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Will Logic's Space Designer be "great" with better IR's like Acousticas?
Old 5th February 2009
  #1
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infiniteposse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Will Logic's Space Designer be "great" with better IR's like Acousticas?

Hi all-

I'm not seeing any threads that deal directly with this question, so I'll ask it. I'm a Logic 8 user and I currently use Space Designer sparingly as I think I've developed an idea that it's an "ok" option, but not great. I use my UAD2 with the Plate 140 all of time for reverb and it's amazing, but I'd like to feel like I had some other exceptional verbs (halls/rooms, etc) to setup on busses just to work with sometimes.

As I read up on Altiverb, VSS3 and Space Designer, it seems like they're all interfaces for the usage of IR's and that the quality of the IR's is where the real magic happens. Is this correct? Are they're major architectural/functional differences between the various Convo verb apps, or just differing quality of IR's? If the apps all differ, what's each of their selling points? Ease of use? Sound quality?

The reason I ask is that I was considering investing in the Acousticas IR's and using them in Space Designer, but I want to feel like I'm taking a big step up and am using something on par to the UAD Plate 140, which I love. If Sound Designer with Acousticas IR's is only going to get me half the way there, I might think twice and invest in a better Convolution app first and go from there.

If anyone has gone through this and could offer some clarity or words of wisdom I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
Old 5th February 2009
  #2
Tui
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For really good reverb, you need hardware. TC, Lexicon, Bricasti.

Convolution reverbs all sound crap, IMHO.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 15 years
Since this is the "music computers" forum area, it would be great to hear from someone willing to contribute to the question (rather than a stuck-up response crapping on non-hardware reverbs). Particularly someone who has hopefully tried what the OP is asking.

Anyone using other IR's in Space Designer?
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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mobilemozart's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I remember Dave Pensado saying somewhere in his Q&A that IR Reverbs can do the job just fine. I think the Space Designer sounds good already.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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Number 6's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Space designer can sound great with the right IRs. It will do the job admirably.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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bumbum's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
free IR's

there are a lot of free IR's, just do a Google search. I found hundrets, some are very useful. A nice addition to the stock ones.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
also space designer does realtime convolution eefects lkike soundhack, welll sound hack doesnt do realtime.

you load a vocal track as the IR and use SD in the guitar tracks and youll get some cool ass atmos and effects.

as for being a reverb, it works fine. its just we are used to listening the other reverbs units so we assume they are better. its matter of getting used to them, cause both type of reverbs.. are basically lying to us making us think its a real space the band is playing.
usually logic stoock stuff is OK, not bad but not good. so id find good IRs that u buy not that are free. a good IR which a pro took the time to do it right.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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infiniteposse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. So just to clarify, is there a functional difference between, say, Altiverb and Sound Designer? Is one "True stereo" and the other not? Does one process at a higher rate?

I just watched the Quicktime demo on AudioEase's site for Speakerphone and it was amazing. That's kind of making me think an investment in the Ativerb/All-in-one package might be worth it. It's a lot of $$$, but reverb is a pretty core aspect of mixing and I do a lot of it lately...

Thanks again!
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I find you need to tweak a little, but it's fine. I find Altiverb better out of the box (no pun intended ) but I made some IR's myself and was pleased with the results.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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crufty's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
just a thought--

with logic plugs, the higher your sampling rate the better they sound.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 15 years
+1 for altiverb... depending on "how important" verbs and iR spaces are to you and your mixes both conventionally and creatively.

I agree it's better right "out of the box." Audioease is indeed a bunch of fanatics
Old 6th February 2009
  #12
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25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by infiniteposse ➑️
Hi all-

I'm not seeing any threads that deal directly with this question, so I'll ask it. I'm a Logic 8 user and I currently use Space Designer sparingly as I think I've developed an idea that it's an "ok" option, but not great. I use my UAD2 with the Plate 140 all of time for reverb and it's amazing, but I'd like to feel like I had some other exceptional verbs (halls/rooms, etc) to setup on busses just to work with sometimes.

As I read up on Altiverb, VSS3 and Space Designer, it seems like they're all interfaces for the usage of IR's and that the quality of the IR's is where the real magic happens. Is this correct? Are they're major architectural/functional differences between the various Convo verb apps, or just differing quality of IR's? If the apps all differ, what's each of their selling points? Ease of use? Sound quality?

The reason I ask is that I was considering investing in the Acousticas IR's and using them in Space Designer, but I want to feel like I'm taking a big step up and am using something on par to the UAD Plate 140, which I love. If Sound Designer with Acousticas IR's is only going to get me half the way there, I might think twice and invest in a better Convolution app first and go from there.

If anyone has gone through this and could offer some clarity or words of wisdom I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
Besides varying parameters in the different convolution reverbs I have yet to hear one sound better than the other. If all parameters are set to zero or default any reverb calling itself a convolution reverb should sound the same. Once you start tweaking, each of them will give your different options. I like space designer and use that a lot when working in logic, it is very efficient. Almost all the Convo reverbs are offering different parameters to tweak. Revolver is king when it come to parameters but is only for RTAS and is a HOG. I like the gain envelope in IR1 but not the way of browsing the irs. Altiverb is great but Soundwise, if no parameter has been engaged, I cannot hear any difference 'tween any of em..
I bet if you were to make a thread called space designer vs. altiverb you would end with a draw ;-)
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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infiniteposse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks guys.

Since money's tight at the moment I think I may check out CSR and get the nicer IR's from Acousticas. These in combo with my UAD's Plate 140 verbs may work for a while at way less expense than Altiverb. There's a lot of other unexciting things I need to get too, so the savings will get used on other items that will be useful.

Thanks for all of the info. I appreciate it!
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
I really don't get the positive hype about CSR. It just doesn't sound that good IMO. For a good sounding and priced algorithmic software reverb try this ArtsAcoustic | because sound matters or if you have an open PCI slot try to get a used Powercore and use Classicverb. It sounds great. Regarding the original question SD sounds excellent as long as the IR's are top shelf or you synthesize them.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFTPH ➑️
I really don't get the positive hype about CSR. It just doesn't sound that good IMO. For a good sounding and priced algorithmic software reverb try this ArtsAcoustic | because sound matters or if you have an open PCI slot try to get a used Powercore and use Classicverb. It sounds great. Regarding the original question SD sounds excellent as long as the IR's are top shelf or you synthesize them.
+1
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
If you don't touch any parameters to tweak you impulse Space Designer is great.

But if you want to dial in something special Altiverb kicks ass!

Also tweaking in Altiverb is almost like tweaking algorithmic reverb because it responses quite fast to your adjustments - unlike many other convolution reverbs (inc. spacedesigner)...

imho

(edit: so I kind of doubled what 25ghosts already said )
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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infiniteposse's Avatar
 
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OK. So algorithmic-wise you guys think Arts Acoustic wins over BreVerb or CSR?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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SWAN808's Avatar
 
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If you are in the market for an algorithmic reverb this new one IMO is pretty good also:

Galbanum | products | aether

although it looks absolutely hideous
Old 6th February 2009
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
As I read up on Altiverb, VSS3 and Space Designer, it seems like they're all interfaces for the usage of IR's and that the quality of the IR's is where the real magic happens. Is this correct? Are they're major architectural/functional differences between the various Convo verb apps, or just differing quality of IR's? If the apps all differ, what's each of their selling points? Ease of use? Sound quality?
[/QUOTE]



Yes, it's the quality of IR's that makes 100 % of the sound of the reverb - not the program. Altiverb and SD are very good programs with similar features. Altiverb has more and better (already set) IR presets and can not be used in SP. But there is just as good IR's out there that works in SD. Google and find.

Good luck!

kid65
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 15 years
So if you have Sound Designer/Logic Studio and you just want to use IRs, there is no point in buying Altiverb when you can buy a set of less expensive IRs and use them in SD?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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Tube World's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
If you really want a good convolution reverb, I would suggest looking at the Waves IR1. Not only do they have the great impules (no short balloon test with them), but you get much more control over the parameters that even include EQ. Read this for more info. Waves IR-1 Convolution Reverb Review by Glenn Bucci

If you just want good impulses you can use the SIR plug in that you can get for free. But being able to control the reverb like the IR1 can, is what makes it really shine.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFTPH ➑️
I really don't get the positive hype about CSR. It just doesn't sound that good IMO. For a good sounding and priced algorithmic software reverb try this ArtsAcoustic | because sound matters or if you have an open PCI slot try to get a used Powercore and use Classicverb. It sounds great. Regarding the original question SD sounds excellent as long as the IR's are top shelf or you synthesize them.
I don't have the experience some folks on here have, but I must say that the orchestra hall, dark piano verb, and several of the room presets in CSR get a lot of use in my studio... don't forget that they're like guitar effect "presets" - for YOUR use on THAT song you may need to dig in and adjust. For the money, and the buy one get one that I did (with Ampeg SVX - a Godsend on basstracks) I like CSR... I have no doubt a Bricasti sounds better, but no one can tell the difference outside of the pro-audio world. We listen to music with our engineer hats on - I'm def. guilty of it... the masses listen to songs. I can get a pleasing variety of reverbs with CSR that I don't find lacking. Just wanted to throw that in there.

I've got the lexicon IR's and the tape delay, slapbacks, and cavernous halls are AWESOME with an IR host. Different stuff - all usable

-Matt
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 ➑️
If you are in the market for an algorithmic reverb this new one IMO is pretty good also:

Galbanum | products | aether

although it looks absolutely hideous
+1
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by astronmr20 ➑️
Since this is the "music computers" forum area, it would be great to hear from someone willing to contribute to the question (rather than a stuck-up response crapping on non-hardware reverbs). Particularly someone who has hopefully tried what the OP is asking.

Anyone using other IR's in Space Designer?
I have. Still sounds crap. If you don't know what I mean, listen to recordings that were done with proper hardware.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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25ghosts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui ➑️
I have. Still sounds crap. If you don't know what I mean, listen to recordings that were done with proper hardware.
I have. And I own the hardware. IRs are great.

Making statements like the one above, generally disregarding IRs and the principle of convolution technology, is not very clever if one knows what convolution technology is capable of..
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui ➑️
For really good reverb, you need hardware. TC, Lexicon, Bricasti.

Convolution reverbs all sound crap, IMHO.
IMHO this kind of statement is fine - but out of context it exemplifies a lot that is wrong with some of the d*ckheads that don't respond properly to the OP.

RTFQ (yes read the f'king question instead of spitting out your own absolute opinion).

Did he ask for your opinion about which were the best reverbs?... Can he afford the Bricasti? (f*king hell). Demonstrate some humility and intelligence. Show the OP some respect. Try to be part of HIS solution or STFU.


Space Designer loses something when importing IR's - sounds a little duller...
I do not use Space Designer for importing and playing back third party stuff I use Altiverb.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I really like using CSR for creative reverb use. It has plenty of parameters to dial in the sound you want, and to place it exactly where you want it. I like it on effects, synths, anything creative. CSR tends to sound metallic and digital.

However, for real sounding acoustic space, I prefer REFLECT by Virsyn. Just sounds smooth and natural. REFLECT also loads IR files, but I can't seem to find any that blow me away.
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