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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 16th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2341
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think I confused everyone with my replies, which is completely my fault, sorry about that. I was focussing too much on ratio and not enough what you were actually asking, so please let me try again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➡️
this might be off-topic, however, I imagine I might get an answer from the man himself (Andy), as opposed to a separate thread... which seems to have availed nothing.
No avoidance, I reply when I have time, and definitely on topic


Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➡️
I was curious about how the Range parameter would be depicted on a transfer curve.

assuming there was one for The Glue... now, I realize that it is the "sound" that is the most important; however, the meticulous part of my mind wonders just exactly how it would be portrayed.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "transfer curve", but I will answer the question in by making up a definition myself. I'll call it a "static compression amount" plot to highlight that this does not depict the dynamic nature of a compressor. So you can construct such a curve as follows:

1) choose an attack, release, threshold, ratio, range, input sine wave frequency, and if you are using peak or rms to measure things.
2) send the sine wave into the compressor at a fixed amplitude, and measure either the output amplitude (peak or rms)
3) gradually increase the volume of the input sine wave and measure the output levels
4) plot these values in an x/y plot

If you do this then for those particular settings you get a static picture of the gain reduction amount that will be applied to this sine wave. In such a plot no compression will be a 45 degree line, some compression will be a lower than (more horizontal) line.

The definition of what the Range knob does is "Limits the peak compression depth", ie less compression, ie a more 45 degree line.

Does that help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➡️
From what I have read, the characteristics of some analog compressors seem to have a point where, once a sound source is loud enough, the compression no longer affects the signal... a characteristic referred to as "overshoot" I believe.
I don't know the definition of overshoot, so I will not use that term or comment on it. Analog compressor operate on fixed voltage rails which no voltage inside the device can exceed. Depending on where the signal is clipped by the voltage rails different behaviours can occur, which can lead to either more or less compression. If a very loud signal is sent into a compressor it could well clip this input signal, and so this would result in "more" compression on a static compression amount plot, as the output level is hard limited since the input was.

Some analog compressors already have their own Range knobs, and the placement and action of this varies depending on the circuit, but the result is the same: they limit the maximum depth of compression applied. I added the Range Knob to the circuit being modelled in The Glue does the same thing, it limits the maximum depth of compression applied.


Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➡️
Th Sonalksis SV-15 or whatever number it is, has that, "Crush" parameter which simulates this phenomena if desired...

and the Softube FET also emulates it I think, (among other 1176 emu's etc.)

Is the Range parameter similar?

I am on vacation and therefore cannot compare for sonic differences/similarities; so I figured I'd check the forum.
I do not know what other software is doing so I won't comment, hopefully I have provided you with enough information for you to make up your own mind. Just keep in mind a compressor is all about dynamics, and not about static plots of input and output gain. The position and type of non-linearities in circuits is critical in defining their behaviour and tone even if superficially they all do "gain reduction", and the same is true for models of circuits.
Old 16th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2342
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld ➡️
not to mention the section that tells you what oversampling setting you are using without drilling into the GUI, like The Drop has
Yes, I will make the GUI wider to fit that in, as well as more room for the preset names
Old 16th August 2014
  #2343
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
you made this too complicated...

I think a simple yes, no, or "yeah, somewhat similar" would've sufficed.

**No need for acoustical engineering dissertation, or consultation with legal counsel on how you should or shouldn't answer based on the inclusion and/or comparison of other said manufacturers in the computer software plugin industry. **

Here's the Tonebooster's Compression plugin.

First instance: the range parameter is large enough that it does not affect diagram.

Second instance: the range parameter is low enough, that the diagram is affected as such.


Is the Glue's range parameter similar?.. that's it.

yes, no, kind of?

** paragraph not be taken as angry, or frustrated... purely comical, please do not be offended by it... it's not supposed to be offensive
Attached Thumbnails
Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin-screen-shot-2014-08-16-1.19.04-pm.png   Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin-screen-shot-2014-08-16-1.19.23-pm.png  
Old 17th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2344
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➡️
you made this too complicated...

I think a simple yes, no, or "yeah, somewhat similar" would've sufficed.
If a compressor starts compressing, and then at some stage eases off compression this is what a plot like this will look like, the point is those plots don't tell you much else, and I already said this happens. So I did answer your question over and over again with the basic statement: "The Range knob limits the maximum peak depth of compression applied." If I made any other sort of answer people could get the wrong idea, so I am very careful with my replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➡️
**No need for acoustical engineering dissertation, or consultation with legal counsel on how you should or shouldn't answer based on the inclusion and/or comparison of other said manufacturers in the computer software plugin industry. **
Actually answering "yeah somewhat similar" would cause more problems that it would help with, since most people will jump to the wrong conclusions since this is vastly oversimplifying the situation. I am more comfortable being more rigorous about things, since I have seen time and time again people get completely the wrong idea in their heads about this sort of thing.

For example, let us not even consider a situation where two such plots are not just "somewhat similar", but lets instead consider two different compressors that have identical "static compression amount" curves then you could quite happy use either of them and get at least "somewhat similar" result right? Wrong.

Well here is exactly this situation in audio examples for you, with not even just "somewhat similar" plots, but exactly the same plots. Have a listen to the attached files, which are one point on this plot, and tell me what you think, they both take a 0 dB 1khz size wave and attenuate the peak level by -12 dB.

So since you can take from such plots only the most vague idea of what is going on in the compressor then it is much better for me to say "the Range knob limits the peak compression amount" since this already says all you need to know, and doesn't cloud anyones minds with associations to plots which don't tell you anything useful anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➡️
** paragraph not be taken as angry, or frustrated... purely comical, please do not be offended by it... it's not supposed to be offensive
Absolutely no offense taken (I'm not actually sure a forum post could ever offend me), I am just vaguely amused at how attached you are to plots which don't offer any much useful information at all, and how you reject plots that do! If you want a deeper understanding of how a compressor works and what makes it sound good then please ignore these "static compression amount" plots.

WARNING - TURN DOWN THE VOLUME BEFORE PLAYING THESE FILES, THEY ARE TEST SIGNALS NOT MUSIC
Attached Files

compamount-input.wav (520.8 KB, 466 views)

compamount-compressor-a.wav (573.5 KB, 471 views)

compamount-compressor-b.wav (763.4 KB, 671 views)

Old 17th August 2014
  #2345
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
tbh, i'm actually in the process of having one of these plots surgically attached to my cerebral cortex...
Old 17th August 2014
  #2346
Lives for gear
 
climber's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I keep seeing this thread pop to the top and I get a burst of hope that it's an announcement that the AAX is done - and as always, I am disappointed.
Old 17th August 2014
  #2347
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
i have been trying to use patchwork but it is causing bad issues with PT11 for ME .. still waiting for the Real Thing (AAX the GLue) .. not worth all the pain of a Wrapper … this is just FOR ME .. others are not having issues ..
Old 17th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2348
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➡️
i have been trying to use patchwork but it is causing bad issues with PT11 for ME .. still waiting for the Real Thing (AAX the GLue) .. not worth all the pain of a Wrapper … this is just FOR ME .. others are not having issues ..
Out of curiosity what are the issues?
Old 17th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2349
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber ➡️
I keep seeing this thread pop to the top and I get a burst of hope that it's an announcement that the AAX is done - and as always, I am disappointed.
+1
Old 17th August 2014
  #2350
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
i had the following issues happen in both PT10 and PT11 .. after going through moving all plugins out of folder to New Unused PLugins Folder 2 - not the standard unused plugins folder (allowing all default PT11 plugins to rebuild) my issues are gone for now .. but i am not going though this again .. so no wrappers for me .. not sure if that was the reason but a wasted day of work with clients is not cool ..

cheers john

PS .. it took both PT10 and PT11 down .. weird for sure
Attached Thumbnails
Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin-pt11-error-cannot-open-8-10-14.png   Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin-pro-tools-11-error-1.png   Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin-pt10-error-ran-out-mem-scan-plugins-folder.png  
Old 17th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2351
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➡️
i had the following issues happen in both PT10 and PT11 .. after going through moving all plugins out of folder to New Unused PLugins Folder 2 - not the standard unused plugins folder (allowing all default PT11 plugins to rebuild) my issues are gone for now .. but i am not going though this again .. so no wrappers for me .. not sure if that was the reason but a wasted day of work with clients is not cool ..

cheers john

PS .. it took both PT10 and PT11 down .. weird for sure
I assume this is on the mac pro in your signature? The 3rd error window you posted, usually just start pt10 again and it will finish scanning the remaining plugins..

I don't believe these errors have anything to do really with patchwork (bugs have been fixed FAST by blue cat since it came out) TBH but I could be wrong. Also by "moving all plugins.." what plugins are you moving and from where? pro tools 11 plugin folder? pt10 plugin folder?

I'm asking because I have been on the fence to buy the glue even with no AAX because I can just use patchworks which has been running fine with any plugin or combo of plugins I throw at it. Not only is it great for hosting plugs that do not have aax64 like pod farm which may never see an aax version but you can also do a track freeze using the audiosuite among other cool parallel processing
Old 18th August 2014
  #2352
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
glenjb, yes on the macpro / i would not have gone through this if just restting PT10 would have fixed it .. i tried restarting many times / i am not sure it was patchwork either but running smooth since removed / moving plugins - all PT11 & PT10 folders / the Glue worked fine within Patchwork … it may work fine for you … just not working for me on My System … cheers john
Old 26th August 2014
  #2353
Gear Maniac
 
rootberg's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
First of all. When clicking a sound example above I was frightened by the sine tone and spilled coffee on my keyboard, made me laugh... Keyboard seems fine though...

On another note. I've noticed I like the SSL sound and have demoed Duende native SSL, Waves SSL and used Nebula Alex B programs (getting a headache per usual). So this compressor looks really interesting to me, and from the demo it really is the sound I associate with SSL and that I like. I want to keep my plugins to a minimum so I tried to emulate what the Glue does with Reacomp, but I didn't really get there. So without asking for the source code, could Andy perhaps give a clue as to what goes on differently?

In Reacomp I have these settings: Threshold, Pre-Comp, Attack, Release, Classic attack switch, Auto Release switch, Ratio, Knee Size, Lowpass&Highpass on input detector, Sidechain option, RMS Size. Wet and dry knob. Are these not enough?

I've noticed part of the SSL sound is what I would like to describe as a sort of controlled musical "thinning" of the sound, without it loosing the powerful feel (sorry for the subjective language, but it's all I got). Is there EQ curves going on? Or other more complex curves for the compression going on? Is it adding harmonic content to compensate for the controlled thinning sound? Is getting "the glue" sound in Reacomp a dream?

I'm asking partly because I've been impressed by the studies showing why I don't really need another digital eq, but I'm guessing compression is more complicated to model. Any thoughts?


Update: Actually after some more trial and error I pretty much got the snappy SSL sound I was looking for with Reacomp. It came down to knee value, RMS and the relation of wet to dry together with how hard I hit the compressor. But I have to re-evaluate because the ears get tired etc---

Last edited by rootberg; 26th August 2014 at 11:35 PM.. Reason: New discoveries
Old 27th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2354
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
First of all. When clicking a sound example above I was frightened by the sine tone and spilled coffee on my keyboard, made me laugh... Keyboard seems fine though...
Woops, sorry about that! I'll add a loudness warning to my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
On another note. I've noticed I like the SSL sound and have demoed Duende native SSL, Waves SSL and used Nebula Alex B programs (getting a headache per usual). So this compressor looks really interesting to me, and from the demo it really is the sound I associate with SSL and that I like. I want to keep my plugins to a minimum so I tried to emulate what the Glue does with Reacomp, but I didn't really get there. So without asking for the source code, could Andy perhaps give a clue as to what goes on differently?

In Reacomp I have these settings: Threshold, Pre-Comp, Attack, Release, Classic attack switch, Auto Release switch, Ratio, Knee Size, Lowpass&Highpass on input detector, Sidechain option, RMS Size. Wet and dry knob. Are these not enough?
Reacomp is a normal digital compressor, in other words it isn't even trying to model a particular circuit, so for a particular compression depth for a specific tiny loop of audio you may be able to get something reasonably close if you get all the settings just right. In regular use though you won't get close results at all, they are fundamentally different in operation.

Even with compressors that are circuit modelled this alone doesn't help much tell you if it will sound much like the circuit being modelled, since the model could be anything at all. All the marketing will tell you things like "every nuance of every component in the circuit has been accurately modelled" but such statements are complete rubbish and totally meaningless since almost every company says this, but clearly some plugins sound much better than others.

For example if you feed a sine wave to a circuit model of an SSL bus compressor you should naturally get the same harmonics series generated by the non-linear action of the compressor. Ok lets do just that and have a look at the results, these plots are all done with identical settings, the same compression depth, and done using the same input sine wave (which isn't a very musical test since regular audio isn't just a static sine wave, so this should be an easy one to get "right"):





In particular note the shape of the rolloff of the harmonics, the first two curve downwards with higher frequency so up around the 18 khz the first two plots have no harmonic content at all, but the third still has strong harmonics that then bounce back and alias. Also note that the first two have second order harmonics, and the third does not. The first two are an analog SSL bus compressor and The Glue respectively, the last one is Duende.

So it's not just that Reacomp itself isn't even an analog model of an SSL compressor, even actual circuit models still won't behave in the same way if the model doesn't have enough detail to it, and doing accurate circuit models that run with low cpu in a stable way is a reasonably hard thing to do, otherwise I would not be in business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
I've noticed part of the SSL sound is what I would like to describe as a sort of controlled musical "thinning" of the sound, without it loosing the powerful feel (sorry for the subjective language, but it's all I got). Is there EQ curves going on? Or other more complex curves for the compression going on? Is it adding harmonic content to compensate for the controlled thinning sound? Is getting "the glue" sound in Reacomp a dream?
You are right, compression is non-linear process, and in general non-linear processes are harder to model. There is no EQ being applied to the main audio signal (you can enable dc blocking but you won't really hear that since it is a high pass filter at around 1.5 hz). The volume is reduced in a very smooth way, and this also produces some low level harmonics which you could view as a kind of exciter (you can see what happens to the sine wave above). You will not be able to get the same sound out of Reacomp easily as they are fundamentally different non-linear processing devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
I'm asking partly because I've been impressed by the studies showing why I don't really need another digital eq, but I'm guessing compression is more complicated to model. Any thoughts?
Now you need to be careful here since "digital eq" covers a lot of ground. If you mean a "linear parametric digital eq" then I agree that if you don't automate the settings and you stick to cutoff frequencies of below 15 khz then the only benefit of using a digital eq plugin will be how quickly you can dial in the setting you want. Most "linear parametric digital eqs" are sold on modelling how accurately they match the amplitude (not phase) response at greater than 15 khz if you run a project at 44.1 / 48 khz. As soon as you run your project at 88.2 / 96 khz then you will not only get accurate matching of amplitude, but the phase will also match, and this is with any digital EQ including the your DAWs built in EQ. Another thing these EQs are sold on is an interaction of bandwidth and gain, so that can save some dial dialing in the setting you want.

There are also non-linear EQs, and passive EQs that have a very complicated interactions of bands (Massive Passive etc), the non-linear side is impossible to model with a linear eq, and the complicated interactions are usually too complicated to do by hand, but it can be done. As an example there is a paper that shows how to match the passive tone stack EQ shapes of typical guitar amps to the coefficients of a widely used digital EQ algorithm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
Update: Actually after some more trial and error I pretty much got the snappy SSL sound I was looking for with Reacomp. It came down to knee value, RMS and the relation of wet to dry together with how hard I hit the compressor. But I have to re-evaluate because the ears get tired etc---
If you are happy with the sound you can get from Recomp then that is all that matters, it won't stop you from making a great sounding track, the content of the track is more important than the production!

But please note that The Glue has no setting for knee, and none for rms, these two things (and many more!) are a result of the circuit model itself and not some parameter that has to be tacked on afterwards to try and get it to sound better.
Old 27th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2355
Gear Maniac
 
rootberg's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Excellent and very informative answer Andy! Much appreciated.
I was actually about to update my post again after some more tests this morning to say that The Glue does something subtle and different from ReaComp even on a simple loop. Then I saw your post. It is a good point that it's easier to get it to sound "close enough" if you concentrate on a single loop.

All this made me think about the importance of setting limits on musical studio tools. In theory even if I had before me a digital compressor with limitless ability to tweak attack-curves, rms behavior, saturation levels etc til infinity. It would still take dedicated analysis (and much time!) to make it usable in any given application. So in practice we let someone with more in-depth knowledge of the mathematics of audio set musical limits to what we get to play with so that we can concentrate on the most important tweaks, like attack, threshold etc.

Interesting thoughts on digital EQ as well.

I'm actually a math student but have only recently started to think about the art of audio in terms of math so I don't have a good understanding as to how aliasing is introduced etc, I have deep respect for what you do!

Looking at the curves was informative. I notice the analog unit has noise that is not present in the Glue, have you thought of making a "noise on" button. Would it be hard to recreate the authentic noise of the analog unit? It's not exactly just white noise, it looks very complicated actually. Sort of like "try to simulate the behavior of sand blowing in the wind".

Update: The Glue might just be my next compressor purchase. I've grown to like it :D
Old 28th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2356
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
Excellent and very informative answer Andy! Much appreciated.
I was actually about to update my post again after some more tests this morning to say that The Glue does something subtle and different from ReaComp even on a simple loop. Then I saw your post. It is a good point that it's easier to get it to sound "close enough" if you concentrate on a single loop.

All this made me think about the importance of setting limits on musical studio tools. In theory even if I had before me a digital compressor with limitless ability to tweak attack-curves, rms behavior, saturation levels etc til infinity. It would still take dedicated analysis (and much time!) to make it usable in any given application. So in practice we let someone with more in-depth knowledge of the mathematics of audio set musical limits to what we get to play with so that we can concentrate on the most important tweaks, like attack, threshold etc.
You're welcome! Your question was great from my point of view since it hit on so many interesting points I could address. You are right to be dubious about "analog modelling" since it has been so widely abused a term for so long that it no longer carries much meaning and you are right to look to existing bundled plugins or free tools wherever possible. Hopefully I've explained enough so show that there are exceptions to this and you need to evaluate each product individually to decide if you think it is worth the price.

I didn't spend time tweaking the design to make it work well with a wide variety of audio and always sound great, this is a product of doing an accurate circuit model of the interaction of the important components and their layout and interaction in the circuit. So it is the designers of the original circuit that deserve the credit for the great sound, but it does take some effort to translate this well into digital preserving the sound with a reasonable amount of cpu.

Also (unless you deliberately design them to) with a circuit things seem to sound smoother and bend more gracefully when pushed hard. You never get something for nothing in a circuit, there is always give and take. Digital algorithms tend to not sound as graceful when when pushed to their bounds since they don't have to deal with any physically realistic limits. This also translates into useful ranges of knobs, with digital plugins sometimes you have the tiniest of "sweet spots" where things sound ok, but with a good circuit you can turn all the knobs anywhere you want and it all sounds good no matter what, each change is useful variations on good which you can make your choice from in the context of the current material you are processing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
Interesting thoughts on digital EQ as well.
It is a deep subject so I had to be brief, but it is an area I hope to be able to talk more about after I've done my own non-linear EQ product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
I'm actually a math student but have only recently started to think about the art of audio in terms of math so I don't have a good understanding as to how aliasing is introduced etc, I have deep respect for what you do!

Looking at the curves was informative. I notice the analog unit has noise that is not present in the Glue, have you thought of making a "noise on" button. Would it be hard to recreate the authentic noise of the analog unit? It's not exactly just white noise, it looks very complicated actually. Sort of like "try to simulate the behavior of sand blowing in the wind".
I think it is important to mention that I didn't try and match the harmonics at all, I instead modelled randomness on the "manufacture" of the component values, and this naturally led to the second order harmonics you see when these component values were used in the circuit model. Each different analog circuit will not exactly match the other either, some will have slightly more or less second order harmonics, but the general shape will be the same.

I've not yet heard a decent circuit model of circuit noise that I couldn't tell was just some white noise added somewhere to the signal (which is what most developers do and I don't feel this is a useful thing to do). I am very interested in doing good noise models in the future, but that is another large area of research in itself. Just like there are models for the large signal behaviour of different components there are also noise models, but the amount of cpu involved is very large, so it will take some effort to make lower cpu approximations for these so that they don't take around x10 the cpu of the current no-noise algorithm!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootberg ➡️
Update: The Glue might just be my next compressor purchase. I've grown to like it :D
In the end a good song will always be more important than its production, so using existing tools in Reaper or Logic etc will get you a very long way. If you want that extra little sparkle on your mix then The Glue does help. It is also fun to absolutely slam some loops for effect, try it on a kick heavy drum loop / buss and turn all the knobs to their maximum and have a listen, then try that with another compressor and see what happens
Old 28th August 2014
  #2357
Lives for gear
 
Midnight Oil Audio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hi Andy, pardon my ignorance, but how exactly did you get the results above with a sine wave? square, sawtooth, etc?

I fed a 1khz sine wave into various compressors, each with about 10db of reduction and could only get a readout of the 1hkz sine itself. No harmonics generated. Obviously Im doing something wrong, or I just dont understand what Im doing. Any and all help would be appreciated.
Old 12th September 2014
  #2358
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
AAX??? Please??? Starting to wish I had spent my $$$ elsewhere.
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2359
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyneBoxx ➡️
Hi Andy, pardon my ignorance, but how exactly did you get the results above with a sine wave? square, sawtooth, etc?

I fed a 1khz sine wave into various compressors, each with about 10db of reduction and could only get a readout of the 1hkz sine itself. No harmonics generated. Obviously Im doing something wrong, or I just dont understand what Im doing. Any and all help would be appreciated.
Some compressors have a "hold time" so they don't actually start releasing until this time has passed, which makes them more like an automated volume control rather than a true compressor. Using such a compressor will be equivalent to automating the volume fader on your DAW, which will not add any harmonics.
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2360
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by serstickman ➡️
AAX??? Please??? Starting to wish I had spent my $$$ elsewhere.
Please understand that the delay for releasing an AAX version has nothing to do with me supporting the AAX plugin standard itself, I've already done this several years ago. The problem is Avid's decision to make binary signing compulsory, which no other DAW manufacturer on the planet does! It should be up to customers to make this choice not Avid.

In addition Avid have now allowed third party wrappers to load unsigned VST / AU plugins, but still insist that AAX plugins be signed - this is just crazy since my customers can now load The Glue as AU / VST but not as AAX!
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2361
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Please understand that the delay for releasing an AAX version has nothing to do with me supporting the AAX plugin standard itself, I've already done this several years ago. The problem is Avid's decision to make binary signing compulsory, which no other DAW manufacturer on the planet does! It should be up to customers to make this choice not Avid.

In addition Avid have now allowed third party wrappers to load unsigned VST / AU plugins, but still insist that AAX plugins be signed - this is just crazy since my customers can now load The Glue as AU / VST but not as AAX!
Hi Andy

I think we all understand, you've told us how Avid f*cked developers over with their unannounced protection rules since the launch of PT11, over a year ago.

Personally I hate using workarounds and I really miss The Glue because for me it simply is the best SSL comp plugin around.

As I've said before, I would be happy to pay an AAX upgrade fee, a la Massey for certain plugins, and this one is top of the list.

Honestly, please let us know, are you ever going to get AAX done? Your last message sounds like you might not bother anymore.
Old 13th September 2014
  #2362
Gear Guru
 
SWAN808's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
hi Andy I heard your work with the updated Abelton EQ8 and I have to say Id be interested in a cytomic EQ because those were some very smooth filters on EQ8...good to know its coming but I wonder how soon?
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2363
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Please understand that the delay for releasing an AAX version has nothing to do with me supporting the AAX plugin standard itself, I've already done this several years ago. The problem is Avid's decision to make binary signing compulsory, which no other DAW manufacturer on the planet does! It should be up to customers to make this choice not Avid.

In addition Avid have now allowed third party wrappers to load unsigned VST / AU plugins, but still insist that AAX plugins be signed - this is just crazy since my customers can now load The Glue as AU / VST but not as AAX!
Avid almost seems intent on driving customers away. Thanks for the info, Andy.
Old 13th September 2014
  #2364
Lives for gear
 
climber's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Simply charge for the upgrade and move on with it. If it's a case of you need the $$ to get it shipping I don't see the issue.
Old 13th September 2014
  #2365
Lives for gear
 
shatz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yea I would happily pay an upgrade fee to get it rolling. Still one of my favorites for vocals.
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2366
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➡️
Please understand that the delay for releasing an AAX version has nothing to do with me supporting the AAX plugin standard itself, I've already done this several years ago. The problem is Avid's decision to make binary signing compulsory, which no other DAW manufacturer on the planet does! It should be up to customers to make this choice not Avid.
The delay really is due to your choice of copy protection scheme, as you've explained before. Developers who use other methods have released AAX versions of their plugins long ago. You could have used the same methods that work for them but decided to rewrite your system from the ground up instead and here we are.
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2367
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattste ➡️
The delay really is due to your choice of copy protection scheme, as you've explained before. Developers who use other methods have released AAX versions of their plugins long ago. You could have used the same methods that work for them but decided to rewrite your system from the ground up instead and here we are.
yuk! passive aggressive!
Old 13th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2368
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepydog ➡️
yuk! passive aggressive!
Not so passive, I 'd say
Old 14th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2369
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by granville ➡️
Hi Andy

I think we all understand, you've told us how Avid f*cked developers over with their unannounced protection rules since the launch of PT11, over a year ago.

Personally I hate using workarounds and I really miss The Glue because for me it simply is the best SSL comp plugin around.

As I've said before, I would be happy to pay an AAX upgrade fee, a la Massey for certain plugins, and this one is top of the list.

Honestly, please let us know, are you ever going to get AAX done? Your last message sounds like you might not bother anymore.
AAX will get done, I've finished off the new copy protection system to work around the binary signing issue. The actual AAX "wrapper" is already done, it is a matter of first testing out the new copy protection system with The Drop, then updating The Glue to support it as well, then releasing the AAX version. So it is all a matter of months now before a fully working AAX build (ie new copy protection system) is ready.
Old 14th September 2014 | Show parent
  #2370
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattste ➡️
The delay really is due to your choice of copy protection scheme, as you've explained before. Developers who use other methods have released AAX versions of their plugins long ago. You could have used the same methods that work for them but decided to rewrite your system from the ground up instead and here we are.
But the thing is I don't tell Avid what they can / can't do, it isn't my place to meddle with their business, I am not a shareholder or investor or owner. Now if I could please have the same respect shown to me everything would be fine, I am an independent developer that should be able to do whatever I want for my own copy protection system, then everyone would have their AAX version of The Glue already (I finished it before AAX was announced to the public).
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