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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 12th September 2018 | Show parent
  #2761
Lives for gear
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Awesome post B Elgin, thanks for your time and thought behind it
Thank you, I'm happy to invest it when the payoff may be another Cytomic gem. Really looking forward to the next Glue. My BC2-ME is on the mixbuss but I always wanted to use a 2nd one for parallel drum stuff. Plus I miss it when I need to stay ITB for projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
The TK Audio BC1 Ltd / BC2-ME are exactly the units I was looking at ordering for doing The Glue 2's HD mode. I need to contact the guys at TK and see if they are able to provide schematics. I've also been in contact with Joshua Stam from Stam Audio and will order one of their units as well since it comes with the vintage DBX amps.
That's great news! I believe TK have stopped their BC2-ME production run, but there should be some with dealers and the used market still. The BC1 was limited to 100 units and may have sold out too...I'd honestly lend you my BC2 to test and play with if it weren't such a hassle to ship audio gear in and out of here. If there's some way I can help with tones or testing, just send a message!

Thomas (TK) comes across as a friendly and passionate guy on email, but I can imagine many designers are protective of their schematics. If your contact with them somehow leads to a model of their Vintage Diode Compressor down the road, I would start high-fiving people at random.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
I plan to offer not only the a trim for THD of the amps, but hope to support full randomisation of all circuit parameters for endless mono and stereo variations. The THD trim will only be active in HD mode since it will require a detailed model of the amp rather than the "perfect" amp that The Glue currently uses.
Yes, that's a perfect solution! Changing and tuning the amps would really add to the versatility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
As for times, I would like to be able to support setting the attack, and release resistor values to anything you want, so people could totally customise them.
Again, ideal solution - and easy to hide out of sight when not needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
The work on the new solver is going really well, I'm pretty much back to where the old solver was in terms functionality, but the new one can handle better optimisations, larger circuits, and multiple different solving methods. I've the DK method solver automated, which is useful for small circuits, but I'm a lot more excited about a new method I'm calling the PDK method, which will be able to handle much more complicated circuits but still with a fixed and low amount of CPU. I'll have some actual real world numbers soon, but things are looking very promising so far. The PDK method uses a bit more compute power, but importantly the extra number crunching can be done in parallel, so I'm excited to be able to use AVX256 instructions to optimise it, and in the future hope to be able to utilise GPU acceleration.
Wow, pretty interesting. Looking forward to how you can leverage the PDK solver for more complex devices in the future. You've only released 3 (2.5 technically?) things in this past decade - but they're all essentials for me and I'm excited by the idea of faster product cycles once this R&D is complete. The upcoming AMD/Intel CPUs are already pretty absurd for speed and parallel capabilities - support for GPU acceleration would be even nicer though. Would that require some kind of bridge (like NVIDIA's CUDA?).

There's still a lot of room in plugin land for interesting dynamics and filtering tools with nonlinear behavior...besides fun and simple fx pedals, a monster character synth, and even things like a low-CPU line amp or stereo buss for faux-console simulation. Done to death perhaps, but still could be improved upon. Your randomization at the circuit level would be more interesting than brainworx's TMT method as well.

Nothing touches the realism of the drive in The Drop/Scream for me - having modeled preamps or fun stuff like Level-Ors to the same sonic standard would make me very happy.
Old 15th September 2018 | Show parent
  #2762
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here is a plot comparing the number of iterations required for regular "brute force" MNA vs the new fixed cpu PDK method I've come up with:


For very basic circuits that only have a few non-linear elements I can use something called the DK method, which only needs a single iteration to compute the solution. This will be handy things like basic pre-amp circuits, or simple drive circuits. Having these solve with super low cpu and individual component randomisation could well be enough to handle adding some subtle drive to every channel. The new circuit solving is already up and running to automatically solve circuits using the DK method, so I'm pretty excited to be able to use these less intensive mini circuit models in various ways in largest products.
Old 13th March 2019 | Show parent
  #2763
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Today marks 10 years since the first beta of The Glue was released! A huge thanks to everyone that has supported Cytomic. I'm looking forward to getting the HD version of The Glue out this year and to the next 10 years of plugin making.
Old 13th March 2019 | Show parent
  #2764
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Today marks 10 years since the first beta of The Glue was released! A huge thanks to everyone that has supported Cytomic. I'm looking forward to getting the HD version of The Glue out this year and to the next 10 years of plugin making.
Congratulations

Looking forward to the HD version.
Old 13th March 2019 | Show parent
  #2765
Lives for gear
 
EvgenyStudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Today marks 10 years since the first beta of The Glue was released! A huge thanks to everyone that has supported Cytomic. I'm looking forward to getting the HD version of The Glue out this year and to the next 10 years of plugin making.
Congratulations! That’s unbelievably huge
The Glue set a bar for plugin compressor pretty high ten years ago. Let HD version raise the bar even higher.
Old 13th March 2019 | Show parent
  #2766
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Today marks 10 years since the first beta of The Glue was released! A huge thanks to everyone that has supported Cytomic. I'm looking forward to getting the HD version of The Glue out this year and to the next 10 years of plugin making.
Congratulations Andy and a massive thank you... I still use it every single day!!!
Old 13th March 2019
  #2767
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Congrats Andy ... a good solid plugin can be built .. you proved it !!! HD - looking forward to it .. thank you john
Old 30th April 2019 | Show parent
  #2768
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Today marks 10 years since the first beta of The Glue was released! A huge thanks to everyone that has supported Cytomic. I'm looking forward to getting the HD version of The Glue out this year and to the next 10 years of plugin making.
Hi!

Demoing your The Glue comp now and I like it much! I really have problems finding a good mix buss comp for my digital mixes, I usually use my chain of hardware TK Audio for the SSL type and a Manley Nu Mu for a finishing touch but would like to skip those completely for ITB mixes (Klanghelm MJUC pulls off very decent Mu type for me).

What I don't like is plugins that drastically (and to me not in a good way) alters the sound of the audio just inserting without compressing: mix buss or mastering is not the place I want to add mush/haze and a tubby unfocused low passed sound. I prefer it rather clean but with a slight sheen of enhanced niceness, just like hardware Sub-busses in a mix I'm all for extreme color of course. Glue does not have that weird overly "analog modeled" sound to me.

My question for you is: if the new HD version is right around the corner (I read you wrote this year) would I get a fair update price for the HD one if I buy the current comp right now?

Only thing I'm missing is my 60ms attack from my TK comp but I know that's not an original SSL feature but I'd still love to see it implemented if possible

Thanks in advance for your reply and keep making great tools!
Old 30th April 2019
  #2769
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Is it just my imagination or does the 10:1 ratio sound better than the 2 and 4:1? It just sounds wider and better overall to me.
More times than not I've used the 4 or 2 ratio settings as usually recommended for a mix bus but re-thinking that.
Old 1st May 2019 | Show parent
  #2770
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Is it just my imagination or does the 10:1 ratio sound better than the 2 and 4:1? It just sounds wider and better overall to me.
More times than not I've used the 4 or 2 ratio settings as usually recommended for a mix bus but re-thinking that.
Isn't it just that you prefer 10:1 for whatever you tried this with? Obviously the sound is not the same with different ratios.
Old 1st May 2019 | Show parent
  #2771
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B ➡️
Isn't it just that you prefer 10:1 for whatever you tried this with? Obviously the sound is not the same with different ratios.
I get that but I’m talking about overall width and low end. I made adjustments to compensate for the amount of compression. Just listen to it, 2 and 4 sound very similar, 10:1 “sounds” different.
Old 2nd May 2019 | Show parent
  #2772
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
I get that but I’m talking about overall width and low end. I made adjustments to compensate for the amount of compression. Just listen to it, 2 and 4 sound very similar, 10:1 “sounds” different.
To have the same amount of compression, the threshold on 10:1 have got to be higher, that means more of the signal passes under the threshold uncompressed. Maybe this is what you're liking.
It's the same with clipping, a little hard-clipping may be quite transparent (but it gets ugly really fast), while soft-clipping becomes apparent right away.
Old 2nd May 2019 | Show parent
  #2773
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy ➡️
My question for you is: if the new HD version is right around the corner (I read you wrote this year) would I get a fair update price for the HD one if I buy the current comp right now?
AFAIK Andy promised free upgrades for the Glue owners (maybe he needs to set up a donate button).
Old 2nd May 2019 | Show parent
  #2774
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by meloco_go ➡️
To have the same amount of compression, the threshold on 10:1 have got to be higher, that means more of the signal passes under the threshold uncompressed. Maybe this is what you're liking.
It's the same with clipping, a little hard-clipping may be quite transparent (but it gets ugly really fast), while soft-clipping becomes apparent right away.
Did you listen to it before replying? I mentioned this to another user and he heard the same thing. I noticed it first without changing any settings. The width changes.
Old 2nd May 2019 | Show parent
  #2775
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Did you listen to it before replying? I mentioned this to another user and he heard the same thing. I noticed it first without changing any settings. The width changes.
As the ratio changes, the threshold does too but so does the knee shape and you can't compensate for that. The 10:1 is a very hard knee, whereas 2:1 is very soft. 4:1 is kind of in the middle. A softer knee will result in compression before you even hit the threshold and that's likely what you're hearing IMO.

As a result, each ratio will have its own character and won't ever sound exactly the same on the others (at least, not on real-world material). The Glue is also a complex little beastie (it's over 10 years old and still one of my top compressors) so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other stuff happening behind the scenes in addition to that.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #2776
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The difference in knees per ratio might explain why the 2:1 can show more compression that the 10:1. Good to know.
When I use Acustica Sand it doesn’t seem to react this way, 2:1 is less than 10:1.

It sounds like what I’m hearing is more side channel in the 10:1 setting.
Old 2nd May 2019 | Show parent
  #2777
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Did you listen to it before replying? I mentioned this to another user and he heard the same thing. I noticed it first without changing any settings. The width changes.
What I hear is that when I aim for the same gain reduction, 4:1 is more "busy" sounding, while 10:1 steps more on the transients but leaves the rest of the mix more "intact".
Old 4th May 2019 | Show parent
  #2778
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy ➡️
Hi!

Demoing your The Glue comp now and I like it much! I really have problems finding a good mix buss comp for my digital mixes, I usually use my chain of hardware TK Audio for the SSL type and a Manley Nu Mu for a finishing touch but would like to skip those completely for ITB mixes (Klanghelm MJUC pulls off very decent Mu type for me).

What I don't like is plugins that drastically (and to me not in a good way) alters the sound of the audio just inserting without compressing: mix buss or mastering is not the place I want to add mush/haze and a tubby unfocused low passed sound. I prefer it rather clean but with a slight sheen of enhanced niceness, just like hardware Sub-busses in a mix I'm all for extreme color of course. Glue does not have that weird overly "analog modeled" sound to me.

My question for you is: if the new HD version is right around the corner (I read you wrote this year) would I get a fair update price for the HD one if I buy the current comp right now?

Only thing I'm missing is my 60ms attack from my TK comp but I know that's not an original SSL feature but I'd still love to see it implemented if possible

Thanks in advance for your reply and keep making great tools!
It sounds like the HD version will be what you are after, it will add some subtle stereo drive, and you will be able to alter the resistor values to dial in any attack / release, or even auto release times you want.

The Glue HD will be a free update for all current license owners, and will still be priced at USD99 once released, so you're good to grab now, or wait till it's ready without having to worry either way.
Old 4th May 2019 | Show parent
  #2779
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Is it just my imagination or does the 10:1 ratio sound better than the 2 and 4:1? It just sounds wider and better overall to me.
More times than not I've used the 4 or 2 ratio settings as usually recommended for a mix bus but re-thinking that.
The higher ratios will leave all the audio under the peaks alone, and push the peaks down more, and so move the needle more. It is really personal taste as to what is best, as long as you like the sound more then do it! The ratio itself makes no difference to the stereo field directly, the left and right channel of the ratio shapes are identical.

Last edited by andy-cytomic; 5th May 2019 at 02:48 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 4th May 2019 | Show parent
  #2780
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
It sounds like the HD version will be what you are after, it will add some subtle stereo drive, and you will be able to alter the resistor values to dial in any attack / release, or even auto release times you want.

The Glue HD will be a free update for all current license owners, and will still be priced at USD99 once released, so you're good to grab now, or wait till it's ready without having to worry either way.
Perfect! I bought The Glue, didn’t want to take it off the ITB mix. Now I really look forward to the HD as well! Thanks, you rock
Old 4th May 2019 | Show parent
  #2781
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➡️
As the ratio changes, the threshold does too but so does the knee shape and you can't compensate for that. The 10:1 is a very hard knee, whereas 2:1 is very soft. 4:1 is kind of in the middle. A softer knee will result in compression before you even hit the threshold and that's likely what you're hearing IMO.

As a result, each ratio will have its own character and won't ever sound exactly the same on the others (at least, not on real-world material). The Glue is also a complex little beastie (it's over 10 years old and still one of my top compressors) so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other stuff happening behind the scenes in addition to that.
This is a great summary, thanks Funkybot!

The compressor itself has no knee that is added, it appears in graphs because of the way the compressor works, but plots generated to show the shape of the compressor miss a lot of the dynamic action of what the compressor does.

The envelope follower is a special kind of dynamic low pass filter, with a smoothly variable attack time anywhere from infinite (no attack) down to the time you dial in, which depends on the signal level hitting the follower. This is further complicated by the fact The Glue is a feedback compressor, so the effective threshold changes along with how much compression is currently occurring, which brings the detector back to this dynamic point with smoothly changing attack time.

In summary, basically the action of the compressor is super smooth and adapts to keep things smooth all the time
Old 4th May 2019
  #2782
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the info Andy. Looking forward to the HD version!
Old 12th June 2019
  #2783
Gear Nut
 
currentstatus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Can I just mention something.. I downloaded The Glue today, lovely comp BTW Andy well done. One thing "I think" is missing is an output level control, or is that just me? I'm having to use a gain reduction plug before my limiter. Same with gain staging on channels, end up with them being too hot unless a vol reduction plug is used.

Or am I overlooking something? Thanks.
Old 12th June 2019 | Show parent
  #2784
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentstatus ➡️
Can I just mention something.. I downloaded The Glue today, lovely comp BTW Andy well done. One thing "I think" is missing is an output level control, or is that just me? I'm having to use a gain reduction plug before my limiter. Same with gain staging on channels, end up with them being too hot unless a vol reduction plug is used.

Or am I overlooking something? Thanks.
There is an output makeup gain already, so you can adjust the output signal level to be whatever you want.

I am guessing you are wanting to use the peak clip feature, and you are increasing the gain a lot to push into the clipper. I didn't want to make the user interface confusing by adding another post gain reduction gain knob, so deliberately decided to only have the makeup gain and put it pre clip, since it is not possible to use another gain plugin after The Glue to do this.

Another option would be to have a knob that adjusts the signal level the clip happens at, but again, this is an extra knob and I want to have as few controls as possible on the user interface to keep it clean and focussed on its primary task, compression, not clipping.
Old 12th June 2019
  #2785
Gear Nut
 
currentstatus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks Andy.. I was thinking of just a trimmer right at the end of the chain. Could have been a small graphic on the GUI like a screwdriver hole with a pot maybe, bit like you see on the Maag EQ4 among others. I dunno just a thought.. I'm having to use gain reduction plug, maybe there are others finding the same?

Regardless, great plugin and excellent work!
Old 13th June 2019 | Show parent
  #2786
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentstatus ➡️
Thanks Andy.. I was thinking of just a trimmer right at the end of the chain. Could have been a small graphic on the GUI like a screwdriver hole with a pot maybe, bit like you see on the Maag EQ4 among others. I dunno just a thought.. I'm having to use gain reduction plug, maybe there are others finding the same?

Regardless, great plugin and excellent work!
I am more inclined to remove the Peak Clip button, and that way the plugin won't need an extra trimmers and will be more focussed on compression, not shredding.
Old 13th June 2019
  #2787
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There are times when I’m sending a quick reference mix and I’ve wanted to use the Limiter as a safety, but it just never sounds that good.
Any chance of reworking that so it’s more like the soft limit on the Apogee gear, or something like that.

And I still wish you could unlink the channels but I’m pretty sure you said that’s coming in the update.
Old 13th June 2019 | Show parent
  #2788
Gear Nut
 
currentstatus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
I am more inclined to remove the Peak Clip button, and that way the plugin won't need an extra trimmers and will be more focussed on compression, not shredding.
Yes that could be an idea, I tend not to use the peak clip button, preferred the openness of just the comp. But that cipping is great when you overdrive the makeup "that's when it starts to glue yes". But when driving it, I need to reduce the output volume hence why I use another plug. So yes a trimmer in place of the peak clip button would be perfect.

Just a thought Andy, don't feel it's necessary it's up to you.
But it would be nice
Old 13th June 2019 | Show parent
  #2789
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentstatus ➡️
Yes that could be an idea, I tend not to use the peak clip button, preferred the openness of just the comp. But that cipping is great when you overdrive the makeup "that's when it starts to glue yes". But when driving it, I need to reduce the output volume hence why I use another plug. So yes a trimmer in place of the peak clip button would be perfect.

Just a thought Andy, don't feel it's necessary it's up to you.
But it would be nice
If I remove the peak clip button there would be no peak clip and so no need for a trimmer since there would be no post comp clipper. That would simplify the user interface and no one would miss the not having a trimmer
Old 13th June 2019 | Show parent
  #2790
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
There are times when I’m sending a quick reference mix and I’ve wanted to use the Limiter as a safety, but it just never sounds that good.
Any chance of reworking that so it’s more like the soft limit on the Apogee gear, or something like that.

And I still wish you could unlink the channels but I’m pretty sure you said that’s coming in the update.
Yes, I do plan on doing a limiter, but it will be a separate product.

edit: also dual mono through to linked via a stepped control is going to be included in The Glue v2
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