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New Melodyne Still Degrade Audio?
Old 13th November 2009
  #1
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🎧 10 years
New Melodyne Still Degrade Audio?

Does any know if the newer versions of Melodyne still degrade audio to the mp3-ish sound some users complain about? Is AT still the choice for the most transparent correction?
Old 13th November 2009
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
voidtunes's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I much prefer the sound of melodyne to Ant.
Sure it does take a little high end away but I wouldn't say MP3ish> The trick with any tuning is not to slam it on like huew hefner on one of his gold diggers. However I find you can get away with quite a bit of melodyne before you really hear it...You can simply add th high end back in after.

My 2cents anyway.
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 10 years
It is INSANE how much Melodyne you can get away with sometimes... When tuning it, it can sound like a lot, but when you drop it into the mix, it actually gets hidden quite well.
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think when melodyne is used well, and not pushing it into extreme correction, it is just absolutely fine.
These corrections always degrade the sound somehow. There is no substitute to a really good singer. I would say if you only correct few very minor problems, melodyne can be inaudible. The more you do, the more you hear! It is that simple imho.
Always go for a better take if you can.
Tamas Dragon
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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Levon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
IMHO, Melodyne is much better than AT, sure it gets phasey if you push it too much, but used in a normal way, it's fantastic.

Haven't yet tried the new DNA, the old Melodyne does everything I need to do
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 15 years
to me AT sounds a million times better than melodyne. which is a shame - melodyne is so much nicer to work with.
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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SHIRK's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I tried the new DNA melodyne (stand-alone beta app) on my PT7.4 HD3 rig. Crashed the system the first time. Worked like a charm the second. I only wanted to fix a couple problem notes in a vocal pass that was recorded with the band playing in the room. DNA made it possible to actually fix only the vocal without making all the bleed sounds (gtrs, bass, drums) get all wiggly and out of tune. Keep in mind I'm not pushing it hard, just making sure the singer gets to the note they fell a little shy of. And I'm certainly not messing with the modulation much and making things flat-line laser beam perfect.


Great tool. A usable safety net. I like it much better than AT.
Old 13th November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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The MPCist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like Melodyne the best but sonically it's inferior to Auto-Tune. I still like using M....
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #9
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preachers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon ➡️
I think when melodyne is used well, and not pushing it into extreme correction, it is just absolutely fine.
These corrections always degrade the sound somehow. There is no substitute to a really good singer. I would say if you only correct few very minor problems, melodyne can be inaudible. The more you do, the more you hear! It is that simple imho.
Always go for a better take if you can.
Tamas Dragon
that's not true, in my case, i use melodyne studio 3 standalone.
first i import a vocal track, then export it without ANY TOUCH, import it back again, play the two tracks together, you could hear phase cancellation.
do the same thing in reaper, no phase problem at all, even when i export in a different sample rate and then import back to reaper, there's no phase problem.

you could try this by yourself and see if it happen.
Old 8th February 2013
  #10
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🎧 10 years
I probably wouldn't play them at the same time then
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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preachers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana ➡️
I probably wouldn't play them at the same time then
yes, they don't need to play at the same time, all i want to show you is that melodyne degrade any audio that pass through it absolutely!
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #12
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ol drippy's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by preachers ➡️
that's not true, in my case, i use melodyne studio 3 standalone.
first i import a vocal track, then export it without ANY TOUCH, import it back again, play the two tracks together, you could hear phase cancellation.
do the same thing in reaper, no phase problem at all, even when i export in a different sample rate and then import back to reaper, there's no phase problem.

you could try this by yourself and see if it happen.

You are saying different DAW's import it different? It's fine in Reaper? What DAW is it getting degraded in?
Old 8th February 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah but it's a phantom degradation. I would imagine that listening one at a time blindly, you'd haven't the slightest clue which one was which. I can't tell, yet no ones ever called me out on their vocal track sounding like **** unless it was a bad performance
Old 8th February 2013
  #14
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I've never found Melodyne to degrade audio except when you try something pretty extreme. I have also nulled two mixes which were identical except for one had a Melodyned vocal and all that came out was reverb and bits of vocal that had been tuned. Everything else cancelled. I am happy that Melodyne doesn't degrade audio. I think it is largely psychological. Do a null test and see what appears.
Old 8th February 2013
  #15
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by preachers ➡️
that's not true, in my case, i use melodyne studio 3 standalone.
first i import a vocal track, then export it without ANY TOUCH, import it back again, play the two tracks together, you could hear phase cancellation.
do the same thing in reaper, no phase problem at all, even when i export in a different sample rate and then import back to reaper, there's no phase problem.

you could try this by yourself and see if it happen.
That is to do with timing and not degradation. Something is shifting the timing when you export. Tell us more... What DAW were you using other than Reaper?
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #16
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Spede's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by preachers ➡️
that's not true, in my case, i use melodyne studio 3 standalone.
first i import a vocal track, then export it without ANY TOUCH, import it back again, play the two tracks together, you could hear phase cancellation.
do the same thing in reaper, no phase problem at all, even when i export in a different sample rate and then import back to reaper, there's no phase problem.

you could try this by yourself and see if it happen.
As a frequent melodyne user I can confirm this phenomenon. Once one imports a track into melodyne and it analyzes the track, the track is not the same anymore, but changed to something different being. That's how melodyne seems to work: actually transform the source.

That alone is quite a good reason to tune only few notes (if that's the preferable goal), but keep the rest of the track melodyne-free (comp them through playlists, etc).
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
preachers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol drippy ➡️
You are saying different DAW's import it different? It's fine in Reaper? What DAW is it getting degraded in?
Melodyne Studio 3 Standalone not a DAW.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Head
 
preachers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Famous Yard ➡️
Do a null test and see what appears.
i don't need to do that because the degradation is obviously!

it depends on your monitor, when monitor through a headphone or some monitors that not good at transient response like some dynaudio ones, it's not that notably. but if it through a genelec 10xx series, you can feel it suddenly. it's a HUGE degradation at high frequences! you don't need to touch anything, just let your vocal track passes through Melodyne!
Old 8th February 2013
  #19
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
when you separate the plosive sounds and every sssss, shhhh, tssss, breathing and so on, you will get a very improved result.
set the non-tonal snippets to the original pitch/formants/stretch... and you will hear the improvement.
its a bit tedious, but its very much worth the effort.
Old 8th February 2013
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I find, the only reason I sometimes think AT sounds better is because I tend to use it less, because with Melodyne you tend to really go ALL the way, correcting full bends, vibratos, drift, the lot. Used more in line with the amount usually done in AT, I find they degrade about the same, which in context is usually very little (well, that depends on the original material of course)
I just love MD for the workflow really, especially Studio so I can get fierce with the key commands.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #21
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Melodyne does degrade the audio, and not just the plosives, but all of the audio that you process through it even without making any adjustments. The most significant side effect is the loss of high frequencies with Melodyne. I much prefer WavesTune over Melodyne and Auto-Tune. I think it's actually a bit more work tuning manually in WavesTune than Melodyne, but it's the most natural sounding option by far.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #22
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Korgscrew's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana ➡️
It is INSANE how much Melodyne you can get away with sometimes... When tuning it, it can sound like a lot, but when you drop it into the mix, it actually gets hidden quite well.
Thumbs up for this!

I use it for tweaking an already great vocal track. Plus a few harmonies.

The biggest tip of all, is, to a have a "Good" Singer at least.

Hiden in the mix, ive got away with 1 full octive!

Be sure to use the Formant Feature wisley. Other wise you will get weird artifacts and MP3 sounding vocals.

I dont want to teach you how to suck eggs, but get as may takes of a vocal as possible! I get at least 8 takes of the main, for doubling and comping.

You will be suprised at how meoldyne differs from take to take. One take might be really harsh with it, but another will sound great!

Of course, we are not rushing these things, right?
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw ➡️
Melodyne does degrade the audio, and not just the plosives, but all of the audio that you process through it even without making any adjustments. The most significant side effect is the loss of high frequencies with Melodyne. I much prefer WavesTune over Melodyne and Auto-Tune. I think it's actually a bit more work tuning manually in WavesTune than Melodyne, but it's the most natural sounding option by far.
Mmm, maybe. Havent really tried WavesTune, so couldnt say. But I'd be hard pressed to say its a significant side effect, in the grand scheme of tuning a vocal. I lined up one processed and one unprocessed in Logic, and yes, there is a slight HF loss, but a tiny bit of EQ made it impossible for me to distinguish which is which. So I would definitely not worry about that, but of course what happens when you actually start tuning is a different story!
There I felt AT and Melodyne is on the same level just that you (I) tend to do more extreme stuff with Melodyne cause its easier.
Waves Tune might be better, I dont know. But what bothers me about tuned vocals is definitely not sound degradation, but loss of emotion and vibe, due to non-musical tuning (like you get in automatic mode in most tuners, Logics own for example).
Having access to a powerful, usable tool, that really lets you achieve what you want, is key in this aspect, at least for me. Thats why I found Melodyne to work better than AT (again, for me), because it allowed me to achieve what I wanted with much more ease, and reach the musical goals (as I'm into natural tuning)
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #24
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, I was using Melodyne for quite a while, but then I really sat down and tried WavesTune instead of just giving it the once over. I really think WT gives you the most control and is most transparent.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw ➡️
Yes, I was using Melodyne for quite a while, but then I really sat down and tried WavesTune instead of just giving it the once over. I really think WT gives you the most control and is most transparent.
Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely check it out thoroughly then! Just gave it a quick look and was like "nah", but I'll give it another shot
Old 8th February 2013
  #26
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scruffydog's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Melodyne is the one....and over the years has become a real monster.
(i bought the very first one and was straight on the phone to them...crying AS IT WAS SO BAD...and i mean CRYING!)
THAT HAS ALL CHANGED THOUGH
For me the trick is to note separate thoroughly and with great care.
I often detach the S's and leave them as is...perhaps deal with their volumes only...then i tend to manually tune and craft the overall shape of the lines.

Its very important to record well...and from there it is pretty much on the money when put in melodyne.

But i have been thinking of getting another one...Waves or Antares...not sure when.
I know melodyne so very well and that means a lot to me.
I actually used to like the old Antares rack back in the day... but it died on me and is rusting in the garage!

BIG love for Melodyne here..!
Old 8th February 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I totally didn't notice that I posted in this thread almost
4 years ago. When I first responded yesterday, I thought it was a totally new thread hahaha.

Either way you'd be hard pressed to hear a difference on a straight import and export with no tuning. Learn to use melodyne the way it's meant to be used (and there are a lot of tips here, chopping sibilance and plosives for example) and you'll be fine
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Head
 
Misionary's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I also find Melodyne to be more audible on certain voices than others. Some voices have formant stuctures that really allow u to hear the fixes while others are next to impossible to tell that it's been used. Also if I try and do a fix and I can hear it easily I can usually get around it by re cutting the point where the transitions take place etc. Melodyne does a pretty amazing job of figuring out where to cut the file but it's not infallible. Sometimes just recutting it or removing a cut and retuning will make it all but invisible.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
preachers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Faber ➡️
and yes, there is a slight HF loss, but a tiny bit of EQ made it impossible for me to distinguish which is which.
it depends on what genre are you working on, for some band-ish music, vocal is not that obviously so you can go with some EQ compensations without big problem. but in some other genres, vocal could be almost the only valuable element or at least the most important part like some Pops, Acoustics etc. then the degradation can be a fatal problem.
BECAUSE melodyne change the sound's texture! one can cost a lot of money for some top end mics and pres, all of those cost is for texture of the sound, it's not a simply eq thing, you can't compensate those degradations by using a eq.
so the singer's performance always the most important factor, but sometimes for some reasons, you can't get the perfect result in recording stage, you need to do some fix later. that's where these vocal tuning plugins/apps are needed.
autotune won't loss any texture thing (at least i still not find that), but it's not that flexible, and can't do timing things, as well as waves tune.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #30
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by preachers ➡️
it depends on what genre are you working on, for some band-ish music, vocal is not that obviously so you can go with some EQ compensations without big problem. but in some other genres, vocal could be almost the only valuable element or at least the most important part like some Pops, Acoustics etc. then the degradation can be a fatal problem.
BECAUSE melodyne change the sound's texture! one can cost a lot of money for some top end mics and pres, all of those cost is for texture of the sound, it's not a simply eq thing, you can't compensate those degradations by using a eq.
so the singer's performance always the most important factor, but sometimes for some reasons, you can't get the perfect result in recording stage, you need to do some fix later. that's where these vocal tuning plugins/apps are needed.
autotune won't loss any texture thing (at least i still not find that), but it's not that flexible, and can't do timing things, as well as waves tune.
I just use the DAW for the timing.
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