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PT vs Logic vs DP
Old 26th July 2002
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Adam's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
PT vs Logic vs DP

Hey guys, new to the forum but got some great info here. I'm a dance music producer, been using PT LE w/AM III card for about 5 years but was considering going to Digital Performer 3.0 to get better performance and it seems pretty cool as well. Running a Mac G3 500, hopefully going to a new G4 some time soon. Was wondering what you guys think of them in comparison across the board..

-adam
Old 27th July 2002
  #2
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DP vs PT

Welcome aboard

DP3 vs ProTools. In my opinion ProTools has slightly better Audio handling (Better than pretty much anything out there, lets face it.) But DP is probably next best, Although Nuendo guys may quibble with me on that.

Do you use alot of Midi Adam? If so DP wins hands down. DNA Quantise can give the feel of a Linn or MPC to your drums. Plus there's dedicated drum editors in DP also.
As I'm sure you know, the Midi in ProTools is very clear and easy to use. But if you do your 'Tricks' in Midi then you'll find it much easier in DP.
I would say that DP is second only to Vision in being tough to get into (My Opinion!! yuktyy) But if you give it some time it'll reward with results very quickly. The next upgrade will play Video through Firewire (Like ProTools) and import and play REX files directly.
I forced myself to learn DP for reasons of support for clients etc. But now I love to use it. I still Mix in 'Tools But I love to compose in DP and export it as an OMF session into ProTools (Printing Plug-ins as I go)
Oh. You'll get an increased track count with DP also. Just be prepared to dig into that manual...

al.
Old 29th July 2002
  #3
Gear Head
 
soapbox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Al, FWIW, I subscribe to a number of English magazines (Sound On Sound, Future Music, and Computer Music) and to many American magazines as well (EQ, Electronic Musician, Mix, Keyboard, Recording, etc.).

I've noticed a pattern that American reviewers find Logic strange and difficult, while English reviewers feel the same way about Digital Performer. Most Americans I know cut our teeth on Mac sequencers like Vision or Performer, so this way of working is what we're used to. In Europe, it seems that people often started out on an Atari sequencer, such as Notator or Cubase, and consider the object-oriented approach to be "normal."

Of course, these are generalizations I'm making, so YMMV. However, it certainly holds true for me that I found Performer to be straightforward and Logic to be convoluted as I learned each program.

As a result, Digital Performer may be less difficult for Adam than one might think.

Personally, I go back and forth between Digital Performer and ProTools a lot. I wouldn't want to be deprived of either program. IMHO, ProTools is unsurpassed for audio editing and mixing. At the same time, its MIDI is, shall we say, "underdeveloped." Digital Performer is great for MIDI, and I agree with Al about its audio abilities being second only to ProTools (and maybe Nuendo). DP also has some unique gems, like the Takes feature, MIDI clippings, and Polar, that really make it shine.

Al mentioned some very good features to be included in DP 3.1. Other slated goodies for this version are unlimited undo and redo with an edit history, as well as the "parent/child" audio file markers, and many new ways to sort files within the Soundbites window.

Logic Audio has many strengths as well. It is the only DAW that supports simultaneous use of VST and TDM, for example. In fact, Adam, of the three choices you mention, Logic is the only one that supports VST without the roundabout solution of third party wrappers. Logic Audio's integration with the new Logic Control is excellent and I love the way it can now display different mix parameters in multiple windows at once.

DP really shines over Logic Audio in its "copy protection" scheme. In DP, you copy a number from the owner's manual during installation and you're done until your next upgrade. In Logic Audio, an XS Key must be attached to a USB port for the program to work. This not only wastes a valuable USB port, but also if the XS Key is lost, stolen, or broken, Logic Audio will immediately cease to function until a replacement key is procured. If you work under deadline conditions, factor in the cost of a spare XS Key to the cost of the program.

I guess I've gone on long enough. Good luck Adam.

Best,

Geoff
Old 2nd August 2002
  #4
Here for the gear
 
Adam's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks guys for the response. I mainly work in audio, but I just got into Reason and I'm in the process of getting my gear a midi interface (don't laugh, i've mainly just worked with audio until now). I want to be able to program stuff in midi, and work with Reason or some sort of drum programming software (I was told there is a great plug-in in DP). However, I still work for the most part in audio, just cause i havent done it any other way until now. I really just was amazed with reason and how great it is to program drums and synths in there and not have to do it in audio. So I guess I'm a little stuck there. I actually have a copy of logic, but opened it up and coudnt do anything with it, really foreign to me, I guess i've just been using the same thing (PT) for way too long and got used to working in that environment.
Old 4th August 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
I'm a PT LE user for about 2 years now... I tried really, really hard to get into Digital Perfomer, but the instability made me give up...
Old 6th August 2002
  #6
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Fibes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DP3 works best for me, it may not for you... 3.1 will solve most of my gripes I have currently and hopefully won't add many more.
Old 7th August 2002
  #7
bleen
Guest
I used Performer/DP for nine years but since Logic 5 came out, I've been having a heard time justifying why I need to go back to DP. All the pissing and moaning from people about how difficult Logic is generally comes from those that haven't tried it (I know, I was one of them...).

It's rock solid, screaming fast and efficient, has a sample-accurate sampler built-in, can run TDM & native simultaneously, etc.

Is DP great? Sure! Is Logic? Yup!
Old 7th August 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Sorry I'm no pro

So i'm out my league here but it seems like alot of Studios in the States run a combo of Mac ProTools and Logic. This gives them the superior Audio Editing of ProTools combined with the excellent Midi features of Logic. Both Logic and DP integrate with PT pretty well with the upperhand seeming to go to Logic as far as integration.
Old 8th August 2002
  #9
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jeronimo's Avatar
Like I said before, I only left DP3 because it was unreliable... how does logic go?
Old 8th August 2002
  #10
bleen
Guest
Jeronimo,

I've had Logic crash twice on me since I started using it in March. I was considering myself lucky if I got through a day without DP crashing.

Don
Old 8th August 2002
  #11
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i dont crash in DP all that much. its usually doing something stupid [like putting one more plugin than the cpu can handle or running altiverb with the buffer way too low... same thing i guess]

it took a bit to figure out that adaptec wasnt a good scsi card with the dualghz g4... but since then i have been pretty stable. installation is REALLY easy once you do it properly.

install OS9. go to the OS9 base set. duplicate, and rename OS9/DP3 [or whatever] and install MOTU stuff.

i use all motu hardware so i dont know if that makes a difference.
Old 8th August 2002
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
yeah - what alpha said,

also - once you install all your DP3 software, OMS, Hardware device extensions, toast, etc etc - make a copy of that "virgin" system folder onto either a firewire drive - or better yet an iPod.

You will now have an instant backup to normal ability in the case you feel anything is not 100%.

Under the control pannel menu you can find "startup disk", go in there - select the "system" volume on your iPod or whatnot - and presto, you are running off your own OS.

When I take drives to track at other DP3 rigs, I always boot off my own system drive (that's along for the ride on the drive), so that I rule out any variables that the computer might have - instead I'm just using that CPUs hardware...
Old 9th August 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
Humm... I was using DP 3 w/ the 001... and with the dual processor always activated... maybe that was a problem...
Old 9th August 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i dont know of the 001 caused it, but its not something i would use anyways. i would certainly go with MOTU hardware using DP. i run a 1296 and 2408 [original] in my setup with no issues. and the 1296 is nice sounding.
Old 10th August 2002
  #15
Gear Head
 
soapbox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
FWIW, I've had no trouble at all using a Digi 001 with Digital Performer! ...But that was on a single processor Mac.

alpha, 255 posts already?!? You're the champ! heh
Old 10th August 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm driven by the standards: Protools in the states, Logic in Europe. If I have a problem with protools, I can call a million engineering buddies. If I have a problem with DP, I'm kinda limited. I'd stick to either PT or Logic, unless you are doing everything in house.

Logic's SRC is the worst I've ever heard. For years now the Logic faithful have been claiming there's nothing wrong with it. I believe these people are deaf, have poor monitoring, or both.
Old 10th August 2002
  #17
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Well put. I agree.
Old 10th August 2002
  #18
Gear Head
 
soapbox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I also agree that it's important to consider what the standards are in one's circle; but then again, whose standards are we talking about?

It's true that Pro Tools has become the standard DAW among the engineer community in the record industry in the US. However, there are limitations to that standard; and I especially wouldn't go so far as to call it the standard creative tool yet for musicians. (Remember, we're advising a "dance music producer.") Akai's MPC series maintains a firm user base in R&B, while ACID and Reason are strong creative tools among remixers.

While I agree that it's good to hand off projects in Pro Tools format, I am one of only two keyboard players I know who sequence in Pro Tools (and I've only been trying Pro Tools out as a sequencer for the last month or so). Most keyboard players I know still prefer an MPC, Digital Performer, Logic Audio, or Cubase VST. (FWIW, most of the Logic and Cubase guys I know are from Canada or England. See my first post in this thread for relevance.) We are all keyboard players who are involved in one way or another in the recording, film, or television industries; so if there were a standard creation tool, most of us would be using it.

The way I see Pro Tools as a standard DAW is when it comes to tracking live elements (as opposed to tracking sequenced keyboards) and for editing as well. Most of the mixing I know of is still performed using an SSL and outboard gear. However, if something is going to be mixed in a DAW here in LA, the DAW of choice is, of course, Pro Tools.

I guess what I'm trying to say in my longwinded way is:

Use Pro Tools? Yes.

Stick with Pro Tools exclusively? Not unless you're completely satisfied.
Old 12th August 2002
  #19
Here for the gear
 
Adam's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all the info, I know I will be at least temporarily "satisfied" with my 32 track upgrade for Pro Tools, but I got a copy of DP to play with from a friend so I'll check that out as well.

I know a new Mac soon will most likely help with my LE setup. Yea I do dance music, but I really see myself mostly working with audio, and I can edit like a mofo in pro tools and I know it would take me a long time to pick up all the shortcuts and stuff in DP. The only midi I do is sequencing a synth line, then playing it in. I don't really do multi track recording (more then stereo anyway) and do most of my tricks to the actual audio. Rearranging percussions, reversing, processing, whatever, I rather work in audio for that with plugs.

Again though, thanks for all the info!!
Old 12th August 2002
  #20
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by soapbox
Use Pro Tools? Yes.
Stick with Pro Tools exclusively?
Very well put.
Old 11th August 2018
  #21
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Desire Inspires's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Logic works best.
Old 11th August 2018
  #22
Deleted User
Guest
Holy THREAD resurrection!!!!! WOW
Old 11th August 2018
  #23
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Dan Eriksson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I hope OP have decided by now.
Old 11th August 2018 | Show parent
  #24
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Desire Inspires's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Eriksson ➑️
I hope OP have decided by now.
Nope, he was still looking for input.
Old 11th August 2018 | Show parent
  #25
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires ➑️
Nope, he was still looking for input.
Unlikely!
Old 12th August 2018 | Show parent
  #26
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GP_Hawk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Maybe he switch to nuendo by now
Old 12th August 2018 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Dan Eriksson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GP_Hawk ➑️
Maybe he switch to nuendo by now
Nuendo+Mac G3 500=
Old 12th August 2018 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
GP_Hawk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Eriksson ➑️
Nuendo+Mac G3 500=
Old 12th August 2018 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit ➑️
Holy THREAD resurrection!!!!! WOW
what struck me is someone commenting on Alphajerk's "championship" level post count of 255.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Eriksson
I hope OP have decided by now.
I think he is waiting for a few more suggestions before he "pulls the trigger".
πŸ“ Reply

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