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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 16th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2581
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21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm ➑️
just a note.... I know there are some additional features to this comp... to be honest I don't use the sidechain or any of the other features that aren't on an ssl except the release times I like the faster release. The SSL comp sound is not unlinked.... just to be fair this is a ssl model.

Anyhow... put it up against the UAD SSL today, again. I Like it better. More open, sounds bigger and a bit brighter and doesn't eat as much Low end as the UAD, sounds less pinched.
The Glue has slightly less color than some other versions of this I own, but it's still the one that just works every time. The IK one is pretty good too. I'm not a fan of the Slate version at all.
Old 17th June 2016
  #2582
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🎧 5 years
Are there any differences between the Glue plugin vs the one already in Ableton?
Old 17th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2583
Gear Addict
 
rydan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuXx ➑️
Are there any differences between the Glue plugin vs the one already in Ableton?
Has already been covered, but, yes. The Ableton version uses abletons implementation of oversampling and sidechain filtering. The Glue plugin has more oversampling options (higher oversampling rates). Apart from that they should be identical (apart from GUI obviously)
Old 19th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2584
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➑️
I wish I could unlink the left and right channels.
I've already worked out the theory for doing a continuous control vary the linking of the left and right channel and plan to release this to customers as a free update in the future.
Old 19th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2585
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
The Glue has slightly less color than some other versions of this I own, but it's still the one that just works every time. The IK one is pretty good too. I'm not a fan of the Slate version at all.
I just answered a support question from a customer asking about a non-linear main signal path element to The Glue. This is still a way off, but if you want some subtle colour there is a workaround: use The Drop!

A modern SSL bus comp has around 0.008% THD, which amounts to around -82dBFS harmonics from a full scale sine. The non-linearities are spread between the input buffer (with dc blocking) the main THAT VCA chip, and the output buffer (with dc blocking).

I've created a preset for The Drop that generates -82dBFS harmonics and dc blocks the signal at 4 hz which I think is a good setting to clean up the low end on a master bus without eating into any of the bottom end thump, but it's trivial to adjust if you want it lower or higher. I recommend putting this after The Glue for a little bit of warming.

Here are the download links for The Drop:
https://cytomic.com/drop

And here is the link to the preset:
https://cytomic.com/files/BusCompDriveHP-80dBFS.zip



PS: you can load presets with the trial version of The Drop, download and unzip the preset and drag it onto interface of The Drop to load it

Last edited by andy-cytomic; 19th June 2016 at 11:05 AM..
Old 19th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2586
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21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
I just answered a support question from a customer asking about a non-linear main signal path element to The Glue. This is still a way off, but if you want some subtle colour there is a workaround: use The Drop!
Appreciate The Drop preset, but I don't even need it. I love The Glue as-is. If you ever update it to a more colored version, I'd suggest thinking about leaving the current cleaner mode in as an option. I may just like it more.

I know you've had some stuff at home to deal with lately, and family is first, but I look forward to seeing some new plugs in the future. The two plugins you've put out to date have been fantastic, and considering how old The Glue is, it's aged amazingly well. You were really ahead of your time with that, and I still feel you don't get the credit you deserve for that. I think once the Cytomic plugin portfolio increases, people will really come to appreciate your modelling techniques even more. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'd love to see your take on something like an LA-3A (opto, which I'm not sure anyone has nailed, solid state front-end, schematic easily available, and not already modeled to death) or another cool tracking compressor.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2587
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
I just answered a support question from a customer asking about a non-linear main signal path element to The Glue. This is still a way off, but if you want some subtle colour there is a workaround: use The Drop!

A modern SSL bus comp has around 0.008% THD, which amounts to around -82dBFS harmonics from a full scale sine. The non-linearities are spread between the input buffer (with dc blocking) the main THAT VCA chip, and the output buffer (with dc blocking).

I've created a preset for The Drop that generates -82dBFS harmonics and dc blocks the signal at 4 hz which I think is a good setting to clean up the low end on a master bus without eating into any of the bottom end thump, but it's trivial to adjust if you want it lower or higher. I recommend putting this after The Glue for a little bit of warming.

Here are the download links for The Drop:
https://cytomic.com/drop

And here is the link to the preset:
https://cytomic.com/files/BusCompDriveHP-80dBFS.zip



PS: you can load presets with the trial version of The Drop, download and unzip the preset and drag it onto interface of The Drop to load it
This opens lots of doors for me, I never looked at The Drop like that. I tried that preset with different circuits and there are very interesting results. Thanks, Andy! If you have more tips or ideas to tweak that preset further please don't hesitate.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2588
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
Appreciate The Drop preset, but I don't even need it. I love The Glue as-is. If you ever update it to a more colored version, I'd suggest thinking about leaving the current cleaner mode in as an option. I may just like it more.

I know you've had some stuff at home to deal with lately, and family is first, but I look forward to seeing some new plugs in the future. The two plugins you've put out to date have been fantastic, and considering how old The Glue is, it's aged amazingly well. You were really ahead of your time with that, and I still feel you don't get the credit you deserve for that. I think once the Cytomic plugin portfolio increases, people will really come to appreciate your modelling techniques even more. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'd love to see your take on something like an LA-3A (opto, which I'm not sure anyone has nailed, solid state front-end, schematic easily available, and not already modeled to death) or another cool tracking compressor.
I'll definitely leave the current DSP in The Glue so that everyone gets an identical sound by default, any new non-linear stuff will be optional, possibly I'll call it HD like in The Drop, and then you can even have an automatic switch to HD mode on render like I've just added to The Drop - which is soon to be released in an update.

It's credit enough for me that people keep on discovering The Glue and over time it continues to establish itself stronger and stronger

The LA-3A sounds like a great device to model, and as you know I'm also keen on doing an 1176 (which has been done to death like you hint, but then again so has the SSL G-Series!), did you have any other tracking compressors in mind?
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2589
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro ➑️
This opens lots of doors for me, I never looked at The Drop like that. I tried that preset with different circuits and there are very interesting results. Thanks, Andy! If you have more tips or ideas to tweak that preset further please don't hesitate.
It's easy to tweak that preset to make it a bass booster as well, just increase the HP RES to around 20-30% and increase the HP FREQ till it's hitting whatever you want it to boost.

If you have a baseline you want to boost you can also track the cutoff to match the note of the baseline pretty easily. First convert the baseline audio to midi, then send the midi to The Drop, enable the MIDI button in the bottom right corner of The Drop and also enable the HP Keytrack and you're done!

If there are some slides then you can use the Glide time to smooth out transitions, or if you have a more advanced pitch tracker that can output a continuous audio rate signal that is dc coupled you can use the FM input on the Drop to exactly track the notes.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2590
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydan ➑️
Has already been covered, but, yes. The Ableton version uses abletons implementation of oversampling and sidechain filtering. The Glue plugin has more oversampling options (higher oversampling rates). Apart from that they should be identical (apart from GUI obviously)
Thanks rydan for helping out, you're spot on!
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2591
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
The LA-3A sounds like a great device to model, and as you know I'm also keen on doing an 1176 (which has been done to death like you hint, but then again so has the SSL G-Series!), did you have any other tracking compressors in mind?
I didn't even mention the 1176 because I remember you saying quite a while back that you thought it was over-done. I think the one you did for BFD was one of the first good native ones. At the time, I remember thinking it was better than the original UAD version which might have been one of the only other options. So yeah, another take on the 1176 would be fantastic.

Any other tracking compressors? There's the usual stuff. Apart from what's already been discussed, there's still: DBX 160, LA-2A, Distressor. If you go into Mu territory, you've got the Fairchild, Vari-Mu, STA-Level. If I could pick what you'd work on next though, it'd totally be an LA-3A, then the 1176, then DBX 160, then LA-2A. Just my personal preference.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2592
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
I didn't even mention the 1176 because I remember you saying quite a while back that you thought it was over-done. I think the one you did for BFD was one of the first good native ones. At the time, I remember thinking it was better than the original UAD version which might have been one of the only other options. So yeah, another take on the 1176 would be fantastic.

Any other tracking compressors? There's the usual stuff. Apart from what's already been discussed, there's still: DBX 160, LA-2A, Distressor. If you go into Mu territory, you've got the Fairchild, Vari-Mu, STA-Level. If I could pick what you'd work on next though, it'd totally be an LA-3A, then the 1176, then DBX 160, then LA-2A. Just my personal preference.
Your personal preference sounds great to me, thanks very much for your feedback, it will help greatly when I start on the R&D for new projects
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2593
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
Your personal preference sounds great to me, thanks very much for your feedback, it will help greatly when I start on the R&D for new projects
Thanks! To date, the 3A options are very limited (and has anyone really nailed it?) hence why that one's top of the list. Plus, if you could model the photocell properly, that one could come in handy when it comes to modeling the 2A.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2594
Lives for gear
 
Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
I've created a preset for The Drop that generates -82dBFS harmonics and dc blocks the signal at 4 hz which I think is a good setting to clean up the low end on a master bus without eating into any of the bottom end thump, but it's trivial to adjust if you want it lower or higher. I recommend putting this after The Glue for a little bit of warming.

And here is the link to the preset:
https://cytomic.com/files/BusCompDriveHP-80dBFS.zip
Thanks Andy, subtle but very cool.
cheers
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2595
Lives for gear
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
Thanks! To date, the 3A options are very limited (and has anyone really nailed it?) hence why that one's top of the list. Plus, if you could model the photocell properly, that one could come in handy when it comes to modeling the 2A.
Tim Patherick, a nebula 3rd party developer did the best 3A I've heard in software. The CLA-3A version does nail the timings but lacks weight and mid range thickness.

I'd love a RS124 or a Manley Vari-Mu by Andrew. I don't like 1176s at all.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2596
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro ➑️
I don't like 1176s at all.
That's just blasphemy around these parts!
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2597
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
That's just blasphemy around these parts!
Hahaha yeah, I know... Not my type of compressor, I think (same with the dbx160 and the API 2500).
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2598
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➑️
I wish I could unlink the left and right channels.
Agreed. Makes me think how little it needs changing though. What a classic plug he wrote. How old is this thing? One of the greats next to cranes song Phoenix.
Old 20th June 2016 | Show parent
  #2599
Lives for gear
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by traumerei1838 ➑️
Agreed. Makes me think how little it needs changing though. What a classic plug he wrote. How old is this thing? One of the greats next to cranes song Phoenix.
I bought it in March 2009, so at least 7 years now...
Old 21st June 2016 | Show parent
  #2600
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I have been Following Andy since his work with Elmer's Glue !!!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot ➑️
I bought it in March 2009, so at least 7 years now...
Old 29th July 2016 | Show parent
  #2601
Gear Addict
 
Hardsinc_'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydan ➑️
Has already been covered, but, yes. The Ableton version uses abletons implementation of oversampling and sidechain filtering. The Glue plugin has more oversampling options (higher oversampling rates). Apart from that they should be identical (apart from GUI obviously)
But does oversampling beyond a certain point make any difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro ➑️

I'd love a RS124 or a Manley Vari-Mu by Andrew. I don't like 1176s at all.
I'd love to see an RS124.
Old 29th July 2016 | Show parent
  #2602
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardsinc_ ➑️
But does oversampling beyond a certain point make any difference?

I'd love to see an RS124.
The Ableton oversampling is a much shorted FIR, so there is more high frequency drop when you use it. Also Live only supports x2 oversampling. For mastering you really want x4 or x8 oversampling on render to keep things super clean. If you are doing lots hard clipping and other severe processing you need up to x64.
Old 2nd August 2016
  #2603
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Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Andy, meant to ask a long time ago and forgot:

Love the plug as is for years, and I use it on every track but there's one thing that's been eating at me for a while that I think could add functionality without any negative effects to either the look, controls, sound, or overall vibe of the plug.

Is there any reason that the attack can't be programmed to go down to zero? (attenuates starting on first sample that crosses threshold)

The initial transient is often where dynamics control is most needed, but after discussing the topic with several people having to do with other comps, there appear to be a lack of options available that actually achieve this. Some have shorter attacks than others, but If the initial spike is the highest amplitude portion of the material (as it often is), then you still haven't reduced the peaks if you let it through... however briefly. You can address this with limiters lately, but this will now cause distortion. Seems preferable to simply roll back the attenuation of the comp to the first sample that crosses threshold.

Is this as simple as programming the attack back to 0 on the short end, or would it require lookahead, etc?
Old 2nd August 2016 | Show parent
  #2604
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It's true the LA3A is one of the few classic compressors that hasn't been done many times. The others mentioned are good choices as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
Your personal preference sounds great to me, thanks very much for your feedback, it will help greatly when I start on the R&D for new projects
Old 13th August 2016 | Show parent
  #2605
nms
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nms's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ain't Nobody ➑️
The initial transient is often where dynamics control is most needed, but after discussing the topic with several people having to do with other comps, there appear to be a lack of options available that actually achieve this.
This is exactly what a limiter is designed to do. The only thing holding you back is getting a good limiter (Fabfilter Pro-L for eg) and spending the time to learn how to use it properly. Unwanted/unintentional distortion is primarily a result of misuse. Experimenting on single sounds while you explore all the functions and find their sweet spots can help. Using a wave editor to view the before/after waveform and see what it's doing is also useful.
Old 14th August 2016 | Show parent
  #2606
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ain't Nobody ➑️
Andy, meant to ask a long time ago and forgot:

Love the plug as is for years, and I use it on every track but there's one thing that's been eating at me for a while that I think could add functionality without any negative effects to either the look, controls, sound, or overall vibe of the plug.

Is there any reason that the attack can't be programmed to go down to zero? (attenuates starting on first sample that crosses threshold)

The initial transient is often where dynamics control is most needed, but after discussing the topic with several people having to do with other comps, there appear to be a lack of options available that actually achieve this. Some have shorter attacks than others, but If the initial spike is the highest amplitude portion of the material (as it often is), then you still haven't reduced the peaks if you let it through... however briefly. You can address this with limiters lately, but this will now cause distortion. Seems preferable to simply roll back the attenuation of the comp to the first sample that crosses threshold.

Is this as simple as programming the attack back to 0 on the short end, or would it require lookahead, etc?
Part of the sound of The Glue is that it leaves a click at the start, this is what people like. Apart from the smoothing of the attack resistor + capacitor (one pole low pass filter) in the envelope section, just after this there is another opamp with resistor + capacitor (one pole low pass filter) at around 15 kHz. This second low pass filter smooths out the envelope and so even at the fastest settings a small spike will come through. Go grab an SSL G-Series compressor and give it a go, you will see exactly the same thing!

Since the compressor is a feedback design if that spike was squashed then the entire sound of the compressor would change drastically. This is not what you want. What you do what, as has already been suggested, is to place a limiter directly after The Glue, or use it's built in PEAK CLIP function, that's what it's there for! Hard shaping those peaks will not change the sound much, and you get the 0 mS attach time you're after but also keep the great tone of The Glue which would otherwise be altered.
Old 14th August 2016
  #2607
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Is anyone concerned about the new authorization system in place? The current system does not allow you to deactivate an authorization and allows up to 5 authorizations. Once you reach 5, you get 1 authorization per year.

This (for me) is a huge deal as I want to be able to re-install my OS or buy a new machine as often or as little as I like without such a strong restriction. At a minimum, a way to deactivate an authorization would be a huge improvement.

I absolutely adore The Glue (and The Drop) but this has me worried about the future and is also a little unfair that the authorization system changed when customers like me purchased it knowing it didn't use challenge / response protection.

There has to be trust between paying customers and software vendors and such practices only lead to the software being less troublesome to those who steal the software, than loyal customers who are paying for products. If someone intended to break the license agreement, why would they pay for the product? ... No other software I own (I own a good amount of stuff) places such strong restrictions on use, even software like Omnisphere and Sylenth1 which use challenge / response protection allow de-authorization or infinite automated re-authorizations.

I've discussed this matter with Andy via email and he fails to see the problem but wanted to ask your thoughts guys. What do you think?

Last edited by fgimian; 14th August 2016 at 07:38 AM..
Old 14th August 2016 | Show parent
  #2608
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian ➑️
Is anyone concerned about the new authorization system in place? The current system does not allow you to deactivate an authorization and allows up to 5 authorizations. Once you reach 5, you get 1 authorization per year.

This (for me) is a huge deal as I want to be able to re-install my OS or buy a new machine as often or as little as I like without such a strong restriction. At a minimum, a way to deactivate an authorization would be a huge improvement.
I'm with you. A limit on how many times I can install the software is a definite negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian ➑️
I've discussed this matter with Andy via email and he fails to see the problem but wanted to ask your thoughts guys. What do you think?
Please fix this Cytomic. The Drop has a good reputation, but it's not my only option, and I won't buy it if it won't allow me to reinstall O.S. as often as I want to or need to.
Old 14th August 2016 | Show parent
  #2609
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
One authorisation per year means you can buy a new computer or re-install your computer every year, which is loads. The thing I don't like about it is the license selling side of things, since this gets messy.

Please have a read of this in the Q&A section of the web page:
https://cytomic.com/#questions

I need to prevent excessive authorisations, otherwise unscrupulous studios will just buy one license on all their machines, which is clearly not ideal. So the new idea is 2 authorisations per year, but if you need an extra one that year just email me and I'll grant it. I'll also not show the authorisation count any more, as I think this is why people are getting worried.

I want my customers to be able to run a single license on two of their personal computers without issue, if you want to run Cytomic software on more machines than that then I recommend you buy another license. I feel that 2 authorisation per year, which an extra upon request will cover this just fine. What are your thoughts?
Old 14th August 2016 | Show parent
  #2610
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbruner ➑️
I'm with you. A limit on how many times I can install the software is a definite negative.


Please fix this Cytomic. The Drop has a good reputation, but it's not my only option, and I won't buy it if it won't allow me to reinstall O.S. as often as I want to or need to.
We need to limit the number of installs, otherwise there is no incentive for a studio to buy more than one license, which clearly isn't fair. We could switch over to using dongles, then you can only run it on one computer at a time - some people would prefer this, but I'm not one of them. I would prefer supporting people to easily run their license on up to two of their personal machines, so I'm open to ideas, and my current best idea is two authorisations per year, which another an email away. How does that sound?
πŸ“ Reply

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