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Color of DAW affects sound of mix?
Old 2nd December 2008
  #1
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stresstour's Avatar
 
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Color of DAW affects sound of mix?

I have Logic 8 and PTLE 7.4

When I mix the same song in both DAWs I get different results in the high mid frequencies.

Is it possible that I am getting lost in the visual differences which in return affects my listening judgment?

Anybody else experienced this?
Old 2nd December 2008
  #2
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Ludwig's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
different plug ins?
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #3
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stresstour's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig ➑️
different plug ins?

Some are... but I don't know that is what is making me choose more darker sweeps in one DAW than another.

It kind of sounds like one mix is mastered and the other is not.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #4
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
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Quote:
When I mix the same song in both DAWs I get different results
Why not just set all the faders, pan, and all other controls to zero in both software programs with the same, untouched audio files. Then bounce the audio and listen both examples somewhere else. You are going to get a different result because you are mixing the same material twice at different times.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Why not just set all the faders, pan, and all other controls to zero in both software programs with the same, untouched audio files. Then bounce the audio and listen both examples somewhere else. You are going to get a different result because you are mixing the same material twice at different times.
So I guess I'm by myself on the color theory then.

I will try the bounce option though. thx
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stresstour ➑️
So I guess I'm by myself on the color theory then.

I will try the bounce option though. thx
It seems no one has found a way to effectively answer this question of daws sounding different when it comes to a real world mix. Many times people have said that they used the same plug ins and and levels and got different results on different DAWS. Someone else will come and scream pan law or Faders scaled differently. Perhaps those are the reasons but you can do the same apparent mix and get different results in software.
Old 2nd December 2008
  #7
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Yeah I may do some more pan law research. That or just pick the DAW that I get better results with and stick with it?
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stresstour ➑️
So I guess I'm by myself on the color theory then.

I will try the bounce option though. thx
No, your not......there's just no way we can figure out what is going on from your posting, and the fact that you will always come to a different result, when you......ehhhh, mixed it again. Its just the laws of nature. There is a difference in sound with software but its not night and day. You should do further "objective" testing, and decide which sounds the best to you.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #9
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I don't get the point actually. If you were using identical plugs with identical settings in both cases, and the sound was different, that would be meaningful. If you are mixing by ear, using different plugs and different settings on each, and one sounds different from the other, it's because you mixed them differently.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey ➑️
I don't get the point actually. If you were using identical plugs with identical settings in both cases, and the sound was different, that would be meaningful. If you are mixing by ear, using different plugs and different settings on each, and one sounds different from the other, it's because you mixed them differently.
But how much of that "difference" is influenced (rather than natural random spontaneity) , and what might be the influences?

It's always an interesting conversation, not that there has to be an answer.

But you know, how can we, or can we deliberately influence ourselves before sitting down... by listening to certain music, looking at certain art, looking at colors, doing drugs, eating, etc. and to what degree?
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #11
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why not mix it, bounce every track down to a stereo file and then just load all the stereo files to a unity gain file in both daws?
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ➑️
But how much of that "difference" is influenced (rather than natural random spontaneity) , and what might be the influences?

It's always an interesting conversation, not that there has to be an answer.

But you know, how can we, or can we deliberately influence ourselves before sitting down... by listening to certain music, looking at certain art, looking at colors, doing drugs, eating, etc. and to what degree?
I think the influence of having more than one daw is the problem.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #13
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Mike Derrick's Avatar
 
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I dunno, everyday I go to mix I end up tweaking something, so it always turns out different. You're assuming that regardless of mood, time of day, condition of your ears, you will always mix identically,...I think this is unreasonable to expect. So you yourself are the x-factor in making the DAW's sound different,...not the DAW's themselves,...or the colours, however that said, if the colours effect your mood and your mood effects the way you mix,...then you may have a point. This might be a good experiment for an university psych class, although I'm not sure you could ever get a definitive answer based on those somewhat ellusive intangibles.
Old 2nd December 2008
  #14
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🎧 10 years
One of the most important things i learned on this forum is that absolutely everything contributes to your sound. of course protools is going to sound warmer, more vintage and polished than consumer DAWs. why else would they call it protools? note: if it's protools LE it will sound like crap (i agree with another thread a few months back stating they should change the name).

If you keep up with this board you will come to understand that you need to develop your ears to hear the differences between everything. you sound like you are on the right path but here are areas that will further improve your sound in order of importance:

1. Cables (including firewire)
2. External Clocks (never track w/o one)
3. Converters (you shoud buy at least 4 or 5 depending on the sound you would like to capture)
4. Pres
5. Everything else
Old 2nd December 2008
  #15
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h4nc0's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stresstour ➑️
I have Logic 8 and PTLE 7.4

When I mix the same song in both DAWs I get different results in the high mid frequencies.

Is it possible that I am getting lost in the visual differences which in return affects my listening judgment?

Anybody else experienced this?
I also think this is possible and affects people more than they realize. Try turning off the monitor/s while mixing, too.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #16
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I get what you mean and I think you are right when you say that the visual aspect of a daw can affect the way you perceive the sound.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #17
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Ok, so here's the premise for the university psych class experiment. Get 100 engineers to mix with the same song with a green DAW background. The next day using the same song, get 50 of the original 100 to mix using a red DAW background and 50 as a control group to mix again with the green DAW background. If all 100 mixes turn out different on the second day, then I'd say colour has no effect. If the second day reveals consistant enough differences between the 50 who mixed with red background and the 50 who mixed again with the green background,...perhaps you have a point.

Any volunteers? heh
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #18
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I know for sure that when I look at an equalizer curve and adjust, I tend to subconciously go by what looks right or wrong. Tall, high Q's don't look right, smiley face doesn't look right, so I'm likly to pull it back.

With just knobs, I just turn without worrying about it.

Surely this happens with every process when working. Even worse if you started out using DAWs rather than a less visual medium. You're accustomed to the way certain parameter movements look in a particular DAW.
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato ➑️
..... of course protools is going to sound warmer, more vintage and polished than consumer DAWs. why else would they call it protools? ....
ROTFL.........beauty!! thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #20
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Mike Derrick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ➑️
I know for sure that when I look at an equalizer curve and adjust, I tend to subconciously go by what looks right or wrong. Tall, high Q's don't look right, smiley face doesn't look right, so I'm likly to pull it back.

With just knobs, I just turn without worrying about it.

Surely this happens with every process when working. Even worse if you started out using DAWs rather than a less visual medium. You're accustomed to the way certain parameter movements look in a particular DAW.
Hmmm, interesting point, but I'd say it's not comletely true for me. I tweak things such as eq curves until they sound right,...I don't care what they look like on the screen graphics. However I often close my eyes while navigating parameters,...so perhaps that inversely proves your point,...that the graphics are a visual distraction?
Old 2nd December 2008 | Show parent
  #21
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🎧 10 years
In my experience, the different DAWs do have different sounds to them.

Logic has a sort of high-end sheen to it, a kind of smoothness. I dig it!

Protools and Digital Performer are both fairly neutral.

Protools LE is kind of clinical/harsh to my ears, more so than DP.

The sound engines are different -- why wouldn't they have different sounds to them?
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepwise Sound ➑️
In my experience, the different DAWs do have different sounds to them.

Logic has a sort of high-end sheen to it, a kind of smoothness. I dig it!

Protools and Digital Performer are both fairly neutral.

Protools LE is kind of clinical/harsh to my ears, more so than DP.

The sound engines are different -- why wouldn't they have different sounds to them?
Yeah, flip the phase and they all null at the end right?
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #23
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Goldfish's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Derrick ➑️
However I often close my eyes while navigating parameters,...so perhaps that inversely proves your point,...that the graphics are a visual distraction?
Closing your eyes to listen when working in DAWs is more often than not a very good thing. I use a quick key set up for a blank screensaver when it's time for critical listening. Something about all that visual stimuli seems to get in the way of aural acuity somehow.
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #24
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primitive's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Makes kind of sense...

I premix in the DAW and then send up to 16 channels to the desk and sweeten with eq and do the leveling and pan. Once a singer redid his performance after the song was mixed - I liked the mix so I was kind of sad that it was gone.
So I redid the analog mix (the premix in the daw didn't change except of the vocals) and it was exactly the same - I was a/b ing it and couldnt hear a difference! I never looked to the screen though.

Of course I also did the same thing with another song and the two mixes were'nt exactly the same - but it is possible to archieve.
So maybe all this graphics are distracting?

andi
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #25
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Well I don't know about the "PTLE doesn't sound as good as Logic and etc"... but I know that many professionals such as Charles Dye says he can produce the same results with LE that he can achieve with HD.

I tell ya what, in the next couple of days, I will take some basic tracks and mix in both DAWs and let you guys evaluate.
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 10 years
My protools sounds way too muddy, anyone want to trade me?


...that was joke...unless you have PTHD and still want to trade me...

PS: I did not mean this to mean that PTHD sounds better than LE, I was just trying to not question anybodies stupidity if they wanted to trade me HD for LE and then maybe question it later. That part was also a joke though.

point being: I don't think DAWs color the sound.
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfish ➑️
Closing your eyes to listen when working in DAWs is more often than not a very good thing. I use a quick key set up for a blank screensaver when it's time for critical listening. Something about all that visual stimuli seems to get in the way of aural acuity somehow.
Exactly what I do.
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
I would LOVE to see someone name even one feature that Pro Tools HD has that will produce a more "warm" "vintage" or "polished" sound than any other DAW, including PTLE. Those are terms that mean very little, objectively speaking. There are plenty of differences between LE and HD, and everything else, but I mean come on, warmer sound? Workflow, sync capabilities, 5.1/7.1, additional voices, inputs, outputs, busses, VCA masters, automation options, external control, Machine Control, Time Code, sure those are differences, but will it get you a more vintage sound?
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbc459 ➑️
I would LOVE to see someone name even one feature that Pro Tools HD has that will produce a more "warm" "vintage" or "polished" sound than any other DAW, including PTLE. Those are terms that mean very little, objectively speaking. There are plenty of differences between LE and HD, and everything else, but I mean come on, warmer sound? Workflow, sync capabilities, 5.1/7.1, additional voices, inputs, outputs, busses, VCA masters, automation options, external control, Machine Control, Time Code, sure those are differences, but will it get you a more vintage sound?

Well said

Back to making music............
Old 3rd December 2008 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbc459 ➑️
I would LOVE to see someone name even one feature that Pro Tools HD has that will produce a more "warm" "vintage" or "polished" sound than any other DAW, including PTLE. Those are terms that mean very little, objectively speaking. There are plenty of differences between LE and HD, and everything else, but I mean come on, warmer sound? Workflow, sync capabilities, 5.1/7.1, additional voices, inputs, outputs, busses, VCA masters, automation options, external control, Machine Control, Time Code, sure those are differences, but will it get you a more vintage sound?
woops, I didn't mean to make my last post make it seem like the color was different, I was just saying that I would like to trade my LE for someones HD and made a joke about my LE system sounding muddy. haha
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