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Windows 11 and Pro Audio
Old 25th June 2021
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Windows 11 and Pro Audio

Will Windows 11 be considerate to low latency audio?
https://www.cnet.com/news/release-da...u-can-install/

This was the idea behind BeOS
https://elk.audio/audio-os/

Even Universal Audio has announced their Luna DAW as MAC Only.
Old 25th June 2021
  #2
I am assuming that nothing fundamental will change with regards to audio or driver technology.

I'm pretty sure there would be widespread coverage and considerable angst amongst developers and manufacturers if there was to be any significant changes.
Old 25th June 2021
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I've been wondering this all day. I wonder if our friend Pete will chime in...
Old 25th June 2021 | Show parent
  #4
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thedberg's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathbyguitar ➡️
I've been wondering this all day. I wonder if our friend Pete will chime in...
Check the Windows 10 thread. He communicates about 11 there.
Old 25th June 2021
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
A bit surprised that 8th gen Intel chip required
Old 25th June 2021
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
It sounds like Windows 11 basically just says "screw you" to the low-end computer users.
Old 26th June 2021 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon ➡️
A bit surprised that 8th gen Intel chip required
bummer . so my 6700k , which runs still fine , is out .same for the HP ZBook G2 and Asus with 4core I7. W10 runs still ok here on a C2Duo Acer laptop
Old 26th June 2021
  #8
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro ➡️
Even Universal Audio has announced their Luna DAW as MAC Only.
This is just to make development easier. MacOS is much less efficient than Windows for audio.

Alistair
Old 26th June 2021
  #9
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I haven't been doing DAW testing on 11 to date, but will do some. I don't expect any negative changes for pro audio work. There have been general performance improvements all around. I need to test to see what impact (if any) those have on DAW usage.

Almost everyone using Windows for DAW work uses ASIO. We haven't changed anything there.

There are some fast file IO features I want to talk to some companies about. DirectStorage was designed for games, but it may be useful for huge sample libraries or for other disk-intensive work. TBD.

If anyone does something like a before/after DAWbench test, LMK. I do like to look out for this to make sure we get better and not worse.

Pete
Old 26th June 2021
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
@ Psychlist1972 : Any developments on the new (UWP) MIDI API? Last I checked it was still not available in most DAWs and I see people complain about its lack of compatibility and stability.

By far the main reason I'm interested in it is for multi-client MIDI capabilities.
(Unfortunately most manufacturers of MIDI gear nowadays rely on the MME class compliant MIDI driver in Windows, which lacks multi-client support, so it can only be used by one app at a time.)
Old 27th June 2021
  #11
I'm a bit surprised that my ~2 year old Intel Core i7-8809G machine with 4TB of RAID0 SSD M.2 storage and 32GB RAM can't run Win11 according to the PC Health Check tool.

Curious. The bar must be set quite high! Guess I'll just sit on WIn10x64 until 2025 then ....
Old 27th June 2021 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal ➡️
Curious. The bar must be set quite high!
It's probably a lack of TPM 2.0 hardware security chip on your motherboard that makes it ineligible. Or check if you have Secure Boot enabled in your BIOS, maybe it won't see the chip if you've disabled it.
Old 27th June 2021
  #13
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fireberd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
FYI, for those with Dell PC's, here is the link to a list of Dell's tested for Win 11.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/e...SVBUSU9OU3xoSw
Old 27th June 2021 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyneRyder ➡️
lack of TPM 2.0
It was worth a check. TPM2.0 is enabled in BIOS. Present and operating happily according to Device Manager.

My CPU doesn't appear in their supported CPU listings for Win11 for some reason. It's a 2018 release chip, so not exactly old. It's a Hades Canyon NUC with the Intel+AMD almost-SoC implementation. Specifically an Intel Core i7-8809G Processor with Radeon RX Vega M GH graphics so maybe Microsoft just forgot about this weird Intel/AMD love-child CPU+GPU in their development?

Still, odd to drop support for a CPU / NUC that is still available and selling to this day. Oh well, will see what happens over time I guess.
Old 27th June 2021 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal ➡️
It was worth a check. TPM2.0 is enabled in BIOS. Present and operating happily according to Device Manager.

My CPU doesn't appear in their supported CPU listings for Win11 for some reason. It's a 2018 release chip, so not exactly old. It's a Hades Canyon NUC with the Intel+AMD almost-SoC implementation. Specifically an Intel Core i7-8809G Processor with Radeon RX Vega M GH graphics so maybe Microsoft just forgot about this weird Intel/AMD love-child CPU+GPU in their development?

Still, odd to drop support for a CPU / NUC that is still available and selling to this day. Oh well, will see what happens over time I guess.
I'll check on that one. Most 8th gen stuff is supported, but maybe this one has some weirdness about it.

Pete
Old 27th June 2021 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal ➡️
My CPU doesn't appear in their supported CPU listings for Win11 for some reason....
Oh wow, you're right. I'd read that every 8th Gen chip and newer would work, but it seems there's exceptions even to that. Urgh, the initial excitement of Windows 11 & the cleaner UI is fading, now its starting to feel like a mess with a lot of constraints.
Old 27th June 2021 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal ➡️
It was worth a check. TPM2.0 is enabled in BIOS. Present and operating happily according to Device Manager.

My CPU doesn't appear in their supported CPU listings for Win11 for some reason. It's a 2018 release chip, so not exactly old. It's a Hades Canyon NUC with the Intel+AMD almost-SoC implementation. Specifically an Intel Core i7-8809G Processor with Radeon RX Vega M GH graphics so maybe Microsoft just forgot about this weird Intel/AMD love-child CPU+GPU in their development?

Still, odd to drop support for a CPU / NUC that is still available and selling to this day. Oh well, will see what happens over time I guess.
This is likely a miss on our part Can you file a feedback hub entry saying that the CPU should be supported and on our list and then send me a link? The team specifically asked for that.

Thanks.

Pete
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
This is likely a miss on our part Can you file a feedback hub entry saying that the CPU should be supported and on our list and then send me a link? The team specifically asked for that.
Done Pete. Details PMed.
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal ➡️
Done Pete. Details PMed.
Thanks. I really appreciate it.
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireberd ➡️
FYI, for those with Dell PC's, here is the link to a list of Dell's tested for Win 11.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/e...SVBUSU9OU3xoSw
My 2017 XPS 9365 is not on the list, even though the i7-7y75 meets the requirements.
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #21
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fireberd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstatic ➡️
My 2017 XPS 9365 is not on the list, even though the i7-7y75 meets the requirements.
A 7th gen does not meet Microsoft's currently published specs. MINIMUM is an 8th gen Intel CPU.

My 3 year old Dell Inspiron 5577 has a 7th gen CPU and sadly not compatible. It meets the TPM 2.0 requirement, not CPU.
Old 28th June 2021
  #22
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
So even though it can technically run it, it misses out for a completely arbitrary reason? If I wanted that, I'd be using an Apple machine!

I'll just wait until someone creates a workaround.
Old 28th June 2021
  #23
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Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Update on Windows 11 minimum system requirements

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-in...-requirements/

Pete
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #24
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstatic ➡️
So even though it can technically run it, it misses out for a completely arbitrary reason? If I wanted that, I'd be using an Apple machine!

I'll just wait until someone creates a workaround.
One of the benefits of drawing cutoffs for processors is you can start to build applications to take advantage of newer processor instruction sets. It may seem arbitrary but it'll allow developers who are writing applications for Windows 11 to make better assumptions over the supported processor instruction sets.

Given the trends in software though, who knows how it'll pan out. With how pervasive Electron is in applications nowadays it seems like companies would rather conserve developer time over making better use of processor time.
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerwylie ➡️
One of the benefits of drawing cutoffs for processors is you can start to build applications to take advantage of newer processor instruction sets. It may seem arbitrary but it'll allow developers who are writing applications for Windows 11 to make better assumptions over the supported processor instruction sets.

Given the trends in software though, who knows how it'll pan out. With how pervasive Electron is in applications nowadays it seems like companies would rather conserve developer time over making better use of processor time.
For the typical consumer apps, PWAs, Electron, etc. are all fine. Even our new Android subsystem will cover many of them.

For big creative/productivity etc. apps, though, counting on some min instruction sets can really help. Same with games.

Not saying that is all/some/any of the decision criteria here, but it's a useful point. Official info is here:
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-in...-requirements/

Aside:

On the security side, many people don't think about ransomware until they get hit with it. Having all your personal data, music projects, etc. encrypted by a third party until you pay hundreds, thousands (or in the case of businesses) millions of dollars is a huge problem. This can even impact people with networks in the home or studio, even if they don't actually surf with their older unsupported PCs. Not everyone on your network is necessarily as fastidious about how they use things as you are, and most folks never bother to update router firmware, and more.

Pete
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #26
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
For the typical consumer apps, PWAs, Electron, etc. are all fine. Even our new Android subsystem will cover many of them.
I just miss the days when I could run text editors without having to load an instance of chromium lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
For big creative/productivity etc. apps, though, counting on some min instruction sets can really help. Same with games.

Not saying that is all/some/any of the decision criteria here, but it's a useful point. Official info is here:
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-in...-requirements/

Pete
For sure, I've been in the software domain of things for a while and while that decision making can be arbitrary, there are definite instances where it makes sense.
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerwylie ➡️
I just miss the days when I could run text editors without having to load an instance of chromium lol.
Yeah. As far as rendering engines go, it's not exactly lightweight :D

FWIW, Teams client is built on Electron. Makes sense for x-plat stuff.

Pete
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #28
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
Yeah. As far as rendering engines go, it's not exactly lightweight :D

FWIW, Teams client is built on Electron. Makes sense for x-plat stuff.

Pete
Teams is also tied into Sharepoint, it's the true double threat lol. It is useful when making sure my work laptop's fans still work.

I really want to see what kind of improvements we can see in DAWs when they start taking advantage of what these new processors offer. Apple's definitely going to be taking advantage of their new chips within Logic.
Old 28th June 2021
  #29
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My 8th Gen Intel 8700 with Gigabyte Z370 won't support Windows 11? The health app is telling me TPM 2.0 isn't available. This "more open platform" is going to be an expensive upgrade at some point.

D
Old 28th June 2021 | Show parent
  #30
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dor ➡️
My 8th Gen Intel 8700 with Gigabyte Z370 won't support Windows 11? The health app is telling me TPM 2.0 isn't available. This "more open platform" is going to be an expensive upgrade at some point.

D
My Z370 w/ an 8700k supports it - I just had to go into the UEFI and enable it. Might be worth checking out depending on your motherboard.
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