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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 23rd July 2014
  #2281
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
NMS, "If I was in your shoes I'm sure I would have thought this would be sorted long ago though" … i still have PT10 running .. i do the same thing as you and leapfrog my systems … i go back and forth from PT10 to PT11 all the time to use The Glue / but i do not use it as much as I did as PT11 has a great feel to it on my system and works better for Me … The Glue is my Last PLugin that I need to have done for my system to be completely PT11 .. I have waited on The Drop as it is not ready to go yet .. I am looking forward to purchasing The Drop once it is PT11 compatible ..

I love Andy's work .. and he is always there to answer questions … I wish there was something I could do to help him along with what Avid has done to turn his world upside-down …

sounds like we agree … like i have stated I am Patiently waiting … and using other tools in PT11 until the time comes ..

cheers john
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2282
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➑️
$15. I've emailed Andy a ton though and it's taking forever, so I don't recommend it.
Hi Nate,

Sorry for the typo in the email I sent you where I said to send the money via paypal to "[email protected]". In future I will say "to the email address I'm contacting you from" to avoid typos. On top of that a security certificate expired so I never got your emails until just recently. So from my point of view I could see no payments for a license transfer in PayPal and got no emails about it so there wasn't anything for me to do, nothing malicious or deliberate, just a couple of unfortunate coincidences. It is all sorted out now.
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2283
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified ➑️
Is this plugin ever going to be AAX-PT11 compatible? It's been over a year since PT11 was released and still nothing. Sort of ridiculous from a customer support standpoint. Might as well sell it - it isn't the only compressor in the game.
I've had AAX supported since it was first announced. I spent 3 months doing a Native and a DSP version of The Glue which I completed in time for the AAX trade show launch and was demoed on the Avid booth. Just before the trade show Avid told me they would require each plugin to be signed by a tool made by Pace (for a yearly charge), which would mean I couldn't release the plugin to the public. Great huh? I pleaded with them to not do this, but they did it. So 3 months of development down the drain, and now another 3 months was required for me to work around this problem by writing my entire copy protection system again from scratch to not need digital watermarking.

This is because my digital watermarking system, which is done on my server on each download, would break the signing, so I would need to sign the plugin after it was watermarked on my server. I contacted Pace asking them for a copy of their signing tool that would work on my server, and they would not give me one. This is a command line tool that should be easy enough to compile on linux. Double great huh?

So then I gave up for a bit since people could run RTAS plugins anyway. I got on with work on The Drop, which is a mammoth R&D project which I only know in hindsight.

At the end of last year and start of this year, since The Drop was taking a long time to finish, I thought I would try spend a few months to re-code my copy protection system. I got it working pretty well so in late Jan I emailed Avid and said I was ready to get AAX rolling again, downloaded the latest SDK and contacted Pace for the signing tool to make sure it would all work. Pace wanted payment for their signing tool, and it has now been around 3 years since I've released a new product and I've spend 5 months of unpaid development time on "AAX" alone, so I just didn't have the budget to pay them.

So I needed to finish off The Drop to be able to afford to pay Pace for the signing tool I don't even want to use. So that is what I have been doing. 5 months of unpaid work just to get an AAX build done for my customers, and only now just about to finish The Drop to generate some extra income needed to so I can finish the job with by doing another month of unpaid work.

So, like I said, after The Drop is finished I will release an AAX build of The Glue and The Drop that uses the new copy protection system that works around the signing problem caused by Avid / Pace.

I could possibly generate income by charging customers for the AAX version and taking pre-orders, but that is a pretty horrible thing to do, much better just to finish The Drop and make the AAX stuff a free (for my customers) update. It just happened that The Drop was an insanely difficult plugin to finish, but also includes the best work I've ever done, so it has taken ages, hence no Drop and no AAX at the moment.

The Glue works just fine still in PT10 as an RTAS plugin, if you want to get on with work please stop complaining (to me about it - feel free to complain to Avid!), just use PT10, or one of the wrappers that can load VST / Au into PT11. I still use the now ancient XCode 3 to support my customers and don't complain about it, since I can get work done even though it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the latest versions of XCode.
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2284
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I feel for you Andy. This whole Avid/Pace thing sounds like a nightmare. As if supporting all the different plugin formats wasn't enough of a nightmare already?!

Keep up the good work.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #2285
nms
Lives for gear
 
nms's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
That kind of dedication to quality is why I have absolutely no shame in my endless Cytomic praise.

Brilliant work often comes from those who obsess over details and take things "too far". If you're not flirting with the edge of insanity you're playing it too safe

If more developers were this dedicated maybe I wouldn't have to spend so much money on hardware.
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2286
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
And I thought Valhalla were having the shi*ttiest time with Pace...
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2287
Deleted e1b9f94
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by FubarSnafu ➑️
And I thought Valhalla were having the shi*ttiest time with Pace...
Everyone is having shi*ttiest time with Pace it's just that most of the devs are kinda good guys and don't want to talk about it in public unless specifically asked. Andy is one of the mentioned gentleman but i can assure you i know for at least three other kinda well known developers having hard time with Pace nonsense..
Old 23rd July 2014
  #2288
Lives for gear
 
heraldo_jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I really love Pro Tools, but all of those Avid/Pace senseless things are really more an obstacle than a help for the developers.
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #2289
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-cytomic ➑️
I could possibly generate income by charging customers for the AAX version and taking pre-orders, but that is a pretty horrible thing to do, much better just to finish The Drop and make the AAX stuff a free (for my customers) update.
We all understand the differences between the mega-developers and boutique shops such as yours, so I think I can speak for many here who would gladly pay a small fee to speed this process up. You have a lot of fans who are using and loving The Glue for what it does, not just because it was a bargain in the first place.
Old 24th July 2014
  #2290
Lives for gear
 
jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Response from Andy in regards to Thermos' transfer to me:

'Yes, he said he did but I didn't get that email until just the other
day. I also didn't get any payments listed in PayPal because the
amount was sent to the wrong email address. I don't have a crystal
ball either.'

Top-notch customer support there...
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2291
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO ➑️
I really love Pro Tools, but all of those Avid/Pace senseless things are really more an obstacle than a help for the developers.
Really? Is that why AAX plugins haven't been cracked?

Andy - I appreciate the explanation. It makes perfect sense to me and it would've helped to hear it months ago. In fact, as somebody else suggested, maybe your loyal customer base would've opted to pay a small upgrade fee for The Glue to help finance the work. Looking forward to your future projects. Best of luck.
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2292
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
Response from Andy in regards to Thermos' transfer to me:

'Yes, he said he did but I didn't get that email until just the other
day. I also didn't get any payments listed in PayPal because the
amount was sent to the wrong email address. I don't have a crystal
ball either.'

Top-notch customer support there...
Here is the full transcript:

Quote:
On 20 July 2014 09:30, Joel Hager wrote:
Hi Andy, I was just checking on the status of my transfer of The Glue that was
supposed to happen 2 weeks ago. My demos have since run out, and I
have them in use on my sessions. Please advise. Thanks!
Then I got my email working again--

Quote:
On Jul 22, 2014 3:29 AM, "Cytomic Support" wrote:
Hi Joel, Sorry about the slow transfer, I never received the license transfer fee of USD 15 from the person you are buying off, and in addition my email went down. Hopefully we can sort this out quickly now. All the best, Andrew Simper
Quote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:24 PM wrote:
Hi Joel, The seller has shown me proof that he did try to send the license
transfer fee, but typed the email address incorrectly so I never got
the money. It is all sorted now, and the license transfer is complete.
Here is the link to your accounts download page: <download link>
Sorry for the delay! All the best, Andrew Simper
Quote:
On 23 July 2014 13:41, Joel Hager <[email protected]> wrote:
Perfect! Thanks for getting it sorted out. Also, do you have a beta for the
AAX version? I'd *really* like to use it without BlueCat Patchwork. Thanks!

So everything was sorted at this stage, but then I got the following email from him. Perhaps Joel then read the forum here and found out about the AAX situation, Joel can you help out here?


Quote:
On 23 July 2014 18:19, Joel Hager wrote:
He said he did. A while ago, actually.
Quote:
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 5:32 AM, Cytomic Support wrote:
Yes, he said he did but I didn't get that email until just the other
day. I also didn't get any payments listed in PayPal because the
amount was sent to the wrong email address. I don't have a crystal
ball either. All the best, Andrew Simper
----

I think Joel is frustrated with the AAX situation, as well as his license transfer taking a long time just when his trial version ran out. He had been very patient and waited two weeks for the transfer. Unfortunately I failed to receive emails for several weeks due to a security certificate having expired without my knowledge. I also made a typo in an email to the seller saying just before my email stopped working to say send money to "[email protected]" which was copied and pasted into PayPal, I received no notification at all that anything was to be done with regards the license transfer, no email, nothing I could see in my PayPal logs of a USD 15 payment being made. As soon as I got email working again I did the license transfer immediately, waived the fee and appologised for it taking so long. So there you have it, everything in context now. Sorry for spamming the thread with this, but if my emails are taken out of context and posted here I feel the need to show what the context is.
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2293
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer ➑️
I feel for you Andy. This whole Avid/Pace thing sounds like a nightmare. As if supporting all the different plugin formats wasn't enough of a nightmare already?!

Keep up the good work.
Thanks!

The whole situation seems totally arbitrary to me, I am totally puzzled by the whole binary signing thing. There are two different wrapper AAX plugins which allow completely unsigned VST / AU plugins to be loaded into ProTools, but then they insist that AAX plugins themselves be signed. I can't work it out at all, I've asked Avid and will let you know what they say in reply. It wasn't until the fairly recent posts to this thread I was even aware these wrapper plugins existed, so thanks to those people that helped out with the links
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2294
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified ➑️
Really? Is that why AAX plugins haven't been cracked?
The binary signing by the Pace tool allows ProTools to check if a plugin has been altered. Since ProTools uses full iLok 2 protection then it is hard for a hacker to bypass the checking of this signature, since ProTools is protected itself.

If this signing can be faked then ProTools won't know if the plugin has been altered or not, so it is possible for AAX plugins to be cracked. This sort of scheme sounds like a great thing to have as "opt-in" or "opt-out" for developers, but it is currently compulsory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified ➑️
Andy - I appreciate the explanation. It makes perfect sense to me and it would've helped to hear it months ago. In fact, as somebody else suggested, maybe your loyal customer base would've opted to pay a small upgrade fee for The Glue to help finance the work. Looking forward to your future projects. Best of luck.
Thanks for the good wishes!
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2295
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted e1b9f94 ➑️
Everyone is having shi*ttiest time with Pace it's just that most of the devs are kinda good guys and don't want to talk about it in public unless specifically asked. Andy is one of the mentioned gentleman but i can assure you i know for at least three other kinda well known developers having hard time with Pace nonsense..
Thankyou. I really would prefer just to get on with it. I am not happy with how long I have taken to get things done, but I am very pleased with the results. I am really looking forward to having the new copy protection system in place, since it has taken quite a bit of work. My old watermarking system seemed like a good idea at the time and I have been able to track every crack ever done back to the source, and then have them knocked out and turned into trial version with updates, but it doesn't play nice with any signing tools, not the mac one gatekeeper, not the windows one, and not the pace one. Time to move on. The new system will also support immediate license transfers, instead of the annoying 6 month delay of the current one.

Last edited by andy-cytomic; 24th July 2014 at 10:34 AM.. Reason: corrected typo
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2296
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FubarSnafu ➑️
And I thought Valhalla were having the shi*ttiest time with Pace...
I didn't realise Sean was having some issues, thanks for letting me know. We both use the Juce framework so help each other out a bit, I'll get in contact with him and see how he's going.
Old 24th July 2014
  #2297
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
FYI - Valhalla plugins are working great in PT11. Maybe he can help out with what he used.
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2298
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified ➑️
FYI - Valhalla plugins are working great in PT11. Maybe he can help out with what he used.
I already have working AAX plugins, I have supported it since day 1. I can sign them on my system and load them and run them in ProTools 11 Just fine. Please read my previous post as to why my current copy protection system needs to be completely re-written to support signing by Pace tools.

PS: post 2283 of this thread explains the situation, here is a link https://gearspace.com/board/10281535-post2283.html
Old 24th July 2014
  #2299
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
hi andy, i wish you would have asked for a price increase for your products … say even 125.00 or 150.00 instead of 99.00 and an upgrade fee of 25-50.00 dollars for current users (just tossing out numbers here) .. what would it take to make this work for You so We can Get Back to Work as you say in PT11 … send us loyal customers an email and we will support you .. it is not too late to do this and if we got a petition going you would probably see you have a lot more support for this than you may think … LEt US Help You, Please

So, what you folks say about helping Andy out ??? Come On you Slutz

PACE are the NEw Pirates of the 7 Continents … maybe not too many in Antarctica … but as you say, hard to crack and that is good ..

in the meantime I am going to look at the Wrapper as well … "I Need my Glue Bro" - just a thought for a T-Shirt

cheers and Sticky Stuff called Glue - john
Old 24th July 2014
  #2300
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I am not finding any wrappers to run the Glue with, that are not another program, i.e.: Reaper, Pogue Bidule, … can someone point me in the right direction ? and I would rather give my money to Andy than buy another product .. just saying'
Old 24th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2301
nms
Lives for gear
 
nms's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
hi andy, i wish you would have asked for a price increase for your products … say even 125.00 or 150.00 instead of 99.00 and an upgrade fee of 25-50.00 dollars for current users
I agree here. Even a small increase seems suitable. I would price the V1.0 release version of the Drop at $125 and the Glue at $125 once the planned update to that is done, then make it $225 or at the very least $200 for people who buy both. It's a bit mad for anyone to be paying less than $100 for The Drop. A little extra revenue makes it easier to facilitate all the extra time spent on updates.

I've always thought it was brilliant that for the small initial purchase price I paid ages ago I get years of one of the best developers in the world slaving over my plugins to keep them current & improving with free updates! The more we can grease that process, the better off we all are.

I'm REALLY looking forward to the next Glue feature update with the variable stereo linking on the detector. I think it's in everyone's best interest to have you adequately funded to work constantly, or at least as much as you have time for
Old 24th July 2014
  #2302
Lives for gear
 
login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Well Andy,

I loved your work on Live eq8, hope you continue working with Ableton and bring the drop, as the glue, to Live. Live's autofilter is quite old and miles behind The drop.
Old 24th July 2014
  #2303
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
NMS, thats 2 of us … anyone else ?
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2304
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
I am not finding any wrappers to run the Glue with, that are not another program, i.e.: Reaper, Pogue Bidule, … can someone point me in the right direction ? and I would rather give my money to Andy than buy another product .. just saying'
This post may help:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO ➑️
With a wrapper like DDMF Metaplugin or Blue Cats Patchwork you can use it in PT11 (no issues here). But will be great to have it in native AAX 64bits.
Here are the links to what EL_HERALDO posted about:

Blue Cat Audio Patchwork Blue Cat's PatchWork - Fully Configurable Plug-Ins Chainer

DDMF Metaplugin DDMF: VST plugins, AU plugins, AAX plugins, AAX wrapper, RTAS plugins, audio software

All wrappers are in a sense "another program" that hosts the plugin. SugarBytes wrote a conventional wrapper that created new entries in the plugin load menu, but Avid forced them to remove the product from sale.

Here is ProToolers article on the situation with SugarBytes: Sugar Bytes TransVST Removed From

from which this quote is taken:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid
They want people to get on board and if people start using plugins that aren’t approved, through a wrapper that’s not functioning properly – and that’s key – there will be issues and it will not look good.
So the problem is that Avid think it "won't look good" for their customers, but then go ahead and green light two other products with could also possibly crash ProTools by effectively wrapping VST / AU plugins! And then there are the AAX plugins that already have bugs and cause problems, so the whole thing seems to not even come close to holding water.

The only difference between a wrapper and these other wrapping plugins is where the plugin appears in the "add plugin" menu, the wrapping plugins only appear once, and then you have to use a preset inside the plugin itself to load the plugin chain you want. The straight up wrapper appears once per plugin that is wrapped, and I think this is the key point here, Avid know that customers want that convenience, and I think they want to control that, and possibly take a percentage of sales, for plugins that do this. It has nothing to do with stability or risk to customers projects, or any other customer related reason that I can possibly think of since they already allow these other wrappers.

Another link on the subject Sugar Bytes TransVST Removed From

Of which I think this comment sums it up pretty well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasMilk
HAHA "to ensure a quality experience." Really? Because I'm pretty sure I haven't had a quality experience with FXpansion's wrapper for quite some time now. Typical Avid BS, they can't even be honest as to why they really wont allow this. At least if they said, "we cock blocked this because we want a piece of the licensing action," I would give them points for being honest.
PS: I don't even think it is actually licensing payments that Avid really want from someone like SugarBytes, I think it is more likely something to do with companies like UAD and TC and SSL making DSP hardware that Avid don't want to allow a backdoor into ProTools which could possibly compete with sales of their own DSP hardware boards. So it is most likely they want a cut of UAD / TC / SSL, not a small outfit like SugarBytes.
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2305
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
NMS, thats 2 of us … anyone else ?
Thanks very much for the kind offer! At this stage it won't help much speed anything up. I've already finished all the product specific work on The Drop, so the rest of the work is directly to do with finishing and testing the new copy protection system. I want to roll this new copy protection system out for The Drop, and then The Glue to make sure it is working well, then I'll involve Pace in the equation and roll it out with the AAX release. One step at a time.
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2306
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 ➑️
I am not finding any wrappers to run the Glue with, that are not another program, i.e.: Reaper, Pogue Bidule, … can someone point me in the right direction ? and I would rather give my money to Andy than buy another product .. just saying'
I've been running The Glue in Bluecat Patchwork for quite sometime now and it works just perfectly.
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2307
Lives for gear
 
jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just for clarification -- I sent the 'he did. A while ago actually' comment before my 'thanks' email. I believe quite a bit before, actually.

Maybe your email client delivered one prior to the other?
Old 25th July 2014 | Show parent
  #2308
Gear Nut
 
MacroMike's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'll gladly pay for the upgrade and DSP version. The Glue is a fantastic plugin and Avid should have offered to help you for your support of HDX. Besides the lack of a bug free version of Protools 11 the lack of AAX DSP plugins is the biggest complaint of HDX users.
Old 25th July 2014
  #2309
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
thx for the links .. i will look at these wrappers .. cheers john
Old 25th July 2014
  #2310
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
just demoing DDMF wrapper … it works .. a little clunky as it puts your plugin on TOP where your transport controls do not work unless you click outside the plugin but I think this will get me by until AAX comes online … thank you for the link(s) … cheers john
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