th September 2012
  #26
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I have the 15" MBP non Retina with 2,3 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, Samsung 512 GB SSD, instead of the internal DVD a second HDD (Toshiba 1 TB) (with "hardwrk kit", replaces the internal DVD in to an external box).
On the Thunderbolt port i have my 27" Cinema Display, on Firewire the Apogee Ensemble.

The performance with Logic is amazing, i do not need my 8-Core Mac Pro (2,4 GHz, 2010) any longer....
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphastate ➑️
I have the 15" MBP non Retina with 2,3 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, Samsung 512 GB SSD, instead of the internal DVD a second HDD (Toshiba 1 TB) (with "hardwrk kit", replaces the internal DVD in to an external box).
On the Thunderbolt port i have my 27" Cinema Display, on Firewire the Apogee Ensemble.

The performance with Logic is amazing, i do not need my 8-Core Mac Pro (2,4 GHz, 2010) any longer....
+1 JUST ordered the same, thanks to your post.

Thanks to everyone for helping. GS is a good place to chat
Old 19th September 2012
  #28
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I think I'll be going with the rMBP, and add a single slot PCIe>TB which will house a 3 port FW card. It seems like this will offer the least upgrade headache as my converter, drives, and UAD processor all run on firewire. Theoretically I'll be able to process 3 firewire's worth of data through a single thunderbolt line, assuming the card will run all FW ports at full bandwidth. OWC is selling the chassis for around $350, and the FW cards average around $60.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
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Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablatom ➑️
By nonsense are you refering to the thunderbolt- firewire adaptor?
No.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallybertini ➑️
I think I'll be going with the rMBP, and add a single slot PCIe>TB which will house a 3 port FW card. It seems like this will offer the least upgrade headache as my converter, drives, and UAD processor all run on firewire. Theoretically I'll be able to process 3 firewire's worth of data through a single thunderbolt line, assuming the card will run all FW ports at full bandwidth. OWC is selling the chassis for around $350, and the FW cards average around $60.
So, you're paying MORE for less function? If you're wanting to do something like that, just get the Belkin TB everything hub.

Just get the classic MBP. Don't know about you, but a small screen with high resolution equals tiny icons and nearly unreadable text. The standard "better" Rez is the better way to go. ALL MBP's support high Rez on a large screen where it's actually useful.
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