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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5281
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Hi tafkat. I'm a little confused according to a post you made towards the start of the thread. The PreSonus quantum has lower round trip latency figures at all hw buffer settings than the rme pcie cards. Yet you have ranked the rme pcie card as the fastest.
How did you rank fastest to slowest interfaces?
Am I missing something?
There is not only RTL as the sole factor in the ranking. Performance/number of plugs/VI’s at « x » latency also enters in the equation.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
There is not only RTL as the sole factor in the ranking. Performance/number of plugs/VI’s at « x » latency also enters in the equation.
Aren't those factors handled by the CPU and have nothing to do with the RTL of the audio interface?
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5283
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Aren't those factors handled by the CPU and have nothing to do with the RTL of the audio interface?
Driver efficiency is also part of this.

So, even if the Quantum has lower RTL, the driver isn’t as efficient at the RME ones.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Driver efficiency is also part of this.

So, even if the Quantum has lower RTL, the driver isn’t as efficient at the RME ones.
Hmm are you sure it works like that? My understanding is that drivers are only one of the determining factors of input output latency. Not how fast your cpu is able to process your plugins.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5285
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Hmm are you sure it works like that? My understanding is that drivers are only one of the determining factors of input output latency. Not how fast your cpu is able to process your plugins.
If you look here: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base , the RME ranked first can handle more RXC’s and NCV’s than the Quantum @32 buffer. Yes, the RTL is like .5 ms faster but the DAW will choke trying to use the same number of RXC’s and NCV’s than the RME.

You would need something like 48 buffer for the Quantum driver to approach the same efficiency as the RME driver.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Driver efficiency is also part of this.

So, even if the Quantum has lower RTL, the driver isn’t as efficient at the RME ones.
What is RXC's and NCV's?
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5287
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
What is RXC's and NCV's?
RXC Multiband compressor
NCV, Kontakt instruments without Convolution reverb and obviously, CV stands for NI Kontakt instances with Convolution reverb.

So, at 32 on the reference computer, the Quantum can’t handle any Kontakt instances without pops and crackles…
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5288
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🎧 5 years
To add precision, the reference computers are:

Desktop System Detail:
Intel i7 920 Quadcore/ 2.66 GHZ/
Intel X58 / 6 GB DDR3-PC12800.

Notebook System Detail:
Intel i7 620 Dualcore / 2.66 GHZ/
Intel HM55 / 4 GB DDR3-PC10600.

It doesn’t mean that a more powerful computer won’t be able to sustain a Kontakt patch without crackles but that on the same machine, the RME will handle a lot more Kontakt patches or Multiband compressors even if RTL is a tad lower.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
RXC Multiband compressor
NCV, Kontakt instruments without Convolution reverb and obviously, CV stands for NI Kontakt instances with Convolution reverb.

So, at 32 on the reference computer, the Quantum can’t handle any Kontakt instances without pops and crackles…
Oh I see what you are saying. I thought all types of plugins were handled by the CPU though and had nothing to do with the audio interface or drivers.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5290
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Oh I see what you are saying. I thought all types of plugins were handled by the CPU though and had nothing to do with the audio interface or drivers.
Boy, you reply faster than I’m able to type…

For clarity (was an edit in my precedent post):

It doesn’t mean that a more powerful computer won’t be able to sustain a Kontakt patch without crackles but that on the same machine, the RME will handle a lot more Kontakt patches or Multiband compressors even if RTL is a tad lower with the Quantum.

The Quantum serie of interface is king in the RTL latencies but what does it mean if in reality, you’ll get crackles or pops with fewer plugs or VI’s?

BTW, I own a Quantum 2626 (I would guess that the numbers « would » be similar to the plain old Quantum) but it wasn’t tested on the reference systems.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Boy, you reply faster than I’m able to type…

For clarity (was an edit in my precedent post):

It doesn’t mean that a more powerful computer won’t be able to sustain a Kontakt patch without crackles but that on the same machine, the RME will handle a lot more Kontakt patches or Multiband compressors even if RTL is a tad lower with the Quantum.

The Quantum serie of interface is king in the RTL latencies but what does it mean if in reality, you’ll get crackles or pops with fewer plugs or VI’s?

BTW, I own a Quantum 2626 (I would guess that the numbers « would » be similar to the plain old Quantum) but it wasn’t tested on the reference systems.
Ahah sorry!

I see what you're saying now. I had no idea that drivers had this impact when running certain types of plugins. I thought they were dependant on the CPU entirely.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5292
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🎧 5 years
RTL’s in the 2-4 ms range for 32 and 64 buffers are quite impressive BTW, regardless of the manufacturer. For me, anyway…
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Boy, you reply faster than I’m able to type…

For clarity (was an edit in my precedent post):

It doesn’t mean that a more powerful computer won’t be able to sustain a Kontakt patch without crackles but that on the same machine, the RME will handle a lot more Kontakt patches or Multiband compressors even if RTL is a tad lower with the Quantum.

The Quantum serie of interface is king in the RTL latencies but what does it mean if in reality, you’ll get crackles or pops with fewer plugs or VI’s?

BTW, I own a Quantum 2626 (I would guess that the numbers « would » be similar to the plain old Quantum) but it wasn’t tested on the reference systems.
Oh so you own a quantum. If you have a really powerful PC would this reduce the cracks pops when running plugins?
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5294
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Ahah sorry!

I see what you're saying now. I had no idea that drivers had this impact when running certain types of plugins. I thought they were dependant on the CPU entirely.
Yes, you are in fact in a certain way right that the more powerful the machine, the more plugs/VI’s you’ll supposedly get at low RTL’s but the RME would still win.

Don’t know about the new Apple Silicon chips however but I didn’t see anything meaningful published regarding driver efficiency/RTL for this new CPU platform.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5295
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Oh so you own a quantum. If you have a really powerful PC would this reduce the cracks pops when running plugins?
Sure (probably!) in theory but I repeat again, the RME would probably still be first…
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5296
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🎧 5 years
In the end, it’s a choice of performance/price point ratio: I am not doing audio at at a pro level so the Quantum 2626 is impressive as it reminds me of the performance of my old trusty PCI interfaces, an Echo Mia and a M-Audio AP2496. I’m just an hobbyist doing music as a sideline to my main job, music teacher at elementary.

As a sidenote, I still have those old interfaces plus:

- Edirol FA-66 (ok but not stellar RTL-wise);
- Roland Quad and Octa Capture (just a bit in the 2nd tier of the chart, or at the top of the 3rd tier depending on the way you see it);
- Focusrite 2i2 and 18i20 2nd Gen, 2nd tier.

Not the least, I’m a Mac user (Hackintoshes and two « real Macs) and I remember that this OS is a tad less efficient, at least as it was measured by @ TAFKAT in the 10.6 (Snow Leopard) days.

As I also said, I absolutely know nothing about the performance of audio interfaces with the new Apple Silicon architecture… Yes, these new computers (M1 and M2) are supposedly the best thing after sliced bread but I would like to see a real comparison and real data regarding CPU power/RTL/driver efficiency.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Sure (probably!) in theory but I repeat again, the RME would probably still be first…
I would have thought the quantum would have won in RTL if your PC is powerful enough to mitigate the cracks and pops. As you said the quantum series is the king in terms of RTL.
I'm either thinking of getting a rme raydat or quantum 2632 but I want the lowest RTL possible.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
In the end, it’s a choice of performance/price point ratio: I am not doing audio at at a pro level so the Quantum 2626 is impressive as it reminds me of the performance of my old trusty PCI interfaces, an Echo Mia and a M-Audio AP2496. I’m just an hobbyist doing music as a sideline to my main job, music teacher at elementary.

As a sidenote, I still have those old interfaces plus:

- Edirol FA-66 (ok but not stellar RTL-wise);
- Roland Quad and Octa Capture (just a bit in the 2nd tier of the chart, or at the top of the 3rd tier depending on the way you see it);
- Focusrite 2i2 and 18i20 2nd Gen, 2nd tier.

Not the least, I’m a Mac user (Hackintoshes and two « real Macs) and I remember that this OS is a tad less efficient, at least as it was measured by @ TAFKAT in the 10.6 (Snow Leopard) days.

As I also said, I absolutely know nothing about the performance of audio interfaces with the new Apple Silicon architecture… Yes, these new computers (M1 and M2) are supposedly the best thing after sliced bread but I would like to see a real comparison and real data regarding CPU power/RTL/driver efficiency.
Oh yeah nice. I had my eye on the quantum 2626. I thought it might be faster seeing it has TB3 but doesn't appear that way because the drivers seem to be a bottleneck. I've got an old fireface 800 and was thinking of connecting to either a raydat or quantum via adat but want the lowest latency possible.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5299
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
I would have thought the quantum would have won in RTL if your PC is powerful enough to mitigate the cracks and pops. As you said the quantum series is the king in terms of RTL.
I'm either thinking of getting a rme raydat or quantum 2632 but I want the lowest RTL possible.
Raydat is PCIe, isn’t it?

Thunderbolt could be hit and miss, in particular with the new TB4 equipped motherboards (correct me someone if I’m wrong).

I guess you envisage a PC tower if the Raydat is in your choices? Or a new MacPro 2022?
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5300
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Oh yeah nice. I had my eye on the quantum 2626. I thought it might be faster seeing it has TB3 but doesn't appear that way because the drivers seem to be a bottleneck. I've got an old fireface 800 and was thinking of connecting to either a raydat or quantum via adat but want the lowest latency possible.
Bottleneck is not the word I would use: it’s on par with real PCIe but it’s still damn fast RTL-wise… Depending on the manufacturer.

Don’t forget that there is no internal DSP in the Quantum line so, if you want to monitor your inputs, you can only do it in a DAW. No direct monitoring facility. At the other end of the spectrum, RME is renowned for its internal routing/monitoring capability.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Raydat is PCIe, isn’t it?

Thunderbolt could be hit and miss, in particular with the new TB4 equipped motherboards (correct me someone if I’m wrong).

I guess you envisage a PC tower if the Raydat is in your choices? Or a new MacPro 2022?
Yeah raydat is pcie.

Yeah the PC I build would be Thunderbolt 4 but it's backwards compatible.

Yeah the main parts were going to be an alderlake 12900k, pcie 4 SSD 2tb, 64gb ddr5, Thunderbolt 4 pcie card and possibly a raydat card if it's faster in terms of RTL vs the quantum. But I was thinking maybe clicks and pops won't be a problem running the quantum with those computer specs.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Bottleneck is not the word I would use: it’s on par with real PCIe but it’s still damn fast RTL-wise… Depending on the manufacturer.

Don’t forget that there is no internal DSP in the Quantum line so, if you want to monitor your inputs, you can only do it in a DAW. No direct monitoring facility. At the other end of the spectrum, RME is renowned for its internal routing/monitoring capability.
Yeah that's true. I really want to be able to monitor while hearing the plugin effects though. That was one of my reasons for wanting to upgrade.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5303
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B182 ➡️
Hi tafkat. I'm a little confused according to a post you made towards the start of the thread. The PreSonus quantum has lower round trip latency figures at all hw buffer settings than the rme pcie cards. Yet you have ranked the rme pcie card as the fastest.
How did you rank fastest to slowest interfaces?
Am I missing something?
I see brousseau6933 has covered it for you, in a nutshell , and pause for effect as I have said it countless times through this thread, LOL,

I/O and RTL is only half the equation, the other half which is equally if not more important, is the efficiency at the respective latencies.

Have a read in on the article I wrote in 2012, when I first developed the rating system.

Audio Interface Low Latency Performance - Part II

Re Quantums , great driver, I would be snagging one ASAP if you see any available, they are EOL due to the converter /chip shortage.

Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5304
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➡️
I see brousseau6933 has covered it for you, in a nutshell , and pause for effect as I have said it countless times through this thread, LOL,

I/O and RTL is only half the equation, the other half which is equally if not more important, is the efficiency at the respective latencies.

Have a read in on the article I wrote in 2012, when I first developed the rating system.

Audio Interface Low Latency Performance - Part II

Re Quantums , great driver, I would be snagging one ASAP if you see any available, they are EOL due to the converter /chip shortage.

+1 on the Quantum (OG 2432). Amazing box and I came from a FF800 as well.

The one really great thing about that box - outside of the blazing speed - are the preamps. I found the FF800 pres to be gawd awful and only for non-critical emergencies. The Quantum pres (Xmax) are some of the nicest clean pres I've used.

I too, make my money outside of music but have been a semi-pro for 20 years.

Tracking 8-12 tracks simultaneously with effects gets me no pops or clicks ever. That's my benchmark. I usually do 88.2 @ 64 Buffers...
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5305
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🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by redddog ➡️
+1 on the Quantum (OG 2432). Amazing box and I came from a FF800 as well.
I wish I had some idea what OG 2432 is/means/refers to.
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5306
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brousseau6933 ➡️
Raydat is PCIe, isn’t it?

Thunderbolt could be hit and miss, in particular with the new TB4 equipped motherboards (correct me someone if I’m wrong).

I guess you envisage a PC tower if the Raydat is in your choices? Or a new MacPro 2022?
I have a Raydat, less the 4 ms latency at a 64 sample buffer.

On a 5950x computer I've never had to raise this buffer size. Ever. Honestly most of my stuff would run at 32 samples. Keep in mind I don't use a tons of greedy VSTIs and do freeze things before mixing.
Old 15th June 2022
  #5307
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18 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I'm curious, as a technical question of the study. @ TAFKAT how do you "ratio" RTL times VS plugin efficiency for your "rankings?" Is one given more importance than the other or are they some way "equal"?
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5308
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg ➡️
I wish I had some idea what OG 2432 is/means/refers to.
Sorry...I meant 2632....

https://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSQUA...SABEgKpFfD_BwE
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5309
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg ➡️
I wish I had some idea what OG 2432 is/means/refers to.
Original 24 ins 32 outs version maybe??

**Oops, already clarified, I should had read…
Old 15th June 2022 | Show parent
  #5310
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg ➡️
I wish I had some idea what OG 2432 is/means/refers to.
The original Quantum 26x 32 TB2 unit

I think he meant 2632

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