Quantcast
MOTU BPM is a TOTAL | NO GO | on PT 8 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
MOTU BPM is a TOTAL | NO GO | on PT 8
Old 6th February 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up MOTU BPM is a ** GO ** on PT 8

******************* F I X E D, please read my last ENTRY ************************


Hi, I have posted this on DUC as well.

I am furious as furious could ever be.

Bought BPM today,which is working VERY nice in the standalone version.

In Pro Tools THIS is a total different situation.

1) When instantiating the Plug-In - it takes about 60 seconds to do so.

2) EVERY time I click the plug to toggle it open, I cannot use ANY of it's controls. UNTIL, I toggle the INPUT of the Instrument track. Thought that HAD been fixed with PT8?????

3) If I hit PLAY on BPM and then hit play and stop on the PT transport, the SWOD appears indefinitely and I have to force quit PT

4) If I save while BMP is in it's own play mode, you guessed it, the SWOD appears, and I have to force quit PT.

5) ALL graphics WILL stop responding every 60 seconds while BPM plays. Fader lights etc. Everything. And I cannot touch ANY controls.

6) Hit play on BPM and try to add in input or toggle it. You guessed it / BPM HANGS protools

Like I said, the standalone application works OK. This far.

In Logic 8 - you can ONLY have multiple outs if you use Stereo. That makes NO sense at all. Who would wanna have a mono kick wasted on a stereo output. I cant believe that they did not allow for mono outs in Logic. not even with panning.

However, in L8, BPM opens in 2 seconds which is a whopping 58 seconds faster than on PT RTAS. Which I dont have the feeling has gotten ANY better with PT8

MOTU BPM is a disaster zone. And I urge you NOT to be a as dumb as me and buy this thing. At least before they acknowledge that they have a problem bigger than than the alleged Global Warming. And put out an update.

I think MOTU's Cheese slipped off their Cracker.


One POSITIVE comment. The sounds are GREAT and the Interface is VERY easy to use.


PS | I am on a harpertown 8 core mac with full RAM and 4 TB hard drives.

Last edited by 25ghosts; 10th February 2009 at 05:31 PM.. Reason: Symptoms have been found and cured
Old 6th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Now I am even more furious.

I thought I'd give MOTU tech support a call and have a chat with them.

This is what happened:

As the person heard it was about PT 8 and BUGs he went off line for 3 and a half minutes. Then he came back and thanked me for waiting. Then he asked me if I could try using BPM in Protools 7, instead.

Because - and I quote now:

Quote:
Pro Tools 8 is still such a new program and DIGIDESIGN is trying to even out THEIR BUGS
I told him. Since X-Mass I have had PT 8 running more or less, non-stop. I have had 3 unexpected quits in that time.
After trying BPM for 20 minutes I had 8 crashes.

Then he went silent. I then told him about the 6 points, which I have referred to in this here thread, on how to HANG Protools 8.
Then he went offline for about 7 minutes and then came back and asked if I had used it in Logic. That really helped.

I asked him if they actually had BETA testers, testing BPM in PT 8 and he replied, that they have thoroughly tested BPM in PT7 and PT8 and that they had NEVER experienced those problems.

I then told him, that the problems here, are reproducible on 4 different computers, 2 HD's and 2 LE's both PT 8. And that I called my dealer and that he could reproduce this as well on the setup in their store

He then started to repeat him self, over and over again. And asked me to enter their support ways and start writing about the BPM experiences.

I asked him, to connect me with someone in charge of BETA testing, and told him that I, if having been a BETA tester, could have given MOTU, 8 different ways of crashing Pro Tools, in ONE email after using the plug-in for ONLY 20 minutes.

He told me that he could NOT give me access to such a person.

Then I told him that I am 100% sure that they HAVE indeed NOT ONE SINGLE BETA tester for PT because even a Pro Tools novice, would have seen these BUGS - immediately.


Then I called MOTU Customer Services.

I told the woman, on the line that I would like to speak to someone, in charge of making this product as I would like to enroll as a BETA tester for BPM, so that those BUGS could be eliminated ASAP. She asked me to call, Tech Support.

I told her that I had already done so and that I would love to speak to someone else. She said, "If you wanna be a BETA tester you will have to supply your information of experience and if THEY feel that you are competent, they will set up an interview with you".... I could not help but start laughing. I mean, seriously, if the "phantom" BETA testers of BPM would have had ANY experience at all, they would have seen those flaws immediately.

I plead her to put me through to someone else. She said that it was not possible. I told her that I was only trying to help and that it would be a whole lot faster if she would just put me through. She declined again. Then I told her that I feel very much cheated when someone is releasing a software, which according to package and web site, is PT compatible and it is not. And that I would contemplate having my lawyer write them a letter.

She then began the usual proletarian yadda yadda about ME threatening her and MOTO. And that this conversation was recorded. Then she told me that she had another call on the other line, and that she would now be hanging up. And that is exactly what she did.

Nice sounding or not - I am going to return this malfunctioning software to my dealer today. I have already arranged for that. Funny thing was, as I called him he said "You are the second one calling about getting his money back today. And we only got the package in yesterday, this has gotta be a new record"

I am done with MOTU - even if they make a plug called "Guaranteed Hit" I would not touch it with a pair of pipe pliers.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Post

Woah, that's really sad to read =(.

What a crappy attitude from MOTU.

I hope they get back to you to apologize and recognize their are some bugs to fix !
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Wow, that's crazy, does it crash Logic 8 as much (or at all)? Was just getting ready to purchase it also, mainly for logic 8 (and Sonar on Windows).
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi-tech ➑️
Wow, that's crazy, does it crash Logic 8 as much (or at all)? Was just getting ready to purchase it also, mainly for logic 8 (and Sonar on Windows).
Was planning to use it on PC VST too.

By the way an advice I can tell you, is to contact UltimateSoundBank, which is the developer of the core engine used in MOTU BPM (UVI engine).

They are the makers of the UVI Workstation.

Try to contact them asap.

If you're not successful at it, drop me a PM, I'll get them in touch with you.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have to update and say to the defense of MOTU that ONE guy from MOTU has chimed in over at the DUC.

He has been forthcoming and promising to look into the problems.

You have gotta respect that. Just too bad that one man has to go berserk, in public, for MOTU to act.

Let us hope the future will change that. At least DUC and Gearslutz have proven to be TAKEN very serious by many a software vendors. Good so.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Good move =).

Do you ever plan to get rid of BPM and get a refund ?

That's sad if the software is easy to use, and sounds good.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash ➑️
Good move =).

Do you ever plan to get rid of BPM and get a refund ?

That's sad if the software is easy to use, and sounds good.
You know, since Oliver Tristan form MOTU started speaking on the DUC, I am willing to give it a go. And I am willing to help improve it too.

We'll see what the coming weeks bring.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 25ghosts ➑️
You know, since Oliver Tristan form MOTU started speaking on the DUC, I am willing to give it a go. And I am willing to help improve it too.

We'll see what the coming weeks bring.
Alright.

Keep us in touch .
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
That's bull****, but FWIW Protools 8 does have some pretty bad plug-in breaking stuff with its handling of multi-core CPUs. Not really their fault, the plugs should have been designed to handle it in the first place, but it's kind of the same deal with how most audio interfaces lack 64-bit drivers even though well-written 32-bit drivers are literally just a recompile away from being 64-bit. Most audio companies hack together non-standards-compliant drivers that make assumptions that are totally whack, like the assumption that an "int" call behaves only as it behaves in 32-bit.

So ProTools 8 breaks a lot of plug-ins and it's kind of a game of chicken right now to see if Digidesign backs down or everyone else* does.

Still, that's the least helpful tech support call ever. Jeez.





*Not really everyone, some plugins work just fine with the way PT8 handles multicore
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agreed ➑️
Snip....

Still, that's the least helpful tech support call ever. Jeez.
I am in contact, directly, with MOTU now. And they are really showing a total different side of what the tech. support call was about. I am sending them reports etc. and they are being very forthcoming - so I that is really great.

I have been using the stand alone version, which is very stable. And besides the major flaws in PT I have gotta say that his software is the bomb. Especially for MPC owners. It is like having hooked up a firewire cable to the MPC and now havin total control of it on the Mac
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 25ghosts ➑️
I am in contact, directly, with MOTU now. And they are really showing a total different side of what the tech. support call was about. I am sending them reports etc. and they are being very forthcoming - so I that is really great.

I have been using the stand alone version, which is very stable. And besides the major flaws in PT I have gotta say that his software is the bomb. Especially for MPC owners. It is like having hooked up a firewire cable to the MPC and now havin total control of it on the Mac
This is good to know. Can you tell us if its stable in Logic 8 as well?
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i remember when i was about to but msi from motu , the guy in my area was selling it , i tried it on two comp and i have some strange thins under sonar but running smooth on stand alone , i decided to say good buy to motu even if i wanted ethno too !!

and it was an early release sale , it w<as out since long time , so no beta feeling...

the fact is that i suspect the licence to be the cause because a lot of synnchrosoft plugs are ****ty !!

your story is cold !!

never been a fan of their engine , so if possible will give a try soon , then i will give a feedback ...will give a try to machine too!
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up Time to set the BPM Record straight

I have copied this from my DUC Post...

Hi,

so I have been communicating, extensively, with Olivier Tristan, who is developing BPM. On their side they had Pro Tools 8 and BPM working just fine, regarding the Pro Tools 8.0 HANG, when pushing play in PT's Time Line. On my side it would cause PT 8 to hang every time doing that.

I am now happy to say, that it works flawlessly on my side as well.

Here is the problem:

Prior to installing BPM I had NO problems with PT 8.0. After installing BPM I had NO problems with any other VI or FX besides BPM.

After the first problems occurred I deleted all the usual PT suspects from the preferences folder, manually. But I was not "smart" enough to figure out, that there is now a new preference file called "Pro Tools v8.0 Preference". And I still had problems.

Then, yesterday - I said to myself, "Enough, and I created a new OS X Admin Account and tried running BPM as an RTAS there. And it worked just fine.

So I went back to my "faulty" account and started trouble shooting. I could have just kept the new account but:

1) I dont feel like moving a ton of preferences etc to get back on track
2) I dont much feel like having to, maybe do that once a week if the problem is appearing again
3) I like to know what is causing the problems so that I can trouble shoot FAST when it happens again

There is ONE culprit that is causing trouble 'tween PT 8.0 and MOTU BPM and that ALONE is

Pro Tools v8.0 Preference

residing in Home/Library/Preferences/

Removing that file from the Preferences folder, immediately, relieves the symptoms.
Putting it back inside after the test, immediately, re-activates the symptom

I removed that file on all my setups and all are now running perfectly fine with BPM. Besides the KNOWN BUGS which are:

1) Every time you close and re-open BPM you have to toggle the Input of the instrument track, on which, BPM is instantiated.
Digidesign is aware of this BUG and it, can afflict trouble on all UVI engines, and is to be addressed in a future CS release. So this one does not scribble on MPTU's account.

2) A small BUG in a FX setting of BPM which defaults to ZERO but states that the Value is 2.00


All in all, I am now extremely happy with BPM, which is probably the best thought through Drum Machine since the AKAI MPC3000. The sound library is awesome and the editing possibilities amazing. If anyone every implemented Drag and Drop to perfection, it is BPM. You can drag and drop virtually anything into it. The possibility of playing parts as well as drum sounds is truly great and anyone owning a UVI library can load those into BPM as well. My favorite thing in BPM is just the ease of flow. It is like an MPC4000 with Stylus RMX and OMNISPHERE integration. The sequencer is tight.

Any MPC user will simply adore this plug-in and he/she will finally have, virtually, DAW access to his MPC.
I setup and program the sequences in BPM. Then I drag the midi pattern to the desktop and import it into the MPC4000, I still like the AKAI Feel the most, and play it back there while it triggers all the sounds and sound effects in BPM.

What I really adore is this, I can just drag and drop ALL my MPC4000 drumsounds onto the pads of BPM and import the MidiFile - and like that I can have my whole MPC inside BPM. And that is a humongous bonus.

The more I play around with this software the more I love it. And now that the RTAS version is integrating perfectly, it has become even better.

As I first wrote, I thought of getting my money back. And I was really really contemplating that. But I kept playing around with the stand alone version to assure myself that getting the money back was the right option. But the more I played the more my jaws dropped and each hour, I was like "Shoooot, you can do that tooooooo"

The point that I am trying to make here is that even though the RTAS version would still not work. I would keep this software. Additionally, I feel very secure in the MOTU or should I say Universal SoundBank, support as they are truly great people who are more than willing to listen and help.


Anyway, BPM and PT 8.0 has potential problems for the user. But now you know EXACTLY what to do, in case you are having them. Just move the Pro Tools v8.0 Preference out of the Preferences folder and you are home free.

One more thing, I dont think the following issue is a BPM one but rather that of a PT 8. If you hit play in PT's timeline BPM will start to play. But after playing for a few seconds the whole PT interface gets sluggish and slow. First I thought it was BPM but if you stop PT and hit play on BPM. the PT interface is working fast. This problem is also caused by numerous of other VIs.

Anyway, Olivier Tristan, thank YOU very much for all your help and personality
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
cane creek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
can somebody please clear something for me about BPM.

Im aware from the BPM video the you can drag/drop a midi file onto BPM , however can you make a pattern in BPM's sequencer then drag that pattern as a midi file and drop it on your DAW's sequencer ? like the Drag/drop feature in RMX because if you can then that would be a good selling point for me.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
chrisma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well I know you can "Export Current Pattern As Midi" but I haven't tried draging and dropping into my DAW. I'll try it later and report back.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek ➑️
can somebody please clear something for me about BPM.

Im aware from the BPM video the you can drag/drop a midi file onto BPM , however can you make a pattern in BPM's sequencer then drag that pattern as a midi file and drop it on your DAW's sequencer ? like the Drag/drop feature in RMX because if you can then that would be a good selling point for me.
No, but if you drag an REX file into BPM then from BPM you can drag that Midi file into you DAW. Just like with Stylus.

In case you want to do what you were asking for you would have to export the pattern, i.e. to the desktop, and then drag it into your DAW.

But trust, you dont want your DAW to handle the BPM patterns. They are so great to edit from within BPM.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm sorry to hear this happened but did you really expect this (along with any software) to work flawlessly at release?
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
cane creek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 25ghosts ➑️
No, but if you drag an REX file into BPM then from BPM you can drag that Midi file into you DAW. Just like with Stylus.

In case you want to do what you were asking for you would have to export the pattern, i.e. to the desktop, and then drag it into your DAW.

But trust, you dont want your DAW to handle the BPM patterns. They are so great to edit from within BPM.
Thank you for the reply 25ghosts , everybody works differently draging to desktop then DAW sounds good to me.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian! ➑️
I'm sorry to hear this happened but did you really expect this (along with any software) to work flawlessly at release?
In plain and simple English - YES I DO.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek ➑️
Thank you for the reply 25ghosts , everybody works differently draging to desktop then DAW sounds good to me.
You will love this software, just be advised that the RTAS version still has a few issues BUT ALL of them has a fairly easy work around.
Old 13th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe you should edit the title of this thread. It's a bit misleading now that you've figured out what was causing the problem.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nput0utput ➑️
Maybe you should edit the title of this thread. It's a bit misleading now that you've figured out what was causing the problem.
The problem is that there are still some probelms with BPM. I guess maybe its not a NO GO, but at times it feels like it. I don't know who is to blame, Digi or MOTU but I hope it gets fixed.

I'm on a brand new PC (Quad, 4 Gbs ram, XP Pro - Vista Downgrade) with LE 8 and even after deleting the preferences file I still get lock ups and freezes. Also, when BPM is first initiated I can drag and drop midi as soon as I load a kit and pattern for the very first time., but after that any other pattern will only drag as audio. Its like the "Alt" key is not being recognized. Sometimes after I drag and drop a pattern I get a frozen pc when I hit play on the PT transport.

BPM seems to work much better in Live with the only problem being that I still can't drag midi clips into the sequencer, but I can onto my desktop and just use the Live browser to quickly drag it in. No biggie, but I can't use any of the A.I.R. instruments that come with PT 8 and I happen to like them quite a bit, so this is something I want to do.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nput0utput ➑️
Maybe you should edit the title of this thread. It's a bit misleading now that you've figured out what was causing the problem.
Believe me, I tried editing the title.... And it WAS edited. Only, it DID NOT edit the the title the way it appears in the forum. I dont know how to... I already tried in the advanced part of editing the thread.

Look at the first post's Headline it HAS been edited. But the forum does NOT take on the new title.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamebreaker ➑️
The problem is that there are still some probelms with BPM. I guess maybe its not a NO GO, but at times it feels like it. I don't know who is to blame, Digi or MOTU but I hope it gets fixed.

I'm on a brand new PC (Quad, 4 Gbs ram, XP Pro - Vista Downgrade) with LE 8 and even after deleting the preferences file I still get lock ups and freezes. Also, when BPM is first initiated I can drag and drop midi as soon as I load a kit and pattern for the very first time., but after that any other pattern will only drag as audio. Its like the "Alt" key is not being recognized. Sometimes after I drag and drop a pattern I get a frozen pc when I hit play on the PT transport.

BPM seems to work much better in Live with the only problem being that I still can't drag midi clips into the sequencer, but I can onto my desktop and just use the Live browser to quickly drag it in. No biggie, but I can't use any of the A.I.R. instruments that come with PT 8 and I happen to like them quite a bit, so this is something I want to do.
Hi,
try setting your PB engine in PT to 1 RTAS Processor(if you have multiple) and a Buffer of 512. See if that helps it.
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 25ghosts ➑️
Hi,
try setting your PB engine in PT to 1 RTAS Processor(if you have multiple) and a Buffer of 512. See if that helps it.
Unfortunately that isn't working either. I think for now I just drag audio files I need and do and do any custom programming in Live and then import that for the final mix. Not the best solution, but the only one I can think of atm.
Old 20th August 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I thought I was the only person havin Issue's! I can't even get bpm to show up in my Pro Tool's 8! I have Cubase it show's up as a vst in cubase but never in PT.... I've tried even downgrading to 7.4 and it still did'nt show up! Im running it in windows xp ? any one else know what the problem is? it supposed to be a rtas vst Im clueless?
Old 20th August 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Deleted User
Guest
MOTU sucks and I have three of their pieces, never again
Old 20th August 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit ➑️
MOTU sucks and I have three of their pieces, never again
It is working here.
Old 14th September 2009 | Show parent
  #30
PKP
Gear Maniac
 
PKP's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
IΒ΄m really interested in BPM even after reading multiple "negative" reviews and comments, I guess it sounds are really good!
So is it working or not? IΒ΄m running PT8 on Mac G5
Thanks for tips and answers boys!!!!!


PK.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 68 views: 8554
Avatar for RyanC
RyanC 23rd March 2011
replies: 295 views: 74246
Avatar for anguswoodhead
anguswoodhead 26th March 2013
replies: 78 views: 7006
Avatar for Neodym
Neodym 4th June 2012
replies: 1296 views: 181695
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump