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Logic 5 for OSX released!
Old 1st September 2002
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Logic 5 for OSX released!

Logic 5.3 for OSX
Old 1st September 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm still scoping out the thing, but besides the info about Rewire, OMF, DAE, etc, not working in 5.3, the BIG news is that Emagic is dropping ASIO, VST, VSTi and only supporting the new "Audio Units" standard. This basically means that for the (at least) near future, it's Emagic's proprietary plugins and softsynths only in Logic under OSX. Wow! A serious crimp for many users. The Logic users I know would have a tough time with the combined total of features and plugins they would have to forfeit at this point.

This is an important release for Apple/Emagic. However, it's more analagous to the initial release of OSX 10.0 than anything else. Read the feature list and available plugins, then decide how useable Logic 5.3 on OSX will be for most pro users *at this time*. Not very. Totally neccessary as a development milestone, but likely a year away from replacing Logic on OS 9.x.

A bit like the wait for HD compatible TDM plugins, only about 2 orders of magnitude more severe and longer. It's a two step process to port plugins and VSTi. First, Carbonize. Then convert to the Audio Units standard. I wouldn't hold my breath for a bit yet. Think about all the plugs and sosftsynths to be ported, and which ones may never make it. This is a direct slap at Steinberg and I don't see their considerable stable of plugins ported anytime soon.

I'm sure Logic 5.3 on OSX is a cool thing, no doubt, lot's of eye candy and maybe more speed/less latency, but it's not really a fully pro DAW yet until many other aspects and factors are developed. Still, the whole thing has to start somewhere. Just don't get in a big hurry yet. It will be a while, like it was for OSX initial release to become Jaguar. 12-18 months from now, this could be a "must have", depending on what the competition, both Wintel and Mac, does.

All these comments are in the context of having been involved in alpha and beta stages of a bunch of apps over the last 15 years, all the way back to SMPTE Track and C-Lab Creator on the Atari. Including Logic for years.

This will take longer than anybody wants to become a viable reality without giving up currently "essential" elements that exist on OS9.x. Things like this always seem stuck in molasses to the end user.

Case in point. This release of Logic is almost exactly one year late, according to Emagic's own press releases last summer. I would bet money that it will be at least another year before enough 3rd party support exists for most current users to switch from Logic on OS9.x .


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd September 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I disagree

The most compelling arguement for Audio Units is

1. It's embedded in the OS. Latency, Efficiency and the ability for all CoreAudio apps to access it(systemwide) is a huge boon.

2. I've been hanging around the Core Audio list from Apple and my take is that Emagic is correct. Porting VST-AU shouldn't be too difficult. Sure you will have your lazy developers but competition always benefits the consumer.

Apple has a compelling architecture here. Since AU's are systemwide you know have the opportunity to sell your plugins to a much larger market. iTunes iMovie DVD SP, Final Cut Pro, ANY app.

Developers aren't in this business solely for the fun of it. Their looking to make money. Audio Units allow them to tap into much larger markets and sell their wares. If they want to take a year to do so then that's up to them. Better hope you have a loyal fanbase.
Old 2nd September 2002
  #4
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Jules's Avatar
Boy is this SO interesting!

It's awsome to have Brian here, as he is clearly a man with an eye on the next generation of PRO DAW to hop over to from Paris for a future 96k high track count operation.

To have hmurchison's contra opinion as well is an unexpected bonus.



Cheerleading session over!

Carry on!

heh
Old 2nd September 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
hmurchison,

I'm not sure we disagree. At no point was I disputing the potential efficacy of Audio Units. I have little knowledge about the architecture and therefore no real opinion yet. It seems like a fine idea.

FWIW, DirectX, though I'm sure less sophisticated, has been a part of the MS OS for years now and has spawned innumerable plugins due to it's ubiquity. There are obviously advantages in an OS imbedded plugin architecture.

I'm primarily talking about the mechanics of the changeover and how that might impact Emagic.

This is the first shot in a war. A war between Apple/Emagic and the rest of the Mac OS world. Now that it's in the fray, Apple will not allow any other body to set standards in the land of DAW. So will Steinberg now drop VST, VSTi, ASIO and ReWire support? I seriously doubt it. Will MOTU drop MAS? Maybe. Maybe not. Digi and RTAS?

How long will it take to get the 4,635 various VSTi softsynths over to Audio Units? How many glitches along the way? How long before all the numerous audio interfaces have properly functioning OSX drivers. How many glitches along the way? How long until you can use AutoTune, Waves, etc on Logic and OSX? What impact will it have on Emagic if MOTU, Steinberg and Digi all elect to support both Audio Units *and* there current standards? That's a big one.

Audio Units may be brilliant, technically. But it's not that simple. The changeover from PT MIx to PTHD for TDM plugins was immensely less problematic and far better organized than this looks to be. And that's still being ironed out as we speak for some developers considered important for TDM, now at least six months down the road. We're talking about both Carbonizing, *then* porting to Audio Units for a huge number of plugins. Every minute of which is time not spent on writing a brand new plugin. This is why Waves was *years* in addressing various CPU specific optimizations, and why many developers never have. Remember Altivec?.

To be honest, this seems heavy handed to me on the part of Apple/Emagic. A bit of an "EAT YOUR PEAS, YOU KNUCKLEHEADS, OR NO DESSERT!" approach. No surprise there, given recent events.

What they are in effect saying is, "There is only one permissible technical standard for a DAW on OSX. And it's wholly within the OS." I, for one, do not expect everyone else who makes a DAW for OSX to agree, for a number of reasons, including market position and pure politics.

So even if this ultimately is a great technical idea, it is a current bed of thorns as far as commerce goes. I foresee a big spat, continued support of well established proprietary standards by other developers, a huge mess for 3rd party plugin, softsynth and audio hardware developers to negotiate, and the probable exit of the Mac market by some developers as a result.

I could be wrong, but let me give a shred of credibility to myself, if I may. I predicted to Gerhard back in '97 that Emagic would eventually be forced into a corner if they failed to establish and support open standards, rather than remain so proprietary. Not to be. So Steinberg (or MS for DX) authored and controlled every meaningful standard that Emagic ended up supporting. As a result, this sale sounds a bit like a decision made while forced into a corner, at least to me.

I then saw the writing on the wall and exited Logic for the PC 2 years ago, after investing large amounts of time in both the alpha and beta stages of the development of Logic 4. I knew that ultimately, this is a Mac company, lip service to PC users or not.

So I am harmed or benefitted in no way by any of these events. I'm merely commenting from the sideline, having been on the inside loop at one time. I suppose it's possible that makes me at least somewhat objective, having no vested interest at this point.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd September 2002
  #6
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
hmmm

I suppose Fairlight (with, I have to say, THE MOST BIZARRE non interest in new customers!) might be inching forward behind the scenes with music friendly tweaks to their Dream series....

I have an eye open for a DAW upgrade that does high sample rates / large track counts and hooks up with a pro control surface. I imagine you would be interested in such a thing too Brian.

1) Where do you see a great high sample alternative DAW to your Paris rig coming from Brian?

2) Fairlight?

3) PTHD? Perhaps sometime down the line?

4) Time-scale?

Obviously I have to make strategic upgrade spending discussions myself but your overview on a potential wait time is most gratefully appreciated.

Old 2nd September 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
BrianT

I guess I should have prefaced my comments by noting that I'm a optimist.

To be honest your post is what I think will happen. I just had to add my Anthony Robbins Class Optimism to the thread.



Quote:
To be honest, this seems heavy handed to me on the part of Apple/Emagic. A bit of an "EAT YOUR PEAS, YOU KNUCKLEHEADS, OR NO DESSERT!" approach. No surprise there, given recent events.
How so very true! I read it and while I was suprised...I wasn't shocked. Apple has some serious campaigning to do. NI, Waves, Audioease, Bomb Factory and others will need to be agressively targeted.

Quote:
So even if this ultimately is a great technical idea, it is a current bed of thorns as far as commerce goes. I foresee a big spat, continued support of well established proprietary standards by other developers, a huge mess for 3rd party plugin, softsynth and audio hardware developers to negotiate, and the probable exit of the Mac market by some developers as a result.

This is sadly true. I will be watching to see how active Apple is in supporting Developers. Native Instruments seems reticent to support OS X already. Perhaps for other reasons but this isn't going to be the easiest sell.


Since Apple's marketshare is so small. IMO they will need to increase the market for plugin developers any way they can. I suggest they quickly move ANY app they create to CoreAudio. I would create and dedicate www.apple.com/audiounit to promoting the development and marketing of Plugins. I would beseech developers to create plugins for all suitable Apple even license some of the popular plugins for inclusion with the apps themselves. I would provide support for developer tools and Technical Support. AudioUnits can work but they won't fly unless Apple puts serious weight behind them.
Old 2nd September 2002
  #8
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Kamurah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey guys.....

Thought I would interrupt the debate over AU's for a minute and give a report.

I have been putting Logic OSX through its paces all afternoon and I am truly impressed.

Right now I am running it off of a little Edirol UA-30 USB interface that I use to listen to CD's on. It happens to have OSX drivers (and my Creamware cards do not!).

Anyway, the system works really well. Latency using the Core Audio driver is unnoticable to me. I have a Roland PC-300 USB keyboard that I use to control softsynths, and have been able to play realtime on the EXS and other synths in Logic....no hiccups....and everything sounds great and functions smoothly.

There *IS* a performance boost from 9.2.

I am running on a G4 500mhz with 768mb RAM. I would estimate a 15-20% reduction in CPU overhead from Logic 5.2 on 9.2.2 using the same plugs / synths.

I know the metrics of performance are difficult to nail down, but the system feels and responds great and I haven't had any crashes so far (I mean it's only been a couple of hours...but hey, that's something anyway)

I have already written an email to Native Instruments (I bought Battery last week) asking for support of Core Audio Units and OSX. I encourage everyone to do the same with their favorite developer.


Now things are starting to get interesting

Cheers
Old 2nd September 2002
  #9
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🎧 15 years
OK, here is another update....

Got up this morning and checked my email....there was a response from NI waiting (talk about fast)

They stated that they will indeed be supporting Core Audio Units with their plugins, but don't have a release date as of yet.

WOW.

Well, one developer down......infinity to go

Think I'll go write Waves....hehe
Old 2nd September 2002
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Kamurah....I think motu will support audio units for sure... the big questions are Steinberg and Digi...I think steinberg may support it but DIGi I have my dougts...it would just be too good to be true...we could run Powercore and UAD and lots of former vsts in Protools then...and if they did correctly they would replace HTDM/RTAS with audio units...

anyway my point is...

BUG THE **** OUT OF DIGI!!!!

and you can quote me on that....

Digidesign
Old 2nd September 2002
  #11
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Kamurah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
etherize,

I agree 100% with your assessment. However, I don't think Digi will ever support AU's as a format. It would be incredibly cool if they DID...but they have always been stubborn about playing nice with other formats.....and seem to think they have a "manifest destiny" to own the DAW world. Granted they are the standard of the day...but standards change (look at ADAT).

Regardless...I bet future implementation of the ESB from Emagic will allow AU's to work inside Pro Tools....just as you can with VST's now....so not much of a loss there......

It's too bad Digi is such a F**kin hardass when it comes to this sort of thing....I would never have looked outside of Pro Tools if I had been able to use all my toys with that program. (even though the more I use Logic the more I likey)


Cheers
Old 2nd September 2002
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Unhappy

Very interesting.... I'm a fiarly straightforward engineer/programmer and, like pretty much all the other guys like me I know, I rely very heavilly on my current armoury of VST and VSTi plugins. It is simply not possible for me to go to 5.3/osX without a very significant part of that armoury available to me.

Brian, would it be possible for someone to write a shell type plugin in Audio Units that would allow the use of VST and/or VSTi plugins?

RichJ
Old 2nd September 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have to believe it's technically possible to make a VST adapter for Audio Units, but likely only to an already Carbonized plugin.

There are already at least 3 VST/DX Adapters competing on the Wintel side of things. CakeWalk and Sonic Foundry, both large players, had refused to support VST, VSTi or ASIO. So a few innovative people stepped in. The adapters work well, and don't seem to be a large loss in efficiency.

But interestingly enough, given this Emagic announcement, Sonic Foundry after years of DX only, just added support for both ASIO and VSTi in Acid Pro 4. IMO, VST presents too many *current* options to ignore.

But here is why I see this whole thing as typical Apple (or MS for that matter), B.S.

Let's suppose it is possible to write an adapter/wrapper for VST to Audio Units. Fine. Then why not built it *into* the friggin' app to make your *customers* lives far more pleasant, encourage faster transition to the new OS, and provide more, not less options for the end user to enjoy? What is the downside, except forfeiting the "right" to dictate?

Why not support both? Egos and politics. The "Not invented here." syndrome. I've seen it too many times to be amused at this point. The end user has to jump through hoops or simply do without instead of being put first as far as consideration. That's wrong.

I know on the PC side, an adapter to clear up this mess would be out in short order. I assume there is similar innovation on the Apple side of things. It's just a shame the customer, who funds the company, takes it in the shorts, at least in the short term, because of corporate politics.

Would it KILL these guys to support both Audio Units and VST for a while? Man, it sure seems like it would be in everybodies best interest, including theirs. Unless, maybe, it turns out that VST on OSX is as good as or better than Audio Units and they don't want to be a party to that. Not an impossible scenario, whatever impassioned users may want to believe.

Again, I'll say this. If Steinberg and MOTU support both their current plugin standards as well as Audio Units in their OSX releases, which is likely IMO, Emagic is going to have a tough road selling their new OSX DAW with only about 10-15% of the available third party plugins and softsynths for the first year.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd September 2002
  #14
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Hmmm wrappers.....

How many corners must the audio bend round as we mash it to pieces in a DAW's 3rd party 'not invented here' software...?

Surely it's not good for the sound?

Perhaps like the record industry being too greedy to agree on an anti piracy format for music, DAW folks will NEVER agree anything sencible as a handy standard

Hmmmm now where is that Fairlight catalog again? Perhaps if I absail down from the roof and crash through a window into their board room dressed in a top hat, tails and put on a tap dance routene they might dane to speak to me about a Dream Console demo this side of Xmas!

96k
48 tracks minimum
A controller
Pure signal path

Give it to me baby!

Old 2nd September 2002
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Jules what do you have against upgrading to HD? you would get all of the above? And you already have invested in a controller the is one of the best available...not to mention the rumors of The Ulimate controller coming from Digi in 2003...

Briant I think you are being waaaaayyy to negative about this...Emagic has only released Logic for Os X a few hours ago!...They are the first to release a major audio program like this for OS X...Supposedly it works pretty well and sounds less buggy than just going from your normal .2 or.3 releases from the same os....I can't try it yet since I TDM is not ported and I don't have a USB midi interface...But I CANNNOT wait...THIS IF ****ING AWESome news!! ...

Brian I have noticed you posting everywhere on this subject....I think all your worries are unfounded personally but we will all see in time anyway...

My personal opinions is that most (pretty much all) developers don't have anything on OS X yet...so when they do port I believe alot of them will port to audio units....if they don't it will only take them another couple of hours to support it and they will make that effort because it will enable to sell to Logic, probably motu...and probably EVERY FREAKIN NON AUDIO SPECIALLIZED APP ON OS X!! like finalcut pro, premier, etc.... Hell maybe I will be using my SONY Oxford EQ, Max Bass, L2, and George Massenberg compressor on itunes...and stream it into my living room and one ****in unbelievable radio system...or home theater system...

Relax....AES is coming soon and more info will be out by then...I would say sit tight till then...

I think if Motu comes along with audio units support (which I think they will) then Steinberg would be the odd one out if they do not support it but it wouldn't matter that much cause plugs can extremly easily be created for both audio units and vst so the point is moot....

DIGI on the other hand has some interesting decisions...there has not been much new news on the TDM front.....how many new TDM plug-ins have we seen this year? How many will we see 2 years from now when Native is 2.5 times more powerful but TDM is still the same power? Will developers support Four different standards (TDM,HTDM,RTAS, Audiosuite) just to please Digi? When they can support audio units and have it work with any program on the computer?

What I would like to see from Digi is to Kill all there formats and support audio units...would be nice to if TDM was eventually replaced by something more similar to the UAD-1 and Powercore....since latency isn't going to be as much of a factor any more and the UAD-1 will soon have multicard support and will also allow the use of working with other programs with out the need to support the DAE and also allows the use of the power of the whole card instead of one ancient motorola DSP...(Hey I have HD3 so I am not making fun of anyone's purchases this just the reality)

Another thing would be cool if Digi supported audio units and Live was available as an audio unit within Protools and you could drag and drop soundfiles between them....also if the Much Rumored Native Instruments Groove Sequencer came available as an Audio Unit so you could use it inside Protools and would thus give protools alot of the missing Midi features other programs have....

One thing I do not understand is it does not seem that Apple as of yet has a solution for a replacement for Rewire/Direct connect...Logic 5.3 doesn't support either so I wonder what this means...I believe Live and Reason on OS X do so it should be possible...maybe someone in the know can chime in on what's going on with this...

Anyway today is a great day! now on to installing my just recieved Logic crossgrade...

Old 2nd September 2002
  #16
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🎧 15 years
I think you're reading me wrong. I think MOTU and Steinberg should support Audio Units. Along with the current standards, in order to create a reasonable transition. I'm for more options, not less. My DAW runs 3 plugin formats. Paris internal EDS, VST and DX. I love that, because I have more choices and can use anything out for the PC right now, today. That's good. Very good.

My beef is that Emapple is now saying "This brand new standard that has no current support is IT . Deal with it.". Since nobody has used plugins or VSTi with this yet, is it awesome, or still a work in progress? Are all external controllers mapped correctly to AU softsynths? Is Midi Beat Clock nailed? How many multi-outs per instrument are supported right now and on how many hardware choices? Do you know, or are we just assuming Emapple has everything perfected, in all ways better than VST, VSTi and MAS?

That leaves users in the lurch, with no AU support from devlopers yet, and will delay, rather than advance the switch to OSX for Logic users, IMO. They will play with Logic on OSX and talk about the amazing potential and improvements, but for the next year, most will still use Logic on OS9 because of the VST, VSTi and hardware support they cannot do without in a real session.

At least that's the way I see it. As far as posting everywhere, here and MusicPlayer is everywhere? ;-)

Oh, yeah. One RAP post, too.

Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd September 2002
  #17
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alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i think motu should support audio units [as well as ALL MAC based apps], just the sheer amount of "wrappers" takes a toll on my machine. Waves uses a shell, PSP uses their own shell, then VSTwrapper... and they all seem to conflict with each other.

one standardized set to write on would be a dream come true if it was stable.

im all for it/.
Old 2nd September 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Me too, Alpha. It's just not reality yet. And won't be for a while, which is what confuses the heck out of me about Emagic's decision.

I'd love to see the Mac be "all that" and a no brainer choice. This Audio Units could be a part of that, along with a G5, Power4 or AMD Hammer. But these guys are very premature in this move, IMO.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd September 2002
  #19
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alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
well someone has got to do it first so plugin guys can get their **** steady on it. better now than never i guess.

osx wont be ready for full on production for another 2 years anyway, maybe 1.5, but i doubt that soon. i dont think things are going to be realistically stable until at least the third rev out of the 1.0 release anyway... let be honest. all the aps are complete rewrites so everyone goes back to v1.0 [although wasnt neundo originally written for SGI/Unix machines? seems they should already have it "done"]
Old 3rd September 2002
  #20
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Etherize - re PTHD

Too much delay on Digi's behalf on the following:

Plugins 'on the fly'
Scrub Trim on the ProControl - promised a LONG time ago
Auto delay compensation
TDMII Mixer quality (it's still shouded in mystery math) it's impossible to get a handle on new improvements or potential future ones.

All that said I will probably upgrade HD in the end...

While OSX Logic drops the pro ball will Digidesign reign victorious (AGAIN) for having a WORKING system in the 'developmentaly unstable' period?

BT why not PTHD? Had a look at Fairlight Dream? (I suppose it hasn't got enough tracks for ya!

grudge
Old 3rd September 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This is Par for the course for Apple

Apple has no faith in Developers.Even with the original iMac they realized that if they put USB(then very new with limited HW support) on the iMacs AND Serial port they new Developers wouldn't make USB hardware. The Developers would say "why should I create USB HW when I can use the serial ports"

This is a good way to kill a new Technology. Apple has since basically eliminated the old tech if they plan on pushing new tech. Honestly if Logic supported VST and Audio Units developers would simply write to what they know...VST. Sure...Apple could tell them that Logic 6 would be AU only but then they've allowed the Developers to procrastinate until the last minute.

I fully expect that many Logic users will still have to wait until their VST's have been updated. I've emailed like 8 plugin Devs today and they seem receptive to Audio Units. Perhaps they realize that they may have an expanded market to sell to if Apple promotes Audio Units correctly.

This really helps Motu and Cubase though because they can offer the "complete" solution and tap customers that need VST support.

This is going to be exciting for some...to see how Apple can navigate the potential pitfalls of evoking such change. Lucky for me I'll be starting from scratch soon so I don't have any plugins to worry about. I'm the lucky one.
Old 3rd September 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
[although wasnt neundo originally written for SGI/Unix machines? seems they should already have it "done"]
I understand from Steinberg folks that Nuendo already is Carbonized and waiting on drivers and plugins to be real.

BT
Old 3rd September 2002
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

BT why not PTHD? Had a look at Fairlight Dream? (I suppose it hasn't got enough tracks for ya!

grudge

One reason I've auditioned a Dengerous 2 Buss as well as other summing issue workarounds for PT is that I try and stay open about where the future lies. As soon as I hear "it", I'm there. Not yet, though. For my, uses I can still get a good bit more punch and juice out of the backside of Paris than any of the current PT mixing solutions I've heard. That's for me and my work, I'm not fragging any happy PT users. More power to you.

I'm really in no big hurry. What I'm working with now gives me 128 tracks, more DSP than even I can use and excellent sonic results, IMHO. I'm a person who is still sceptical about higher sample rates making a difference to my life in the real world of making records for the human beings that still purchase them.

I did have a thought, Jules. A pretty freaky thought that might be a horrible idea, fraught with peril. What if someone took a medium-large sized project, between 40-60 tracks, and did a mix on PTHD that they considered very hi-fi. No post mix mastering allowed, but anything you want on the 2 bus while mixing. That way, realtime comparisons remain apples to apples.

Then forward the multitracks and the mix to let's say 3 or 4 people who use either an analog console or other DAW. Goal 1 is to match the mix as closely as possible, by ear. Big points for an exact match. Goal 2 is to then drop the bomb with no holds barred to top everything and everybody.

I would be talking apparent level, punch, width and general "in-your-faceness" for a purely commercial result. The type of thing mixers get paid big money to do.

Is that an awful idea? Could be ugly, I suppose. But it might be fascinating, assuming everybody treated it like a sporting event and didn't get all nasty. Sure, we're comparing people as much as gear. But since when are people and their interaction with and choice of gear not a factor?

I think I would be in for such a thing, mostly in order to hear a real life show and tell on what the heck all the endless verbage on this subject actually means.

Or not. Like I said, it could get ugly. Especially if I got my butt kicked dfegad


Regards,
Brian T
Old 3rd September 2002
  #24
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Lets explore that idea further via personal messages.


Old 3rd September 2002
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Jules I agree with your points about the current state of protools...but I i also believe that Digi has not just been sitting on there ass for the last few years...So hopefully alot of these issues will be taken care of in Protools 6 which is right around the corner at this point...I am also hoping there will be no TDM 3 and no more motorola 68k chips for TDM....hopefully the next incarnation will more similar to the UAD way of doing things and just plug-in to the native format...or/and Digi will release a hardware box that plugs in by way of firewire/mlan...It would also be interesting if Digi choose to use the same chips as apple so then developers would have a much easier time supporting them (this is not too far stretched, the soundtools hardware was originally based on 68040 chips I believe) maybe the next digichips could be Cell Based/Power4/Moto G5/Hammer...

obviously you guys are going to transition to OS X whenever you decide is right for you..for me though? I am making the plunge as soon as Digi releases OS X support, emagic supports HD in X, and Waves is released as well...My plan is to then get a laptop and run all my os 9 stuff on that in sync...I would be doing this anyway to run altiverb and also to once in a while run Koblo synths which are great for some electronic stuff and are unfortunately never going to be ported to Os X...

As far as the audio units stuff...if Steinberg/Digi do not support it they will be the odd ones out...While Emagic plugs and motu plugs will be available to every program on your computer...vst will be mostly stuck to cubase and a few other programs and rtas/htdm will be stuck to Protools mostly...One the the big rumors from Emagic and Motu (maybe digi too but not sure) shying away from vst was because then Steinberg would be in control of the format and always have a headstart in implementing features and possibly have control over stability issues...so motu created MAS....But since the new standard is controlled by the OS Maker this point is moot now...(ok let's forget the fact that Apple owns Emagic....audio units is still controlled by Apple) Instead of focussing our energy on worrying...when you speak to developers...just bug them about Audio units support...

Oh one final point....Piracy....now I do not know what Apple's plan for this is...but one of the reasons we do not get the top notch lexi/eventide/tc etc plug-ins is because developers are worried about piracy...Now if Apple chose to...they could build in some key-like hardware in the Mac itself and make it much harder to pirate stuff...Apple could do this could they make the OS/Hardware/Audio Units....and don't think this is too far out of the realm of possibility Microsoft is already trying to do this...but because they need support from hardware makers to build in the funtionality and make it a standard it is much harder for them...while Apple just has to make an internal decision if they decide to go this root...If they do implement this...in the future you might sight plug-ins available for the mac in native form that developers will refuse to right on pc because of piracy issues...

Lots of goodness to look forward too...ok I need to take some RDF downers so I can get some sleep....



Old 3rd September 2002
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Excellent point about piracy control. If implemented well, that alone could make the Mac the winner platform, since it would be a haven for developers tired of cracks.

Brian T
Old 3rd September 2002
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I agree also

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
Excellent point about piracy control. If implemented well, that alone could make the Mac the winner platform, since it would be a haven for developers tired of cracks.

Brian T
Actually that makes so much sense I doubt Apple will even do it which is rare pessimism coming from me. Developers would LOVE to have the OS handle their anti piracy methods.
Old 3rd September 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
OK. I just scanned the thread. Can I summarize what I seem to have used 3000 words to communicate poorly?

Before you jump to a new standard exclusively , however fabulous that standard may be, remember to have products that can actually use that standard first .

That's all I really mean to say.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 14th July 2012
  #29
Facepalm πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
Awesome!
Old 14th July 2012
  #30
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facepalm ➑️
Awesome!
Not as awesome as your 10yr bump!
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