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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 10th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2671
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
The Glue v1.3.18 does not recall settings from previous version in my sessions. Win7 x64 SP1, Studio One 3.5.1 x64.
hi, andy had mentioned / and there is a giant note on the installer that says you need to uninstall the old one before you install the new one .. or you will lose all your older settings

i am pretty sure i have the correct ...

andy can you confirm !!!
Old 10th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2672
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➡️
hi, andy had mentioned / and there is a giant note on the installer that says you need to uninstall the old one before you install the new one .. or you will lose all your older settings

i am pretty sure i have the correct ...

andy can you confirm !!!
Yes, you're right I did update in a hurry between sessions. SOLVED
Old 10th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2673
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
Yes, you're right I did update in a hurry between sessions. SOLVED
awesome !!!! now back to work mister !!! LOL ... have a great day, john
Old 11th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2674
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➡️
hi, andy had mentioned / and there is a giant note on the installer that says you need to uninstall the old one before you install the new one .. or you will lose all your older settings

i am pretty sure i have the correct ...

andy can you confirm !!!
I think the note says you need to authorise the new version in a blank project first, then open old/saved projects
Old 11th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2675
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld ➡️
I think the note says you need to authorise the new version in a blank project first, then open old/saved projects
thats it .. thank you .. !!!
Old 11th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2676
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer ➡️
The Glue v1.3.18 does not recall settings from previous version in my sessions. Win7 x64 SP1, Studio One 3.5.1 x64.
I haven't had any issues here. Did you authorise the plugin in a blank project BEFORE loading any saved projects?

(edit: yep, this was the issue, thanks everyone for already helping out while I was asleep here in Australia +8 GMT)
Old 17th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2677
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Andy,
The new version is sounding fantastic, however, I have seemed to run into a bit of problem.
The external SC is not working. (In LogicProX 10.3.1) When I assign the drum buss to my BasSubGroup. *where the Glue is located, It doesn't seem to work at all. It definitely used to.
Have I missed something?

Regards,
Matt
Old 17th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2678
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrixx ➡️
Hey Andy,
The new version is sounding fantastic, however, I have seemed to run into a bit of problem.
The external SC is not working. (In LogicProX 10.3.1) When I assign the drum buss to my BasSubGroup. *where the Glue is located, It doesn't seem to work at all. It definitely used to.
Have I missed something?

Regards,
Matt
Ouch, sorry about that. You have indeed not missed anything but in fact found a rather large bug. I've just confirmed that the sidechain input only works when oversampling is not active. I've fixed it and will release an update in the next few hours.
Old 17th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2679
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Ouch, sorry about that. You have indeed not missed anything but in fact found a rather large bug. I've just confirmed that the sidechain input only works when oversampling is not active. I've fixed it and will release an update in the next few hours.
Thanks Andy.
Cheers mate.
Old 17th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2680
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrixx ➡️
Thanks Andy.
Cheers mate.
Can you please give The Glue v1.3.19 a go and let me know if it's fixed the issue for you?

https://cytomic.com/glue
Old 17th July 2017
  #2681
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Sorry Andy, is this a Mac only problem or VST too? I'm not near my computer now but I'll try asap. Do we uninstall 1.3.18 first and then install 1.3.19 and authorise it on a blank project as before?

Edit: I confirm the bug in 1.3.18 for VST2 - 64bit (Windows 7, Studio One 3.5.1). I uninstalled, installed 1.3.19, no re-authorisation was required, the external sidechain works fine at all oversampling rates now.
Old 18th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2682
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Can you please give The Glue v1.3.19 a go and let me know if it's fixed the issue for you?

https://cytomic.com/glue
Hi Andy,
Sorry I didn't get to this last night. (hit the sack just before you sent this, sorry).
Looks like you have nailed it! Working great here!!

Thanks for sorting so quickly.
Regards,
Matt (in Radelaide)
Old 18th July 2017 | Show parent
  #2683
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrixx ➡️
Hi Andy,
Sorry I didn't get to this last night. (hit the sack just before you sent this, sorry).
Looks like you have nailed it! Working great here!!

Thanks for sorting so quickly.
Regards,
Matt (in Radelaide)
No worries Matt, glad to hear it was an easy fix
Old 22nd August 2017
  #2684
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Is it just me or does the new version sound even better? Seems like I can slam it more and it still sounds great.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #2685
Lives for gear
 
djshire's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I love this thing, I use it on all of my projects
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #2686
7+1
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7+1's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djshire ➡️
I love this thing, I use it on all of my projects
same here..
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #2687
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Is it just me or does the new version sound even better? Seems like I can slam it more and it still sounds great.
The core DSP is the same, but I did update and improve the oversampling filters. I also made x2 for Realtime and x8 for Render the default settings, so it could just be that. These oversampling rates are multipliers of 44.1/48, and if your project is at an equal or higher rate they won't do anything.
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #2688
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
The core DSP is the same, but I did update and improve the oversampling filters. I also made x2 for Realtime and x8 for Render the default settings, so it could just be that. These oversampling rates are multipliers of 44.1/48, and if your project is at an equal or higher rate they won't do anything.
Andy, any luck with new update (thd, nonlinearities, etc)?
Old 24th August 2017 | Show parent
  #2689
Lives for gear
 
ohmicide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Well it's hard to license something that doesn't even exist, but there are currently no plans to license an HD version of The Glue to Ableton. We did license some of the resonant filter algorithms from The Drop to Ableton, and they had both MD and HD versions, but they haven't used the HD versions since they take more cpu. In light of that I'm not sure if Ableton would even be interested in licensing an HD version.
Unbelievable. I would kill for HD versions of those filters and of The Glue. Ableton needs to get their sh!t together.
Old 24th August 2017 | Show parent
  #2690
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➡️
Unbelievable. I would kill for HD versions of those filters and of The Glue. Ableton needs to get their sh!t together.
I understand that they need to keep the CPU usage down since people like to be able to run lots of devices.

As a workaround I have been pushing for them to support "HD on render", since it's already an offline situation so the extra CPU won't matter, hopefully in the future they'll implement this. I'm also pushing for more advanced oversampling support, in particular higher rates of oversampling on render, and support for oversampling on bounce / export, as well as oversampling at the rack level. If you're keen for any such features then please email them. If lots of customers would like it then it's more likely to get done.
Old 24th August 2017 | Show parent
  #2691
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulderFBI ➡️
Andy, any luck with new update (thd, nonlinearities, etc)?
I've not even begun work on the new HD mode for The Glue. I'm in the middle of getting some videos done, then I need to finish The Scream, and then it's onto The Glue HD and VST3 support. Hang in there!
Old 27th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2692
Gear Maniac
 
Oni.'s Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
I've not even begun work on the new HD mode for The Glue. I'm in the middle of getting some videos done, then I need to finish The Scream, and then it's onto The Glue HD and VST3 support. Hang in there!
Andy I know you're a busy guy, but trust me if you keep improving The Glue you're gonna make the competition bite the dust again like when the plugin first dropped!
Old 27th September 2017
  #2693
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
3 plugins in what seems like 7 years of development. 3 incredible plugins. What a legacy you're building for yourself - respect man.
Old 28th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2694
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni. ➡️
Andy I know you're a busy guy, but trust me if you keep improving The Glue you're gonna make the competition bite the dust again like when the plugin first dropped!
That's the general idea It's a great compliment that the UAD guys decided to copy most of the feature set of The Glue 8 years later. The mix knob and sidechain high pass are pretty obvious additions, but it's great that they recognised that the Range knob (they call it HR) is important to include as well.

Now cpu's are faster it's time to ramp it up and do a full non-linear model of the gain reduction DBX/THAT chips, as well as the rest of the signal chain. In particular I'm keen on adding a trimpot to adjust the bias current and allow you to add more distortion if you want
Old 28th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2695
Gear Maniac
 
Oni.'s Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
That's the general idea It's a great compliment that the UAD guys decided to copy most of the feature set of The Glue 8 years later. The mix knob and sidechain high pass are pretty obvious additions, but it's great that they recognised that the Range knob (they call it HR) is important to include as well.

Now cpu's are faster it's time to ramp it up and do a full non-linear model of the gain reduction DBX/THAT chips, as well as the rest of the signal chain. In particular I'm keen on adding a trimpot to adjust the bias current and allow you to add more distortion if you want
So glad to hear you're as excited as your users at the idea of getting there. You really are the only Dev who cares so much about getting back to the drawing board to revamp and refine plugins as technology progresses. What I think is that modern digital processors should always give the end user the opportunity to choose their quality/CPU cost. What we hear all the times is that the X plugin has been developed to emulate the Y gear perfectly, and then the cpu costs have been reduced in order to make it easy on the CPU, which is an operation of obvious (but reasonable) downgrading. Now the fact is only I know if I care about sacrificing my whole processing power one one instance of a plugin or not, and the option of choosing oversampling rate for both real-time and bounce mode in The Glue is genuinely the best step in that direction one could've expected, even if from my (ignorant) standpoint I feel like something more than oversampling rate dictates the quality of the signal manipulation going on and, if I'm not talking pure nonsense, I think that could be an hint for a really smart move in plugin technology.
Old 28th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2696
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni. ➡️
So glad to hear you're as excited as your users at the idea of getting there. You really are the only Dev who cares so much about getting back to the drawing board to revamp and refine plugins as technology progresses. What I think is that modern digital processors should always give the end user the opportunity to choose their quality/CPU cost. What we hear all the times is that the X plugin has been developed to emulate the Y gear perfectly, and then the cpu costs have been reduced in order to make it easy on the CPU, which is an operation of obvious (but reasonable) downgrading. Now the fact is only I know if I care about sacrificing my whole processing power one one instance of a plugin or not, and the option of choosing oversampling rate for both real-time and bounce mode in The Glue is genuinely the best step in that direction one could've expected, even if from my (ignorant) standpoint I feel like something more than oversampling rate dictates the quality of the signal manipulation going on and, if I'm not talking pure nonsense, I think that could be an hint for a really smart move in plugin technology.
You're right that the detail of the model is a parallel level of quality compared to the amount of oversampling used, but also modelling everything in detail but making it "easy on the cpu" just isn't possible. Analog electronics is complicated so if you make things lower cpu you lose detail. Analog modelling is still pretty basic in terms of the detail possible, and I'm slowly ramping things up to meet the increasing compute power available.

I'm not alone in updating the DSP of plugins as newer processing power becomes available. The UAD originally had a basic 1176 model back in the initial days running on their old DSP platform, and since moving to SHARC they updated the algorithms for the new DSP and call the old ones "Legacy". Since UAD run on a hardware platform they concentrate on only one level of quality since they want a fixed amount of CPU.

I find the UAD approach a bit old fashioned, and I'm more interested in pushing what is possible with compute power. I like the way 3D software works where you have a preview render of the scene, but when it comes to the final thing you see at the cinema it takes a lot longer to render in full quality with all the bells and whistles.

In this regard all Cytomic software will have an "HD" mode where it does the most detail possible within reason, and possibly in the future I'll even add "UHD" where every transistor in every op-amp is modelled, including non-linear capacitance effects - and it could possibly all day to render a song, but it would be a very accurate analog model, probably too accurate for any practical use!

In 3D software, as part of the final render settings, they also support the level of anti aliasing (number of samples to average over to generate the final pixel, including the anti-aliasing type, eg Gassian, Catmull-Rom, Mitchell-Netravali etc), which is the equivalent to oversampling in the audio world (with linear, intermediate and minimum phase etc). The Glue currently has the most advanced selection of oversampling options I know of in any plugin, and all oversampling is sample accurate as much as possible so automatic latency compensation can be spot on.
Old 28th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2697
Gear Maniac
 
Oni.'s Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
You're right that the detail of the model is a parallel level of quality compared to the amount of oversampling used, but also modelling everything in detail but making it "easy on the cpu" just isn't possible.
That was my whole point! Let the user decide how taxing on the cpu the plug should be, just like you do for oversampling, obviously as along as changing the "modeling precision" doesn't screw up the whole process. Plus, and that's a big plus, as the direction the whole audio software industry just taught us in the last couple years, a lot of users are super happy to sacrifice processing power on just a handful of instances of plugins, like we can see from the explosion of the Acqua technology ( and I know a lot of folks who bash Acqua all the time for its CPU weight, but mostly use UADs which is pretty the same thing, except the company 'forces' you to buy yourself a (at least) 1000$ ticket out of the problem ).

BTW your 3d software/audio software analogy is spot on and represents exactly the point I'm trying to make here, and the fact most devs still won't let me, the user, push their plug-ins to the maximum power whenever I wish to makes me wonder about the quality of their product, you know.. like they tell us this story about the fact they had to lower the detail level to make the code cpu-friendly just to mask the fact that it's not possible for them to come out with a better sounding piece of software.

P.S.: Anyway, if one day you should think about programming some other vintage compressor emulations, remember that I'd be super willing to sell my house to support you at any time. Can't imagine your take on a Vari-Mu, API, Neve, DBX ( this one I feel you would totally nail ), etc..
Old 28th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2698
Lives for gear
 
Marando's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
That's the general idea It's a great compliment that the UAD guys decided to copy most of the feature set of The Glue 8 years later. The mix knob and sidechain high pass are pretty obvious additions, but it's great that they recognised that the Range knob (they call it HR) is important to include as well.

Now cpu's are faster it's time to ramp it up and do a full non-linear model of the gain reduction DBX/THAT chips, as well as the rest of the signal chain. In particular I'm keen on adding a trimpot to adjust the bias current and allow you to add more distortion if you want
I’m not so sure UA did copy The Glue for the new SSL compressor plugin, a mix knob and sidechain high pass are pretty common these days to include in a compressor plugin, it would be stupid not to include it. Sure it’s possible that The Glue is what inspired them, but it’s also possible it’s not. Just keeping the options open here. (Now, it might be that the reason it’s pretty common these days is because of The Glue though, I’m willing to go with that! ;-) )

Also, are you entirely sure the HR knob on the UA plugin is doing the same as your range knob? It’s not how I understand it. The manual says: ‘Headroom simply changes the internal operating level so that the plugin is not “pushed” into gain reduction as much.’

Based on my useage with it, I have to say it’s indeed not at all like the range knob, or at least it’s not to my ears. Please educate me if I’m wrong though!
Old 29th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2699
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni. ➡️
BTW your 3d software/audio software analogy is spot on and represents exactly the point I'm trying to make here, and the fact most devs still won't let me, the user, push their plug-ins to the maximum power whenever I wish to makes me wonder about the quality of their product, you know.. like they tell us this story about the fact they had to lower the detail level to make the code cpu-friendly just to mask the fact that it's not possible for them to come out with a better sounding piece of software.
Yep, it does smack of that a bit doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni. ➡️
P.S.: Anyway, if one day you should think about programming some other vintage compressor emulations, remember that I'd be super willing to sell my house to support you at any time. Can't imagine your take on a Vari-Mu, API, Neve, DBX ( this one I feel you would totally nail ), etc..
Hehe, thanks for your support! I'm getting quicker at doing the modelling now I have a robust semi-automated solver in place, so expect loads more plugins over the next few years that dive in deep and deliver sound of the level of detail not currently available in plugin form (much like The Scream can currently do compared to any other TS808 emulation on the market!).
Old 29th September 2017 | Show parent
  #2700
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marando ➡️
I’m not so sure UA did copy The Glue for the new SSL compressor plugin, a mix knob and sidechain high pass are pretty common these days to include in a compressor plugin, it would be stupid not to include it. Sure it’s possible that The Glue is what inspired them, but it’s also possible it’s not. Just keeping the options open here. (Now, it might be that the reason it’s pretty common these days is because of The Glue though, I’m willing to go with that! ;-) )

Also, are you entirely sure the HR knob on the UA plugin is doing the same as your range knob? It’s not how I understand it. The manual says: ‘Headroom simply changes the internal operating level so that the plugin is not “pushed” into gain reduction as much.’

Based on my useage with it, I have to say it’s indeed not at all like the range knob, or at least it’s not to my ears. Please educate me if I’m wrong though!
The Range knob controls the voltage power supply levels in the sidechain section of The Glue, but I've calibrated it roughly in dB to make it more useful to customers. I noticed when modelling various G-Series compressors that the voltage level (ie how loud the signal can go) in the sidechain section changed the sound of the compressor when being pushed hard (low threshold). Their older gear ran off a lower voltage level than their newer gear. The threshold boosts the gain of the signal going into the sidechain section, and then the ratio shaper gains this up even more and is the first place clipping at the power voltage rails occurs. This is especially evident for transients, with low threshold and high ratio. Clipping the signal here stops compression from happening, it is prior to the envelope follower and makes the follower think the signal is quieter than it is so doesn't compress as much.

This is the same thing UAD copied off The Glue with their HR knob. But don't take my word for it, please go ahead and ask the guys at Universal Audio exactly what the HR knob does and confirm it directly from them if it controls the power voltage rail levels in the modelled device and causes clipping to occur, especially in the sidechain section with low threshold, and more specifically in the ratio shaper (which will be the first place to clip), and then post back here with what they say

edit: if they want to they can post directly to this thread! I'm all up for an open discussion
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