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Best OSX version for Logic 9
Old 10th September 2012
  #31
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkster ➡️
10.6.8. Very happy!
I'm wondering if 10.7 run logic snippier than 10.6?

I just got a halted overload simply by selecting a ultra beats track,coming from an external MIDI track.

With only 2 other ultra beat tracks loaded.so I now ram wasn't the issue.

I'm wondering does 10.7 and/or 64 logic remedies this kind of overload.

My daw of choice run even better in 64 bit mode.

If logic X is as expected,I promise to get a 27 inch i7 quad!

Sent from my PC36100
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have a iMac i7 2.7 running 64 bit mode. Really impressive machine.
Old 10th September 2012
  #33
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The reason you get the overload is because Logic has a 'mix' buffer for all unselected tracks that runs at a higher internal latency for more efficiency (usually 1024 samples with the medium setting iirc). And then when you select a track it gets thrown into 'live mode' on a single core--typically your last core--along with any other tracks which are in the same 'signal path' downstream from your selected track and any tracks which are set to 'live monitoring' (the little orange icon next to the 'R' that allows you to record arm a track).

Ie, selecting the UB track caused your processing load to actually increase by switching it to the low latency 'live input' processing buffer. Check Apple's Logic related info on their site and the Logic manual for more info...
Old 10th September 2012
  #34
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis ➡️
The reason you get the overload is because Logic has a 'mix' buffer for all unselected tracks that runs at a higher internal latency for more efficiency (usually 1024 samples with the medium setting iirc). And then when you select a track it gets thrown into 'live mode' on a single core--typically your last core--along with any other tracks which are in the same 'signal path' downstream from your selected track and any tracks which are set to 'live monitoring' (the little orange icon next to the 'R' that allows you to record arm a track).

Ie, selecting the UB track caused your processing load to actually increase by switching it to the low latency 'live input' processing buffer. Check Apple's Logic related info on their site and the Logic manual for more info...
After all this and you still give me the red carpet treatment valis,as I said your a great person!


So there is no improving this overload?because there is also the pause thing I've mentioned in another thread.

Arming and disarming record mode on different tracks,then getting pauses but no overload(though I got them before,not lately when arming a track).

is it because each track has a different set up and some are getting 'thrown in live mode',if its in a different signal path?or are all audio channels in live mode already?


Sent from my PC36100
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
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valis's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY ➡️
is it because each track has a different set up and some are getting 'thrown in live mode',if its in a different signal path?or are all audio channels in live mode already?
Not just the track but any bussing related to it. You might just get a 'gap' in the send going to reverb/delay busses for instance, but if you're routing the output of that track to a 'group bus' in parallel even with other unselected tracks mixed in (whether those also get thrown into live mode is really depending on the bussing in question, in most cases they don't but the bussing downstream from your track dows).

Also it gets WORSE and WORSE have an output or 'master' bus plugin doing limiting or anything related to FFT processing, cab modelling etc (where a plugin might have a large internal latency). These plugins have to recognize the buffer size change *as well as Logic shifting all the audio around to keep PDC compensated properly with some of the tracks changing latency etc.

This is why a multi-output VI's first set of auxes also get thrown onto the same core as the VI instrument, because PDC can keep everything phase coherent exiting these auxes as it goes into and out of live mode including any complex downstream parallel bussing.

So imagine a Kontakt instance that's running at 1024 'mix' buffer with 8 'programs' each, one possibly doing 'drums', another doing a 'breakbeat' and 6 others doing various monophonic and polyphonic instrumentation. You might have 4 simpler Kontakt outputs routing directly to a Logic aux each, with simple processing and bussing on each channel and 'downstream' for group bussing. Yet that same Kontakt instance runnning drums where you also split out each drum sound for the main drum bits (kick/snare/toms/hats etc) to process each indvidually with eq and a bit of 'attacker' or compression etc...before sending them to a group bus where you're using a 'group' bus compression plugin that maybe has 30 samples of internal latency (stacked on top of the 1024 buffer) causing all other parallel Kontakt
outputs to already get delayed by 30 samples by Logic to stay inline with the drums...and then maybe you strap Guitar Rig over the last set of outputs (playing god knows what) or decide to do some multi-gig piano with 'realistic reverb spaces' (FIR reverb internal to Kontakt) causing all of Kontakt's output to be offset by say another 256 samples...so now we're at 286+1024 samples total 'delay' for those tracks in the main 'mix buffer'. So let's just select ANYTHING in that processing chain or throw any of those into 'live mode' by input monitoring somewhere just to add a few notes...and now your 64sample 'live mode buffer' has to take over for the 1024 sample buffer and Logic has to think real fast to re-align all the downstream channels/groups/auxes again. Throw a limiter on the end of the mix and a highly latent 'space designer' preset or two...and the need for the 'low latency' button in Logic starts to be come apparent (those last 2 will just get bypassed or switched to equivalent but low latency modes with smaller buffers but possibly higher cpu load).

At the very least you'll get some noticeable gap or glitch somewhere with complex routing like that. Also the original 1024 sample 'mix buffer' exists primarily to make it POSSIBLE to run things more efficiently than otherwise so swapping 10% of your plugin load (maybe loading up 1 core to 1/3) @ 1024 samples down to 64samples might suddenly cause it to become 40% of your plugin load or MORE THAN ONE CORE CAN HANDLE....and cue the typical complaint about Logic's behavior.

In any case Logic's PDC behavior is based on an Algorithm that's not exposed to my eyes, and is now complicated by the Live mode / Mix buffer issues (PT has 'gained' this feature now too btw to improve efficiency). But having to MANUALLY compensate before PDC even existed, I assure you that something similar to what I outlined above is occuring and it's exactly why using PDC + DSP cards + Logic starts to feel so incredibly 'off' to many people (especially in regards to the SPL lining up with audio playback).

What I do is:
- route the FIRST set of outputs of VI's to auxes as normal but do NO inserts or sends here. instead set the outputs of these auxes to *another* bus/aux pair and then insert all processing on THOSE auxes. Suddenly any of these auxes are fair game for Logic's own internal core management and are less likely to stay on a single core (with the possible exception of some input monitoring cases).
- run separate Kontakt or VI instances for each sound (rather than trying to host a single plugin instance as a complete workstation's worth of sounds in 1 instance).
- Go ahead and use the multiple auxes approach in other cases too. Have a heavy Amplitube or Guitar Rig preset loaded? Or some complex multi-effect built in Reaktor etc and it's causing core spiking? Just stick it by itself on its own aux and then do the rest of your plugins for that 'channel' on a previous or next aux in the audio chain. This is as per Apple's own recommendations for multi-core balancing and it led to my realizations for VI use as outlined above.
- FREEZE THINGS YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON (this just fixes so many issues and is *easy* if you're a mix engineer or composer that isn't multitracking everything live).
- In the past when doing input monitoring it might have made sense to even spawn a dedicated 'performance' instance (of large programs) and disable some of the unused layers by just running the analysis on the note range you're likely to be using (you can just use a ramp of midi notes and run a single pass by them, Kontakt will ditch other samples). This isn't as necessary in 64bit mode these days, and since Kontakt is much better behaved but Omnisphere and other edge cases I'm unfamiliar with that have the ability to 'analyze' and drop samples that are unused as Kontakt does might still be able to use this to ease burden.
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #36
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casworld's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I agree using the same thing and it is awesome.
Old 11th September 2012
  #37
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Ok thankz valis,I have to read that again though...

Sent from my PC36100
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