Quantcast
Plugin and DAW controllers. - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Plugin and DAW controllers.
View Poll Results: Which type of controller (read thread first)?
Just a controller
0 Votes - 0%
Mouse buttons and movement
1 Votes - 33.33%
Mouse movements, click knob to do mouse buttons
2 Votes - 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

Old 15th September 2012
  #1
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Plugin and DAW controllers.

So, I have noticed that people who mix ITB like to have physical controllers for all their software. The problem is, those controllers end up being A LOT of money. Who wants to spend a thousand dollars on a controller for a $500 dollar DAW? The PreSonus Faderport was a really good idea that accounted for fader levels, panning and automation, but what about plugins? I want to apply the philosophy of the faderport to a plugin controller. I have a few different designs I am thinking of, and I want some feedback on which to go with.

Option 1: A simple, one knob controller. It would be similar to the Griffin Powermate, but it would look like the attached picture.

Option 2: Please look at the attached picture. On the bottom of the controller, it would have four depressions to put your fingers in and move the controller around. The controller will have a mouse function. Left and right mouse buttons will be to the sides of the knob. All mouse functions can be switched off if you want.

Option 3: Same as option 2, but left mouse button will be replaced by knob click, and right mouse button will be pushing down the knob for 3 seconds.
Attached Images
File Type: png lsr.png (95.3 KB, 2091 views)
Old 15th September 2012
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji
I want to apply the philosophy of the faderport to a plugin controller. I have a few different designs I am thinking of, and I want some feedback on which to go with.
Glad to see you're thinking, that's a good thing

I wrote some support for the Mackie C4 for Reaper, and I grew up on analog.

Just one person's opinion, but I think you need more than one knob.

A perfect example is a compressor.

You often want to adjust the Threshold and Gain Makeup simultaneously (or at least have the illusion that they are being adjusted simultaneously).

There are many more examples.

Just my 0.02c

Good luck with your ideas, always good to push the envelope !
Old 15th September 2012
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
stoplaughing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I agree...more than one knob necessary. I rely on fader automation so no fader would rule it out for me. What about a single fader with 3 or 4 encoders next to it? Almost like a channel strip . One of the bigger issues cost wise you might not be considering is licensing whatever protocol your controller would use. Wether it's EUCON/hui etc someone is going to make you pay to use it and it won't be cheap.
Old 16th September 2012
  #4
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
For plug-ins, I like that guy who had a monitor screen with holes drilled in it and the knobs mounted in the holes. The plug-in displays "around" the knobs, so there is no need for 'abbreviations' and guesswork as to which knob does what as you switch from EQ to compressor to reverb.

for me a one-knob controller just won't cut it

some plug-ins have so many functional knobs that by the time you select the knobs you want to be assigned to a controller, you might as well have used the mouse

you would need the mouse to click on the "knob in question" to send it to the controller, right?

there are a few things I want to "play" with in real time, but 95% of my knob-grabbing is to make one adjustment and move on

ps- if you change your image to a .jpg is will show as a thumbnail instead of making the user download it to open it.

At least this is how .pngs seem to work on both my browsers.
Old 16th September 2012
  #5
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
You would mouse over a plugin knob then move the controller knob. It will be a mouse with a vertical scroll wheel pretty much. Have you ever used a scroll wheel to adjust a control? I should have mentioned that.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington ➑️
Glad to see you're thinking, that's a good thing

I wrote some support for the Mackie C4 for Reaper, and I grew up on analog.

Just one person's opinion, but I think you need more than one knob.

A perfect example is a compressor.

You often want to adjust the Threshold and Gain Makeup simultaneously (or at least have the illusion that they are being adjusted simultaneously).

There are many more examples.

Just my 0.02c

Good luck with your ideas, always good to push the envelope !
The simplicity and cost effectiveness thrive on the fact that it only has one knob. Multiple knobs would destroy the simplicity (by requiring mapping and DAW support and MIDI etc.) and gradually increase the cost.
Old 16th September 2012
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
stoplaughing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji ➑️
The simplicity and cost effectiveness thrive on the fact that it only has one knob. Multiple knobs would destroy the simplicity (by requiring mapping and DAW support and MIDI etc.) and gradually increase the cost.
If you're set on one knob go for it, but even with one knob you still need to have DAW support, mapping and a protocol. Let's say you open a reverb plug. How does your controller connect to the parameters of the reverb? How do you select which parameter the knob is automating ?
Old 16th September 2012
  #8
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
You mouse over it and move the knob. The knob would send scroll information to the plugin.
Old 16th September 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have a Griffin...a Mouse...and 24+1 MCU faders.

Who wants to spend the money are people who need to use the app. I've reverse engineered my stuff with and without--and plain and simple, I make different, more granular choices with a 100mm fader than with a mouse.

That said, with a VST3 app like recent Cubase and Waves releases, the "focus knob" works pretty well in combo with the mouse for plug in adjustment--the thing that the MCU doesn't do (well).

Re: an expensive controller for $500 DAW...totally wrong perspective. But, I do agree they're overpriced due to really only a small market buying them.
Old 16th September 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hover mouse over plugin knob and use physical controller knob and that ****'ll sell like hotcakes
Old 16th September 2012
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji
The simplicity and cost effectiveness thrive on the fact that it only has one knob. Multiple knobs would destroy the simplicity (by requiring mapping and DAW support and MIDI etc.) and gradually increase the cost.
Cool, got it.

Quote:
You mouse over it and move the knob. The knob would send scroll information to the plugin.
So it just replaces scrolling the mouse wheel.

Once again just my opinion but I wouldn't spend money on something that does this little.

Oh and you'd have to replace the native mouse driver to accomplish this wouldn't you?
Old 16th September 2012
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
stoplaughing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington ➑️
Cool, got it.



So it just replaces scrolling the mouse wheel.

Once again just my opinion but I wouldn't spend money on something that does this little.

Oh and you'd have to replace the native mouse driver to accomplish this wouldn't you?
You wouldn't have to replace the driver. At least on Mac you can have more than one source feeding the OS mouse data, but I think you'd need a small program running in the background of the computer to assist. The computer won't recognize two separate mice plugged into the computer, but you can use some form of control data (MIDI) to send info to the mouse.

I some how missed your post about it working like a mouse- sorry for the redundant question earlier. If you're convinced this will improve your workflow, keep working on the idea. Do you have a midi controller with a jog wheel available to you to run some tests? Or really any midi controller with an encoder fader etc..I might be able to help you get the MIDI to mouse stuff figured out. Not my ideal controller, but if it works for you, I'm happy to help.
Old 16th September 2012
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoplaughing
I some how missed your post about it working like a mouse- sorry for the redundant question earlier
Miscommunication, I'm not the OP, I'm attempting to answer him
Old 16th September 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
MickeyMassacre's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Frontier Alpha track which was discontinued due to a lack of interest was one fader, pan knob, digital read out, scrub wheel function and 3 knobs that controlled plug ins. The device everyone seems to want... Now.
Old 16th September 2012
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
stoplaughing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMassacre ➑️
Frontier Alpha track which was discontinued due to a lack of interest was one fader, pan knob, digital read out, scrub wheel function and 3 knobs that controlled plug ins. The device everyone seems to want... Now.
I never knew about the alpha track. Looks like a decent solution. I just saw one on eBay for $80. Not bad. Is it HUI? This seems more like what I was suggesting in my first post in this thread.
Old 16th September 2012
  #16
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I think I will just stick with a Griffin and a mouse, seems a lot of work for something that only slightly improves the workflow.
Old 16th September 2012
  #17
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
For plug-ins, I like that guy who had a monitor screen with holes drilled in it and the knobs mounted in the holes. The plug-in displays "around" the knobs, so there is no need for 'abbreviations' and guesswork as to which knob does what as you switch from EQ to compressor to reverb.
The Studer "Vistasonics" system? It looks amazing..never seen it in action, or had a chance to use it. How amazing would that be in a 16knob config, with a set of 8 faders beneath it? Kind of Avid ArtistMix sized, or maybe a bit deeper, the size of a laptop footprint...16 knobs would be enough for most plugins, and it would map with labels instantly displayed. I'd buy one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji ➑️
You would mouse over a plugin knob then move the controller knob. It will be a mouse with a vertical scroll wheel pretty much. Have you ever used a scroll wheel to adjust a control? I should have mentioned that.
It's a nice idea..I think in practice it would be a bit fiddly though. I think it's one of those things that sounds great in theory, but in practice would mostly go unused.

We had a faderport at the studio I used to rent...bought on the insistence of a client, but rarely used after that. One fader is no use for balancing, and for the few times a "real time" ride would have been superior to mousing, it wasn't worth dragging it out.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
The Studer "Vistasonics" system? It looks amazing..never seen it in action, or had a chance to use it.
I don't know that one
this is a guy in Brazil who made his own
It is a screen with encoder knobs on it. I think they are actually glued onto the surface not holes drilled, but same diff. The plug ins display around the physical knobs so that when you change plugs, the legends and so on shift but the physical knobs obviously stay put. (He uses some other device for faders.) This sits off to the side and is just for plugs.

It apparently only works with Cubase. I don't know how he gets them to always line up to the knobs, since on my DAW, every plug in is laid out different. Maybe these are custom skins.

It doesn't look fiddly at all, it looks totally straight-forward. Select the plug and grab the knob! There are enough knobs for every parameter and some plugs seem to even have some unused knobs. Every encoder seems to display a pointer that is on the screen, so you see the status as well as have the control.

It would probably take some high level of standardization to make this available for the masses, and for all brands of plugs, but I would buy this in a heartbeat even though it might cost way more than my DAW software!

In the Youtube, the plug-in controller is featured more towards the end of the video. In the two stills I have, that is the same set of knobs but with different plugs displaying around the knobs.
Attached Thumbnails
Plugin and DAW controllers.-controller-1.jpg   Plugin and DAW controllers.-controller-3.jpg  
Old 17th September 2012
  #19
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Studer - [Studer Vista 5 SR]

Pretty impressive doing a DIY version though!
Old 17th September 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Essentially I am reasonably happy with my Remote Zero SL and Automap with a few nice-to-haves (motorised,recallable faders) it would be perfect.

Automap isn't for everyone, but if you invest the time in setting up templates, you can have a pretty consistent plugin experience with hardware.

I can do 95% of what I need with my Duende plugs using the Remote SL wthout looking.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
sexy!
some of the videos show the "screen-behind-the-knobs" concept at work. It seems to also include some touch-screen stuff to activate a section or change it, but the adjustment is always by the physical encoder.

It looks like it's a digital mixer as opposed to a DAW controller, though.

I think this is the way things should end up going. Touch screens ultimately have the same unsatisfying virtuality as mousing, and without the precision.

totally dedicated knobs take up too much space and may not account for unusual or specialized plugins.

Traditional hardware controllers with multi-function knobs often suffer from poor status display, crappy LED abbreviations, and confusing layout. Like trying to use a Digi 002 to control your EQ plugs.

I would jump on something that offered this, even with just a handful of knobs.
Quote:
Pretty impressive doing a DIY version though!
It looks like the wires are literally taped down on the screen.

I would love to know how he got the plugs to line up and display their pointers always right on the location of the encoders, and if his system supports 3rd Party plugs, Cubase-only plugs, or if he made his own plug-ins to fit the controller.

If some major marketing muscle got behind this idea and created a standard, plug-in designers could include the protocol.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #22
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
sexy!
some of the videos show the "screen-behind-the-knobs" concept at work. It seems to also include some touch-screen stuff to activate a section or change it, but the adjustment is always by the physical encoder.
Yeah, I think that's kind of the point - the physicality of the knobs, but the versatility of a changing backdrop. Kind of taking the Euphonix CS concept a step further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
It looks like it's a digital mixer as opposed to a DAW controller, though.
Yeah, for broadcast and stuff. The concept, if it could be brought in at an Avid Artist price point - would be amazing - if you could map most plugins onto a 16knob interface, with touchscreen buttons (real buttons would be better, but could hamper the layout more..I think you can get away with touchscreen for that if the knobs are real).
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4616 views: 614810
Avatar for smoke
smoke 7th May 2021
replies: 98 views: 38931
Avatar for dfghdhr
dfghdhr 5th June 2021
replies: 55 views: 27467
Avatar for pawel12
pawel12 19th December 2015
replies: 32 views: 13205
Avatar for fatboym
fatboym 11th April 2020
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump