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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 25th July 2014
  #2311
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heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey jwh1192, this is a xommon issue with Meta(plugin), with patchwork it's all ok.
Old 25th July 2014
  #2312
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
hi EL … thank you .. i am demoing that now … this was simple to setup .. think i will go with the BlueCat … and now i can use the Valhalla Room VST as well …
Old 25th July 2014
  #2313
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heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Patchwork can create incredible strips and also the mix knob is incredible to create parallel processing when you want to load only a few plugs.
Old 25th July 2014
  #2314
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
EL, do you know if it is working with Delay Comp in PT11 for Parallel Processing properly ?? i am about to pull the trigger and thesis my big question, and understand that verbs and delays are not that big a deal with Delay Comp but obviously Parallel is …. just testing Valhalla Room (as this is another plugin that has not gone AAX yet) and it is working great … and sounds very cool ..
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2315
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
EL, do you know if it is working with Delay Comp in PT11 for Parallel Processing properly ?? i am about to pull the trigger and thesis my big question, and understand that verbs and delays are not that big a deal with Delay Comp but obviously Parallel is …. just testing Valhalla Room (as this is another plugin that has not gone AAX yet) and it is working great … and sounds very cool ..
Delay comp works fine with patchworks in PT11 for me.

Also: AAX Progress – ValhallaDSP
Old 25th July 2014
  #2316
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
thx Glen for the Delay Comp info and thx for the AAX update link for Valhalla … I may try out the beta .. have you ?
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2317
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
thx Glen for the Delay Comp info and thx for the AAX update link for Valhalla … I may try out the beta .. have you ?
Only the free FreqEcho, I don't own any other Valhalla but I just had read about the new windows betas. I know the Mac betas have been available since January with no big issues from what I have heard and I use FreqEcho all the time in pt11 Mac.
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2318
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heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
EL, do you know if it is working with Delay Comp in PT11 for Parallel Processing properly ?? i am about to pull the trigger and thesis my big question, and understand that verbs and delays are not that big a deal with Delay Comp but obviously Parallel is …. just testing Valhalla Room (as this is another plugin that has not gone AAX yet) and it is working great … and sounds very cool ..
No problem with Delay Comp here. No experience with Valhalla but Relab is working great.
Old 25th July 2014
  #2319
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
thx guys for the reports … i am going to test some parallel EQ's / Comps this afternoon …
Old 26th July 2014
  #2320
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
bluecat with eventide ultra channel for parallel compression sounds spot on delay comp wise .. thx again guys for the help ..
Old 26th July 2014
  #2321
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
BlueCat .. i did find this though … when you make an adjustment to a plugin (say the ultra channel) the plugin does not update right away visually .. you can hear the change but it visually does not update - like changing an EQ frequency or a compressor setting ..

BUT - the Glue seems to be just fine …
Old 26th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2322
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
BlueCat .. i did find this though … when you make an adjustment to a plugin (say the ultra channel) the plugin does not update right away visually .. you can hear the change but it visually does not update - like changing an EQ frequency or a compressor setting ..

BUT - the Glue seems to be just fine …
Eventide ultra channel does that for me even when using it natively as aax. I doubt if it's patchworks fault.
Old 26th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2323
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heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
BlueCat .. i did find this though … when you make an adjustment to a plugin (say the ultra channel) the plugin does not update right away visually .. you can hear the change but it visually does not update - like changing an EQ frequency or a compressor setting ..

BUT - the Glue seems to be just fine …
This is a problem of your setup, all is fine for me. Are you in pc or mac? If you are on pc ... nvidia or amd graphic card?
Old 26th July 2014
  #2324
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
On a mac. Eventide works just fine AAX in PT11. I thought it was video card as well .. I just had to pick eventide to test - haha. I will try a couple other plugins next week.
Old 26th July 2014
  #2325
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heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Great to hear it's fine. I upgraded my mac pro from nvidia gt120 to amd 5770 for some video editing last year, but after finishing all those video duties I downgraded again to the nvidia gt120 due to some video lag with pro tools.
Old 28th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2326
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Andy,

Are there any updates planned?
The Glue 1.2.9 (10 Sep 2013)
Old 28th July 2014
  #2327
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
this might be off-topic, however, I imagine I might get an answer from the man himself (Andy), as opposed to a separate thread... which seems to have availed nothing.


I was curious about how the Range parameter would be depicted on a transfer curve.

assuming there was one for The Glue... now, I realize that it is the "sound" that is the most important; however, the meticulous part of my mind wonders just exactly how it would be portrayed.

From what I have read, the characteristics of some analog compressors seem to have a point where, once a sound source is loud enough, the compression no longer affects the signal... a characteristic referred to as "overshoot" I believe.

Th Sonalksis SV-15 or whatever number it is, has that, "Crush" parameter which simulates this phenomena if desired...

and the Softube FET also emulates it I think, (among other 1176 emu's etc.)

Is the Range parameter similar?

I am on vacation and therefore cannot compare for sonic differences/similarities; so I figured I'd check the forum.
Old 29th July 2014
  #2328
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
there appears to be great aversion to my inquiry... could be wrong though.
Old 29th July 2014
  #2329
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
"Range" normally means a limit on how much gain reduction a compressor will do.
Old 29th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2330
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➑️
there appears to be great aversion to my inquiry... could be wrong though.
.. don't worry to much, Andy will respond ..
Old 29th July 2014
  #2331
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
awesome!!!


in response to Bob... yeah, I understand that Range decreases or imposes a limit on the amount of allowable gain-reduction; however, I still wonder what that would look like on a transfer-curve.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #2332
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
wondering the same exact thing
Old 15th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2333
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Red Black's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➑️
this might be off-topic, however, I imagine I might get an answer from the man himself (Andy), as opposed to a separate thread... which seems to have availed nothing.


I was curious about how the Range parameter would be depicted on a transfer curve.

assuming there was one for The Glue... now, I realize that it is the "sound" that is the most important; however, the meticulous part of my mind wonders just exactly how it would be portrayed.

From what I have read, the characteristics of some analog compressors seem to have a point where, once a sound source is loud enough, the compression no longer affects the signal... a characteristic referred to as "overshoot" I believe.

Th Sonalksis SV-15 or whatever number it is, has that, "Crush" parameter which simulates this phenomena if desired...

and the Softube FET also emulates it I think, (among other 1176 emu's etc.)

Is the Range parameter similar?

I am on vacation and therefore cannot compare for sonic differences/similarities; so I figured I'd check the forum.
I could well be wrong but this is kinda how I imagine it to look on a transfer curve.

It's probably not that simple though.. and I'm completely ignoring the knee (which I think is ratio dependent):

Old 15th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2334
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by qb748t394 ➑️
this might be off-topic, however, I imagine I might get an answer from the man himself (Andy), as opposed to a separate thread... which seems to have availed nothing.


I was curious about how the Range parameter would be depicted on a transfer curve.

assuming there was one for The Glue... now, I realize that it is the "sound" that is the most important; however, the meticulous part of my mind wonders just exactly how it would be portrayed.

From what I have read, the characteristics of some analog compressors seem to have a point where, once a sound source is loud enough, the compression no longer affects the signal... a characteristic referred to as "overshoot" I believe.

Th Sonalksis SV-15 or whatever number it is, has that, "Crush" parameter which simulates this phenomena if desired...

and the Softube FET also emulates it I think, (among other 1176 emu's etc.)

Is the Range parameter similar?

I am on vacation and therefore cannot compare for sonic differences/similarities; so I figured I'd check the forum.
You can't plot the transfer function statically of The Glue (or most analog compressors) in any meaningful way I know since there are too many things going on to do that. Any static ratio type curve will only let you know what happens if you only feed a fixed level sine wave of a fixed frequency to The Glue, which isn't exactly useful for understanding how things change dynamically, which is what a compressor is all about.

As for the Range knob it limits the maximum peak level of compression applied to the signal. This is kind of like describing a compressor as a device that has an envelope follower that turns down a signal, the technical description doesn't really help you much to tell the difference in sound between an 1176 and a G-Series bus compressor, since they both do the same thing on the surface but sound hugely different.

What is important is how it sounds, so I suggest using it in a real application to get a feel for when it works best and how it behaves. Try using something with a very loud kick drum and listen to the transients and also to the sustain section
Old 15th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2335
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black ➑️
I could well be wrong but this is kinda how I imagine it to look on a transfer curve.

It's probably not that simple though.. and I'm completely ignoring the knee (which I think is ratio dependent):
Yes you are right, it's not that simple If you want to plot the actual ratio shapes then they don't look like this in an analog compressor. Here are the actual ratio shapers in The Glue:



As you can see there are no knees in these shapes, the knee comes about from a completely different mechanism in the compressor. What you see here is a combination of absolute value and change of slope which is applied to the sidechain audio signal. The shaped sidechain signal is then sent to the detector which then applies the attack and release, and this smoothed voltage is then sent to the to the amplifier that controls the amplitude of the sidechain audio signal as well as the main signal, which is where the compression you hear comes from. The threshold actually works by increasing the level of the sidechain signal, so the threshold voltage is added to the detector voltage.

Although this is all interesting from an academic point of view it doesn't really help much to tell you how the compressor sounds!

PS: what you can also see is the the 2:1 ratio starts off steeper and then eases off to 2:1, but this also is not the whole story as the detector changes everything dynamically.
Old 15th August 2014
  #2336
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
yes... I know its all about how it sounds... but still, I wanted to know, as did qb748..

On the Toneboosters compressor, there is a range knob, and upon decreasing it, the transfer curve looks just as Red Black showed... which is also just as qb748 described... but then, you show us your graphs, and they are completely different...

so... I am to assume that, despite the fact that yes, all compressors have different sonic characters, that the Range parameter on the Glue is totally different than what the same parameter does on Tonebooster Compressor?... or is it possible, that the transfer curve on TB's Comp are wrong (just as you said Red Black's was wrong)?.. and all transfer curves by other companies must be wrong then..??.. confusing


Also, when I look at your graphs (Andy's) it appears as if (when moving from left to right) that in the middle there is limiting, and then once you move past that, then... what is that?.. expansion? negative compression?... what?
Old 15th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2337
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black ➑️


looks like Toneboosters Compressor Range parameter effect.
Old 16th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2338
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➑️
yes... I know its all about how it sounds... but still, I wanted to know, as did qb748..

On the Toneboosters compressor, there is a range knob, and upon decreasing it, the transfer curve looks just as Red Black showed... which is also just as qb748 described... but then, you show us your graphs, and they are completely different...

so... I am to assume that, despite the fact that yes, all compressors have different sonic characters, that the Range parameter on the Glue is totally different than what the same parameter does on Tonebooster Compressor?
I can only comment on what The Glue does since I didn't write the other compressor(s) you are talking about. Please don't ask me to comment on what other peoples code is or isn't doing. Also the plots that I show don't include the action of the range knob as that is another part of the circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➑️
... or is it possible, that the transfer curve on TB's Comp are wrong (just as you said Red Black's was wrong)?.. and all transfer curves by other companies must be wrong then..??.. confusing
I didn't say that any of the transfer curves were "wrong", I just said they don't show you what the actual ratio shapes. What they do show you is how much compression is applied to an constant amplitude fixed frequency sine wave (they usually use around 1khz for such plots), but this doesn't give you the full picture, which is very different from saying they are wrong. Typically this will ignore frequency dependant effects, and also time varying effects, so basically they ignore a lot of what music is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penumbra ➑️
Also, when I look at your graphs (Andy's) it appears as if (when moving from left to right) that in the middle there is limiting, and then once you move past that, then... what is that?.. expansion? negative compression?... what?
Please re-read my original post for insight into what the curves are, these are not plots of the amount of compression that occurs for a given fixed amplitude, fixed frequency sine wave input, these are the circuits waveshapers to make the ratio happen, so these are the most accurate picture of the ratio curves alone. The previous plot shows the actual action of the circuit, but you need to understand this in relation to the rest of the circuit as well. It is the negative absolute value. If you want to make the plots even more similar to a regular input output ratio plot then ignore the negative x values and rotate the plot by 90 deg. A ratio of 1:1 is a vertical line on the plot below, so any slope up and to the right is more than no compression, the more horizontal the stepper the ratio, so that completely horizontal is infinite ratio. This will probably still not make you happy as it's not the a traditional plot that you are used to, it just happens to be the actual shape used to make the ratio happen:



Please keep in mind that the only technical thing you need to know about a compressor is that is reduces the volume of loud signals, the rest is down to the tone of individual compressors. The only technical thing you need to know about the Range knob is that it limits the peak compression applied to the signal, the rest is down to the tone of its behaviour, and that needs your ears.
Old 16th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2339
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by erol ➑️
Hi Andy,

Are there any updates planned?
The Glue 1.2.9 (10 Sep 2013)
Oh yes! I have a new framework completed that supports smoothly scalable user interfaces with anti-aliased OS rendered fonts for crisp text at all resolutions. I will also add a knob to adjust the detector between linked and dual mono. The will hopefully be a few more additions, but I need to have them completed before I can make any announcements. There will also be an AAX and VST3 version of The Glue released as a free update.
Old 16th August 2014 | Show parent
  #2340
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Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
Oh yes! I have a new framework completed that supports smoothly scalable user interfaces with anti-aliased OS rendered fonts for crisp text at all resolutions. I will also add a knob to adjust the detector between linked and dual mono. The will hopefully be a few more additions, but I need to have them completed before I can make any announcements. There will also be an AAX and VST3 version of The Glue released as a free update.
not to mention the section that tells you what oversampling setting you are using without drilling into the GUI, like The Drop has
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