Quantcast
Design stuff - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Design stuff
Old 15th May 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Design stuff

Is InDesign any good and is it accepted by most printers these days?
Or is Quark still dominating by a mile?

Also for web design is GoLive good? What software would you recommend for building a website?

Alpha?

thanks!!
Old 15th May 2003
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Bbedit, "WebDesign in a Nutshell" from O'Reilly, and lot's of coffee.
Old 15th May 2003
  #3
Rab
KMR Audio
 
Rab's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re. InDesign... I reckon it's one of those "industry standard" questions. Technically it's good, but the industry has grown up with Quark, so most Quark users (me included) can't be arsed to re-learn another program. This is probably analogous to Logic vs. DP in the UK. The latter is a great program, but if you're good with Logic, can you be bothered to spend ages re-educating yourself?

Pretty much every printer will accept PDF's for delivery, so they won't care how the document was prepared. What they will care about is that it's technically correct (CMYK colour space, 300dpi images etc) so it's important to use something like Flightcheck to check a document before submission.

Re. web design... GoLive and Dreamweaver are both useful (especially if you're not an experienced programmer), with BBEdit to fine-tune the HTML. You'd probably find yourself using all three packages to get to the finished result.

Anyway, what's this got to do with valves?



Old 15th May 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
http://www.neostream.com/


whatever they used to build that website heh heh
Old 16th May 2003
  #5
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i use quark for print, dreamweaver/fireworks for the web.
Old 16th May 2003
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
oh, and screw bbedit unless they have come a LONG way since i used it years ago. its a lot easier to edit code within dreamweaver... of course if you dont know html, then you probably wont be editing it anyway.
Old 16th May 2003
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
maybe you mean bbedit lite which is the free text editor.

BBedit is da bomb for any coding, html, xhtml, xml, perl, php, python.

And if you don't know coding then you're probably happy with the messed up code that dreamweaver is producing for you anyway. WYSIWIG editors are good for quick mockups, but you can't really design anything that conforms to standards.
Old 20th May 2003
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
BTW if you really want a WYSIWYG editor and don't want to pay the inflated price of Dreamweaver or GoLive, you could take a look at Freeway Express
Old 21st May 2003
  #9
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jimlongo
And if you don't know coding then you're probably happy with the messed up code that dreamweaver is producing for you anyway. WYSIWIG editors are good for quick mockups, but you can't really design anything that conforms to standards.
i started out doing it by hand for the first few years. dreamweaver code isnt a problem at all, i build sites with it all the time, even in conjunction with fireworks. every so often it will do something ****ed up you have to flip to the code to fix but for design speed, doing it by hand cant touch it. although it does leave out some nice things i wish i didnt have to go in by hand with and imagine it there [like iframes] i was using BBEdit 4.5, i dont believe it was the light version but this was back in '97.

i looked at your site and definately dont see any selling point for BBEdit.
Old 21st May 2003
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i looked at your site and definately dont see any selling point for BBEdit.
ouch!


I looked at yours too. i guess you (or perhaps i should say Dreamweaver and Fireworks) don't care about standards too much.

You got an html document with no character encoding and no doc type declaration. Start by putting those in and I'll buy you a beer if your page validates as proper code.

Without standards you are designing just for your browsers. If you don't care about the public who may have many different platforms and browsers how can you think that they will enjoy all the marvellous content you are trying to display.

I don't pretend to be a professional designer, but I do take standards seriously. My original point was not to bash your site, but to point out that wysiwyg editors are poor html coders.
Old 21st May 2003
  #11
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
not really. because "standards" are just piss poor for the web. speak with ANY designer and you will get a huge list of complaints regarding it. the BEST one can do is have all the browsers and design to either make it "work" on all browsers, or shoot for a single type browser [usually able within corporate intranets where a single platform is used by all internal machines]

but the fact is my site works on any browsers i have checked [and you were obviously able to view it], and the majority use IE/windoze.... so, if the site works, it works... its well known that web design is more WYSIWYAG.

unfortunately however your complaints about dreamweaver are unfounded because they provide the ability to include it all, i chose not to on my site as it is out of lazyness [i literally throw together the site in about 4 hours], i also didnt include any meta tags regarding description or keywords. but just so you know how to do it very quickly within dreamweaver, just click FILE>CONVERT>XHTML and it will add all the proper coding. however, the "standards" are ****ed in themselves. like including an 'alt' tag for all images is not only unnecessary but bloats the code to boot, and do i care about people who browse with images turned off? nope. with a simple click of the mouse, check the updated "standards" you so kindly posted... with a click of the mouse, character encoding and doctype was included, although it doesnt like my 'topmargin' et al, the browsers like it [and thats what matters huh?]
Old 21st May 2003
  #12
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
oh, and i do profession design and i dfegad standards... we have to to make things work at the cost of "standards" [and i use that term very loosely concerning the web].
Old 21st May 2003
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i don't know why you've got such a woody for dreamweaver, it's nice you're so supportive of macromedia. Perhaps they will repay you for your loyalty.

You keep evading the point which is that coding by hand will give one a much better foundation to build upon.

Some kid who runs out and buys dreamweaver and throws together some gawdawful site is not a solid designer.

You obviously have some background so you're okay, but you know it reminds me of the way the music and sound business has become. People today can run out and buy some cheap computer and software and all of a sudden they're professional without any understanding of the art and science of recording and design. You could say "who cares" well as a professional I care, the whole system starts to fall apart, and people have to clean up the mess. You end up with ****ty music and crappy production values.
Old 21st May 2003
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
im certainly not evading any points. i coded by hand for YEARS, and going to a WYSIWYAG editor along with synchronized image editor far beats coding by hand, "flaws" in their code be damned....

still, you look at your "Standard" link you posted and its catching "errors" of no alt tages for rollover image links [which wouldnt be even necessary of a imageless browsing experience].... so even your checker is flawed. it also doesnt accept that some tags have been accepted by browsers even though their consortium hasnt accepted the fact, which is sad really.

coding by hand does NOT create a good foundation... and most certainly doesnt create good design. and im not sure what you have against dreamweaver.... it can most certainly be used on the code side to create pages fully by hand and not even look at the visual editor view. but its funny how you arent even a professional designer and seem to spout about what you dont even know about the subject and thats MOST professional designers use, and love, macromedia products [dreamweaver, fireworks, flash, and director... along with freehand] and since you dont do it professionally, then you arent aware of their site sync for maintaining large sites and multiple sites. knowing WHAT the code is and how to do it provides a good foundation for the designer, especially when the WYSIWYAG editors fall short with their output. i have no issues with flipping the page to the code editor and making adjustments. and that depends on the complexity of the site.
Old 21st May 2003
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
peace out dude
Old 21st May 2003
  #16
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
but you are definately right on one thing... people are buying these apps and thinking they are designers. i compete against these little ****s every day [and even get work from fixing their disasters]... i deal with them undercutting me by a great deal and delivering piss poor design to their clients, which in the end is good for me because i pick up the work fixing it. i just went through this with one of my new clients.... and picked up another this week because the owners son tried to do the design and failed miserably. its not a rework, its a total scrap ofthe work and start over.
Old 21st May 2003
  #17
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
pah

http://www.boohbah.com/zone.html
Old 22nd May 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
That's brilliant site.

And those little , ummm, blobs throwing shapes are excellent.

Where can I get the software to do that site? Looks easy...

Don't suppose it's WYSIWYG though, is it?

R.
Old 22nd May 2003
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
jimlongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here's one and two others that are quite mesmerizing uses of flash.

Flash is something I've never tried - I don't know how easy or not it is . . . it's kinda like cell phones to me, something i will resist as long as possible.

Go ahead call me old fashioned.
Old 22nd May 2003
  #20
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
its a macromedia flash site. its not easy unless you have scripting experience. its a vector based program and along with scripting functions, it functions much like illustrator/freehand/coreldraw but with a timeline.

they offer 30 day demos... try it out. www.macromedia.com

it offers much more than what is on that site. and more than HTML can offer up... but its more time consuming to create a flash site and the end user has to have the plugin installed.
Old 22nd May 2003
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey

Where can I get the software to do that site? Looks easy...
I'm sure you know that I was being ironic, right?

Hell, it took me 6 month's to figure out how to post quote on here. And all that takes is finding the lil' button at the bottom of the page.

For what it's worth, I tried the Dreamweaver MX trial version, made a nice little front page, just some having fun ya know, and then spent 5 hours trying to get to download onto my server. grudge

I think I'm gonna take a class or something...

Computers and the internet are such a big part of our lives now that it would be great to understand a little about what's under the hood.

R.
Old 23rd May 2003
  #22
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For gods sake, you weren't meant to analyze it, you were meant to go 'ooo look at the pretty colors'
Old 23rd May 2003
  #23
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
reminded me of teletubbies... thank god my song out grew those little things.
Old 6th July 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey


I think I'm gonna take a class or something...

Computers and the internet are such a big part of our lives now that it would be great to understand a little about what's under the hood.

R.
hey R,

if you find a good place/person to learn i'd be interested to know.

and thanks all for the advice and lively debate.
Old 7th July 2003
  #25
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Alpha

I guess your song's getting quite big now, perhaps up to the end of Verse Two? Or is he walking around the Bridge? Have some more, you could be the father of an entire album!
Old 7th July 2003
  #26
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
LOL, yeah.... he is in verse 3 right now.


back on the design front.
i mentioned macromedia products earlier. there is also corel suite and the adobe suite... all of which can be used for web, both of those can also be used for print. io just bought corel suite11 which isnt half bad although i havent used it for web stuff. it doesnt have the FTP management that macromedia has, which when you keep up multiple sites is a godsend to have it all together.
Old 27th January 2004
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Is it necessary to have Macromedia for the really creative work or is GoLive just as capable of producing nice movement?
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump