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Cytomic "The Glue" Bus Compressor Effect Plugin
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #421
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2 Reviews written
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi ➑️
Thanks again Brother!
Any time mate.
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #422
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
The Glue applies exactly the same amount of gain reduction (and makeup) to the left and right signal preserving the stereo image exactly. What you will hear from such compression, depending on settings, is:

a) an enhanced "thwack" sound on attacks which could be perceived as a brighter and more "stereo" signal, and

b) the increased volume of reverb and other ambient sounds in your recording from makeup gain.

There may be some other effects going on but I think these would be the main two.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #423
TZk
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🎧 15 years
Isn't the original SSL compressor bus actually 2 mono compressors , one for each side ?
or is it a linked stereo compressor type ?

Settings are linked but compressor working is mono for L and mono for R ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_cytomic ➑️
The Glue applies exactly the same amount of gain reduction (and makeup) to the left and right signal preserving the stereo image exactly. What you will hear from such compression, depending on settings, is:

a) an enhanced "thwack" sound on attacks which could be perceived as a brighter and more "stereo" signal, and

b) the increased volume of reverb and other ambient sounds in your recording from makeup gain.

There may be some other effects going on but I think these would be the main two.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #424
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolet ➑️
I haven't got much experience with master bus compression, but
I tried out the Glue on some stuff I'm working on and am I correct that it does all kinds of (nice) things to the stereo image? Somehow the sides of the mix sound clearer and more defined? Am I imagining stuff???
The real SSL does this which is why I'll use it in auto mode with very little gain reduction.

Just that sound.
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #425
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
I'm not sure which version the "original" is, but if you can point me towards a schematic I can let you know what that version does easily. The latest gear from SSL, the XLogic et al, uses two ratio shaper and amp circuits which then drive into two attack diodes, but then get summed down to mono for the rest of the envelope detector. This is an "analog" way of calculating the "max" of two signals, but its way more complicated than simply doing a trivial if (a>b) type thing.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #426
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➑️
The real SSL does this which is why I'll use it in auto mode with very little gain reduction.

Just that sound.
From doing a model and matching the needle behaviour to that of the physical unit and I let you know what even when the needle barely moves the compressor can still be doing quite a bit to transients. With these transients shaped in a nice sounding way you will increase peak room available. Your best be to see what is going on is to look at the waveforms pre and post compressor side by side.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #427
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When I say "original", I mean the G384.

Never tried the XLogic stuff.
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➑️
The real SSL does this which is why I'll use it in auto mode with very little gain reduction.

Just that sound.
Ok, cool. That sounds pretty much like what I was doing with the plugin. Release on auto mode...needle showing some 2-3db reduction. Definitely noticable (in a good way) on a master buss.
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #429
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➑️
When I say "original", I mean the G384.

Never tried the XLogic stuff.
Is there a schematic for the G384 anywhere online? If there is I can tell you exactly what it's doing.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #430
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🎧 15 years
Andy ,

And others....

AFAIK

The G384 is the rack mount version of the 4000 buss comp.

The Gyraf model of the 4000 modifies the Sidechain circuit to a summed mono one as found in the Glue and is based on the E series.

The original 384 and desk versions had independant L/R gain control.

The newer Xlogic range has a newer spec VCA with 'improved' hi end response.

There are obviously other subtle differences between exact models. But the purpose of this discussion should answer the question.

Gareth
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #431
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Gareth,

Thanks for the post. FYI the Glue doesn't sum to mono. The Glue is not the same as the Gyraf circuit, I have used the SSL 4000 schematics as well to double check things. The Glue has dual sidechain amps and dual ratio shapers, but has a linked envelope follower post diodes. This is similar to but not quite the same as taking the "max" of each of the sidechain signals as the source for the envelope follower.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #432
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Absolute's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolet ➑️
I haven't got much experience with master bus compression, but
I tried out the Glue on some stuff I'm working on and am I correct that it does all kinds of (nice) things to the stereo image? Somehow the sides of the mix sound clearer and more defined? Am I imagining stuff???

Bus compression, in more cases that not, makes the imaging worse--not better. That doesnt mean it ruins it though. The trick is to use it near the beginning of the mix so the movement your creating from left to right doesnt disappear when the compressor levels things out. An example would be--If you have a slight autopan on one side(not stereo autopan) to create left to right movement--and then engage a slammin B compression your gonna loose movement as it attempts to undo your volume changes. (Autopan in this case is to reduce volume intermittently on one side creating creating movement from a doubled part on the other side)

In my experience, anything that is not intended to create wider stereo separation-- but does
has unequal input or outputs. Of course this would mean hardware not plugins. When outputs are off a bit, the sides will come out slighty different than you started with.
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #433
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute ➑️
Bus compression, in more cases that not, makes the imaging worse--not better.
This is only true of dual mono compressors. Linked compressors like The Glue preserve the stereo image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute ➑️
In my experience, anything that is not intended to create wider stereo separation-- but does
has unequal input or outputs.
Sometimes the stereo image has not changed at all but the perceived "stereoness" to the listener is increased due to the effects I mentioned earlier.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #434
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
@Absolute: of course it's still a good idea to mix through the comp if you are going to use one so that you can get your levels right.

Andrew Simper
Old 27th April 2009 | Show parent
  #435
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🎧 15 years
woops.

my bad!



G
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #436
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So can the RTAS version be used in "Multi-Mono" and "MultiChannel" or just "MultiChannel"?
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #437
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➑️
So can the RTAS version be used in "Multi-Mono" and "MultiChannel" or just "MultiChannel"?
I'm not sure what you mean by this termonology. Is this how Protools terms it's channel configs?

The Glue will work as mono in mono out or stereo in stereo out, both of which will have an external side-chain of the same format as the input. The compression applied is as I have described previously, ie the same control signal driving all amps.

Andrew Simper
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #438
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfx ➑️
Andy ,
The original 384 and desk versions had independant L/R gain control.
Hi Gareth,

Do you have a link to any schematics showing this? The only ones I can find leave out pages, so all that is left is a single mono compressor. I have emailed Paul Frindel about it as well just to double check.

Andrew Simper
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #439
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_cytomic ➑️
I'm not sure what you mean by this termonology. Is this how Protools terms it's channel configs?

The Glue will work as mono in mono out or stereo in stereo out, both of which will have an external side-chain of the same format as the input. The compression applied is as I have described previously, ie the same control signal driving all amps.

Andrew Simper
The terminology is from Pro Tools. When you choose a plug in on the master fader you have the choice of "Multi-Mono" or "MultiChannel". Maybe it's me who doesn't understand the terminology.heh
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #440
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➑️
The terminology is from Pro Tools. When you choose a plug in on the master fader you have the choice of "Multi-Mono" or "MultiChannel". Maybe it's me who doesn't understand the terminology.heh
I will be able to answer your question once I have done the Rtas version, which will be by 8th May.

Andrew Simper
Old 28th April 2009 | Show parent
  #441
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst ➑️
The terminology is from Pro Tools. When you choose a plug in on the master fader you have the choice of "Multi-Mono" or "MultiChannel". Maybe it's me who doesn't understand the terminology.heh
No, it is not you. The terminology is one of the dumbest things about Pro Tools.

- c
Old 29th April 2009 | Show parent
  #442
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➑️
No, it is not you. The terminology is one of the dumbest things about Pro Tools.
I don't know, I've always found it pretty self-explanatory. It's either dual mono or linked stereo. On a stereo channel/bus that is. Dual mono is just like two independant mono compressors (in this case).

On the other hand, and as per previous posts here, not sure in linked stereo mode where the detection is taken from or how it works. Left only? Summed?

B
Old 29th April 2009 | Show parent
  #443
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bing81 ➑️
I don't know, I've always found it pretty self-explanatory. It's either dual mono or linked stereo. On a stereo channel/bus that is. Dual mono is just like two independant mono compressors (in this case).

On the other hand, and as per previous posts here, not sure in linked stereo mode where the detection is taken from or how it works. Left only? Summed?

B
Yes, but Dual Mono or Linked Stereo are terms we all understand.

They should use those terms.

The terms they use are stupid and cause confusion.

- c
Old 29th April 2009 | Show parent
  #444
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➑️
Yes, but Dual Mono or Linked Stereo are terms we all understand.

They should use those terms.

The terms they use are stupid and cause confusion.

- c
The reason they use the term "Multichannel" instead of stereo, is that ProTools works in surround as well, where the term "Stereo" would be plain wrong. When you use plugins in stereo, you can also opt to deselect the LR link, to get independent control of left and right channels... It is not confusing, just flexible. :-)
Old 29th April 2009 | Show parent
  #445
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just hope their is a "Dual Mono" version when it comes out. I like running my 2 bus comp that way.
Old 30th April 2009 | Show parent
  #446
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_cytomic ➑️
Hi Gareth,

Do you have a link to any schematics showing this? The only ones I can find leave out pages, so all that is left is a single mono compressor. I have emailed Paul Frindel about it as well just to double check.

Andrew Simper
Did Paul ever get back to you?

P.S.
Payment Sent
Lookin' forward to the RTAS release!!!
Old 30th April 2009 | Show parent
  #447
Cytomic
 
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi ➑️
Did Paul ever get back to you?

P.S.
Payment Sent
Lookin' forward to the RTAS release!!!
Yes, he said he didn't design the compressor part of the console and couldn't remember the details for what it was doing. He guessed it was linked in the same way I have done with The Glue, which would make sense to me since otherwise you would lose your stereo image. I will reserve comment until I have seen the full schematics.

Andrew Simper
Old 1st May 2009 | Show parent
  #448
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks Andy!
Can I authorize 2 of MY computers for the Glue plug?
And what's the time before I receive a license... bout 24 hours?

Thanks again!
Old 1st May 2009 | Show parent
  #449
Cytomic
 
andy-cytomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi ➑️
Thanks Andy!
Can I authorize 2 of MY computers for the Glue plug?
And what's the time before I receive a license... bout 24 hours?

Thanks again!
The license agreement is located on a link from this page: Cytomic: The Glue Beta Info . For a quick rundown The Glue comes with your serial number and name encoded into the binary so it will run on any machine you install it on, and you are allowed to use it on up to two machines at once if they are used for a single composition. An example usage would be a dj setup with two laptops, or a second computer being used synced up to the first to expand your computing power.

Andrew Simper
Old 1st May 2009 | Show parent
  #450
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🎧 10 years
Thanks very much Andy! How long do I usually have to wait to receive a license after purchasing... bout 24 hours?

Thanks!
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