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EastWest Trying to Go Out of Business?
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Head
 
Waywyn's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey all,

more geeking on this forum then writing, but I thought I might chime in here for this discussion.

I am not a "big fish" as some of the guys here at gearslutz, but I work as a professional composer for quite a while now ("only" 8 years from now) and did quite a few projects, mostly video games such as Mortal Combat vs DC, John Woo's Stranglehold, Sacred 2, etc. ... just to name a few.

So far, I worked with Windows and OS X. I use Cubase 4 and Logic 8 and worked with lots of plugs, sample libraries, setup possibilties and so on, blabla ...


First of all let me mention that in my humble experience, Soundsonline released more patches and bugfixes during a shorter amount of time which actually fixed bugs (and not adding a few more) than other companies do. Besides that, if I have an issue, I usually get feedback from Soundsonline even within hours.

I am currently working on OS 10.5.6 with Logic 8.0.2 on MAC Pro 8core 3GHz and 8GB RAM and I have absolutely no problems with PLAY.

The only reason which makes PLAY crash is the RAM limit of my sequencer. I can fully load 4GB within Logic and around 16 instances of PLAY packed with all kinds of different instruments and articulations. Try that with the "green sampler"

Besides all that my new typical orchestra template is very complex and uses all kind of samplers such as VSL Ensemble, Kontakt2, PLAY, EXS etc. .. besides that I run several instances of Altiverb and other plugins and have lots of routings and group busses going on and I never experienced a single problem which was caused by PLAY.

Just felt like saying that!

PS: Sorry for my not perfect english, since it isn't my mother language.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Rogers ➑️
There seems to be an effort by a few on this forum to trash us lately, and we smell a rat!!
Doug - You can suspect what you want. I'm not working for a competitor. I have no relationship with any competitor of yours. I am a customer. I'm simply telling about my experience with your company. I have for the most part received extremely poor support. You would do well to take the complaints of customers to heart, and use it to improve your business.

Now, let's get one thing straight here - I'm the customer in this relationship. I'm not your friend. I'm not your fanboy. I owe you nothing. If you don't like that, I'd be happy to take a refund. It's simply a fact that I bought something from you that didn't work, and I was unable to get any meaningful support until I brought the issue onto GS. If you want to whine that you think I'm being unfair, or that there's some conspiracy out to get you, then that's something wrong with you, not me.
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Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Kafka,

Have you really tried getting help? Have you exhausted all resources? I and many others over at the Soundonline forum try helping people get up and running. Are you on that forum?

I've tried helping a few folks who really don't seem to WANT to be helped. (I'm not saying your one of those people).

We are running PLAY on a MAc Intel and have several instances of all kinds of different PLAY products. We run it with Logic 7.2.4 and 8 and have no issues. I know people telling you that they are running it successfully is not a whole lot of consolation but it may help to find someone with a similar setup to yours and go from there?

-Allan
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Leung ➑️
Have you really tried getting help? Have you exhausted all resources? I and many others over at the Soundonline forum try helping people get up and running. Are you on that forum?
...
I know people telling you that they are running it successfully is not a whole lot of consolation but it may help to find someone with a similar setup to yours and go from there?
Thanks, Allan. I know you're one of the most active participants over there. I assure you, my only interest is in getting this working.

Actually, my frustration began when I tried to post this exact question over on the Soundsonline forum a few weeks ago. If the mods over there would just release my post (I assure you, it has no profanity in it - simply a statement of the issues, and a question about how people are dealing with it) I'm sure there would be some responses to it that would be useful.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
..................."Now, let's get one thing straight here - I'm the customer in this relationship. I'm not your friend. I'm not your fanboy. I owe you nothing. If you don't like that, I'd be happy to take a refund. It's simply a fact that I bought something from you that didn't work, and I was unable to get any meaningful support until I brought the issue onto GS. If you want to whine that you think I'm being unfair, or that there's some conspiracy out to get you, then that's something wrong with you, not me....."


Yowza. That's why I never post at a public forum under my company name. Ha Doug ...stay over at the Hoffman forum where it's much safer.

Ain't we all animals when we put on the "I the consumer" hat !!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Check out Soundsonline's site if you like -- there are lots of people there who are helping each other with configurations (hardware, software), DAW interactions and workarounds. There's also quite a bit from users lately on getting more RAM involved by using PLAY standalone.

I heard about this thread at Soundsonline. I'm sorry anyone is having any problems with any software and I have posted on a number of other sites urging people just to check in and get sorted quickly.

If you want help, just post there and many times other users or a moderator is able to fix the problem in short order.

And for what it's worth, I am only a customer of East West -- a composer. I have written music for a few movies and I don't have any endorsements or any other kind of thing going on with them. If you want to check me out, have a listen to some of the music (site link below).

Kind regards,

John

John Graham - Composer
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra, both the Silver Pro and Gold XP Pro Complete, and find the quality of the samples to be excellent.

Registrating the software is a bit tricky though, but I've always been able to get support to get up and running when I need it. Once you learn how the software works, it's a piece of cake.

I don't have the Play interface, so I can't comment on that.

So East West gets a thumbs up from me.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
timmcallister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL ➑️
right, and all 3 of those guys joined gearslutz today!!!
i agree - absolutely suspicious.

otoh, with great apprehension, I bought my first EW products (SD2 and VOP) about 6 weeks ago. Apart from a small install glitch. Haven't had a single stability problem with many many hours of use now.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
Doug Rogers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka ➑️
Thanks, Allan. I know you're one of the most active participants over there. I assure you, my only interest is in getting this working.

Actually, my frustration began when I tried to post this exact question over on the Soundsonline forum a few weeks ago. If the mods over there would just release my post (I assure you, it has no profanity in it - simply a statement of the issues, and a question about how people are dealing with it) I'm sure there would be some responses to it that would be useful.
OK, we've been helping you in PMs for 3 days now, you told me yesterday morning -

"Jay Coffman got back to me yesterday. He was able to identify a number of things that may be helpful. Basically, we were able to identify a way of working using one set of settings for performance and another for rendering. I'm going to work with that, and if there are any continued issues, I'll let you know."

Then you said you had a GUI problem, and I pointed you to the Digi tech bulletin about that.

What more were we supposed to do???

Then you say you can't post at our forum. All first posts at our forum have to be approved to prevent spam, after the first post they are not moderated, but I couldn't find your name over there. Maybe if we know that we can follow this through because this is not typical of our tech support.

The title of this topic could have been, "I need tech support from EASTWEST", you didn't have to scare our customers.

Why don't people use their real names on forums? It's odd being in discussions with people while you don't know their name, background or affiliations, and obviously leads to suspicion about motives when conclusions are made that are simply not true.

Cheers,

- DR
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Nut
 
Doug Rogers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmcallister ➑️
i agree - absolutely suspicious.

otoh, with great apprehension, I bought my first EW products (SD2 and VOP) about 6 weeks ago. Apart from a small install glitch. Haven't had a single stability problem with many many hours of use now.
Tim,

There is nothing suspicious about that, I posted a link to this topic on our forum because we were so infuriated by the topic heading, and some of our forum members came here to defend us, because they know it's not true.

I hope you're enjoying the products.

Cheers,

- DR
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
FWIW, IΒ΄m using six PLAY libraries on a PTHD/Mac Pro system with no problems. (after the third update which was long ago) I hope you will get yours working soon, because the libraries are great.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #42
AB3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have Gypsy and Ra. I am looking forward to getting the play version of Ra this week. Both have worked flawlessly on an XP system with 2.6 gb of usable ram at most for samples.

I am looking forward to buying the EW orchestra samples. They have lowered the prices and it is very enticing.

I like the quality of their samples.

I hope they are not going out of business like the title of this thread implies. I hope they do well.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Addict
 
timmcallister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Rogers ➑️
Tim,

There is nothing suspicious about that, I posted a link to this topic on our forum because we were so infuriated by the topic heading, and some of our forum members came here to defend us, because they know it's not true.

I hope you're enjoying the products.

Cheers,

- DR
Doug, I am enjoying the products. Greatly. Now that you pulled me over to the darkside (ilok, not ew) I will certainly consider your products in the future, and it seems certain I'll have to pick up the SD2 expansion.

as far as the first time posters, it doesn't really matter to me. Your product is stable and sounds great. You've got one happy customer here and I'm happy to share my experience.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Good evening everyone:

Greetings from beautiful San Francisco. I hope you are all doing well.

Someone pointed me to this website, and this thread, and I have been reading the various posts here. Frankly, I am a little surprised by the highly negative posts about the quality of Eastwest's libraries and customer here. I am a professional composer of music for film and TV, and although I have not been doing this for a very long time, when I first heard demos of their libraries, I was immediately hooked - these guys are on to something. I have purchased all of their major libraries, when they were powered by the Native Instruments sampler (kompakt) and now Play, and I am keenly interested in all of their new libraries and the new Play 2 engine (although I am still figuring out what that can do for me).

Yes, I have had many technical issues - not specifically related to Eastwest but to my entire home studio setup - and there are millions of things I do not understand about my libraries and how I can get the best out of them. I come from a classical music background and am still trying hard to wrap my mind around the technical / midi things. That said, I have always found the support from Eastwest and their forums to be very good and supportive.

No, I do not think even for one minute they will go out of business any time soon. They just opened their new studios in Hollywood - Cello studios, completely redesigned by Phillippe Starck - and they are ready for business.

Just my $ 0.02.

Peter
Home
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Lemonsqueezer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Could have been a ploy to bring more traffic to Gearslutz?

The plot thickens.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Rogers ➑️
OK, we've been helping you in PMs for 3 days now, you told me yesterday morning -

"Jay Coffman got back to me yesterday. He was able to identify a number of things that may be helpful. Basically, we were able to identify a way of working using one set of settings for performance and another for rendering. I'm going to work with that, and if there are any continued issues, I'll let you know."

Then you said you had a GUI problem, and I pointed you to the Digi tech bulletin about that.

What more were we supposed to do???

Then you say you can't post at our forum. All first posts at our forum have to be approved to prevent spam, after the first post they are not moderated, but I couldn't find your name over there. Maybe if we know that we can follow this through because this is not typical of our tech support.

The title of this topic could have been, "I need tech support from EASTWEST", you didn't have to scare our customers.

Why don't people use their real names on forums? It's odd being in discussions with people while you don't know their name, background or affiliations, and obviously leads to suspicion about motives when conclusions are made that are simply not true.

Cheers,

- DR
What more were you supposed to do? I've been since the beginning of January to get a response from you through your channels. It wasn't until I started this thread here that I got any useful response at all. How about answer your customer's questions the first time they are asked? How about take it seriously when people tell you what the problems are?

Enough of this infantile behavior, Doug. I am your customer. You are not in a position to place demands on me. Your response to me should be "thank you for your business, we hope to please you and that you'll consider us again". If you think this isn't cool, then you need to rework your support system, and make sure it is responsive, so that your customers don't feel the need to look for support outside it.

Seriously - have you learned yet that you are the source of all of your own problems?

My screen name over on Soundonline is the same as it is over here. If you will notice in your own visitor messages on Soundsonline, Doug, I asked you this question this question on 1/19, to which you never replied. This was the only way I could see to get a message across, because my questions to the forum had been blocked, and I was not getting any significant response on my trouble tickets.

For the benefit of the GSer's who may not have an account and be able to see this on your site, I'll post my message here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka
kafka
01-19-2009 02:18 PM
This Message is Moderated
Just wondering if questions about QL Pianos performance on XP w/ProTools are taboo. I posted a pretty easy question the other day, asking for advice on this subject. I got a message that it would be held up until a moderator approved it, but I saw no action at all. I posted another today.

If the product is too buggy to discuss or get support on, then please PM me on how I can get a refund. Thanks.
Old 1st February 2009
  #47
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hey everyone. I just want to say that I am using a few PLAY products with no problems at all. I recently switched from Logic 8 to Pro Tools 8LE and, thanks to a helpful article from SOS. I have no issues with PLAY PLatinum nor Fab Four using that DAW as well. My set up is modest. Mac Pro Quad 2.66ghz processor with 4 gigs RAM, MBox2 Mini for sound card and StudioLogic Sl990XP for the controller. Dual Acer 22" displays.

Sorry that some of you have had issues with PLAY but I find it works as well if not better than the previous Kontakt versions (actually, with the Intel Mac, I had to rely on Kontakt 3 which was okay but I prefer PLAY's GUI to it to be honest- less convoluted).
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Most software do not work out of the box. And yes PLAY is still relatively new and seemingly unstable. However, Eastwest are trying their utmost best to get it stable and working for most computer setups. Like it or not, NO software is ever going to be 100% compatible with ALL kinds of computer systems. There are just too many components and third party drivers that could cause incompatibility issues.

For those of you having issues, you really need more patience in the troubleshooting process. Of course, make sure your system meets the stated minimum requirements at the very least because if not sad to say your system just isn't up to the task. Provide every single detail you can about your setup and follow the troubleshooting advice. If all else fails, it may simply be that your system just does not and can not work well with PLAY.

It's the same for hardware; I personally owned a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 and was VERY happy with the quality. However, it just could not work with my system for some reason. It took me about 6 whole months of troubleshooting, waiting for their horrible NI tech support guy to answer my questions (he didnt seem to have any interest at all in helping me out when I was trying my best to get the unit to work), and finally after suffering both rage and reluctance I wrote in personally to an NI representative and he was gracious enough to let me return the unit for a refund.

Having said that, EW has started a small Beta testing community for PLAY using forum members doing everyday music production with different kinds of workstations who are willing to try out the new patches in an effort to get new Patches as stable as possible before release. I know this for a fact because I have been testing it. You can't say they aren't putting in any effort to support their PLAY software.

PLAY HAS been buggy and quite unuseable when it first came out, but recently it has seen great improvement in stability and performance. Im happy with the support and opportunity I get from EW to improve their software, and even happier with the kind of stellar sound quality of their libraries.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hmmmmm.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Before this thread gets locked - my experience with East West has been mixed. I liked some of their products but still feel pissed-off about the implementation of Symphonic Choirs on an Intel Mac running Logic 7 / Logic 8.
Obviously their forum is censored and I have experienced this. Threads get deleted after a while. If you count how many complaints there have been about SC then maybe they wouldn't sell the product at all if prospective buyers read the forums - so I guess that's why they do it.
I've also noticed that they bring people into negative threads to talk up the positive. This is what they did when I made a complaint about SC. But they can do what they want - it's their business.
Developing any new product is a difficult business and there are many different platforms to compatibility test before releasing. It's my finding that they don't warn customers of compatibility issues as they should. If they want to have a loyal customer base then I think they should be more transparent with what works and what does not.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
If this stuff doesn't work properly...get your money back???, is just a product at the end of the day.thumbsup
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Addict
 
dirtboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As confusing as this all appears to be, I'm happy to see accountability coming around to bite software companies in the butt. Too many of them running roughshod over their paying clients, treating them like PAYING beta testers. More please......
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark III ➑️
If this stuff doesn't work properly...get your money back???, is just a product at the end of the day.thumbsup
You can't get your money back with any software when it doesn't work.

Good companies allow you to sell your licenses though......
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
First time poster - hi guys.

My experience of EW PLAY has been quite a positive one once I took the time to understand / share and discuss problems. I have had problems initally with I-lok setup and then product Ids and found tech support to be useful and supportive. My other PLAY / DAW problems were.... created by myself!

EWQL have and continue to respond to their customer needs and allow customers to raise concerns / debate problems in regards to their products.. Support - Soundsonline-Forums

Also the EWQL developer / customer community is probably one of the most friendly and informative forums I have encountered. A good measure of the product.

@OP Hope you get Pianos working.... wish I had it!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I noticed that over at EW soundsonline there is a thread about this thread. This is some creepy ****. All these first time posters in this thread - what are they contributing to the gearslutz community? Registering just to defend a product that you use? Jeeze if I did that every time someone had problems with a product that I use then i'd be all 'registered-out'. It's 'Kool-Aid' creepy.
I get the feeling that this is a bit desperate. If a developer gets negative feedback then suck it up. Improve the implementation of your product. Become more transparent. Make sure people know what the issues are before they buy your product.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I am new to this forum but feel compelled to post as I have been locked out of the Sounds-Online forum for being one of the 1% of unhappy customers (I have not posted spam, profanities, do not work for another company and do not hide behind an anonymous name b.t.w).

As a long time customer of EW/QL I have always been impressed by the quality of their samples and continue to use them (in Kontakt format!). I am also very happy for the 99% who have had no problems with PLAY, however it is very wrong to assume that the 1% β€œgrew up using loops, buy an expensive product and are in over their heads”, therefore must be blamed, insulted and banned from their forums. It is a question of how much time & money you can invest in an over-hyped product, with little to no result, before making the decision to abandon it.

EW/QL only have themselves to blame for the current bashing threads. It would make good business sense to offer refunds to the 1% and avoid any further damage to sales.

Corporate Sabotage?, false information? – come on Doug!

Regards,

Justin
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Nut
 
dubaifox's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As a long time member of Soundsonline and a long'ish member of gearslutz, I have a few observations;

1. EW Products are some of the finest sounding libraries out there
2. EW is a bit heavy handed in pulling posts that are overly negative on their forums. (this is common knowledge and it gets them in trouble)
3. They do offer regular updates that do solve serious issues
(don't get me started on the Kontakt update)
4. There are SERIOUS problems and always have been with Pro Tools and RTAS (whose fault this is, is unclear...some are suggesting Digidesign is hampering 3rd party development so more people go to their version of Play...Structure.)
5.Their product support gets mixed reviews. If there is a problem that they can help with....they are very helpful....if not...they hang you out to dry.
6. Play libraries require powerful computers! Many complainers have older systems. Not a good mix.
7. On Mac, The most success is being reported from Cubase, Logic and DP users on the latest Intel Macs with lots of RAM. Pray you aren't trying to use it as an RTAS plug-in.

Paul Hopkins
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This is cool. While all you long-time EW users are lurking here in the same thread, I have a question.

I've never owned an EW product, but do they have a collection of a solo or chamber strings that is dry and with mutes?

Like VSL's Chamber II or solo strings II? No regular strings .... too many of those in the world. But small, dry, and with mutes ... that's what I'm looking for

I've never really looked at the entire EW site over the years because for me, there's just too much stuff to look at.

To keep this question qualified as on-topic, I spose it's appropriate to also say if you hate it, love it, or it doesn't work at all on your setup. Or does.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
There is good offer from the owner of the company to personally help out folk at this forum with issues they may be having. (Find link in above threads)

Let's leave it at that and take a break from the repeated bashing.

Thanks.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
slaves666's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm very intrigued by this thread.....

Can someone count how many new posters there are in this thread.....something is FISHY......

I think it may be a new gearslutz record.
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