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Yamaha n Series
Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4591
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios ➡️
Thanks for the info Kire.

What year Mac are you using?
Late reply sorry, I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016.

To be fair, I get like one kernel panic every week or so, I couple this to the Yamaha firewire driver (see below), is anyone else experiencing this?


Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
com.apple.driver.AppleFWOHCI(5.6)[9F35B1B2-293B-364F-9C50-9920C2E8B796]@0xffffff7f8653b000->0xffffff7f8655ffff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[1325E2A1-1CC0-36E0-8556-51247DD2CCC7]@0xffffff7f85895000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireFamily(4.7.3)[6C5BB689-FDCE-3F81-8585-459369DF8A3B]@0xffffff7f85eec000
jp.co.yamaha.driver.YamahaFWAudioDriver(1.4.3)[818862C9-15C9-043B-3BF5-AC4D034F6ED6]@0xffffff7f89d4c000->0xffffff7f89d82fff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOAudioFamily(206.5)[DC4BEB54-0CD5-3009-8D50-B2AC99A47C4A]@0xffffff7f85b7f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireFamily(4.7.3)[6C5BB689-FDCE-3F81-8585-459369DF8A3B]@0xffffff7f85eec000
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4592
Lives for gear
 
homestudioguy's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I’d still have mine if the digital conversion card was upgradeable.

I’d still have mine if the digital conversion card was upgradeable.
Old 23rd October 2020
  #4593
Here for the gear
Hi!

with a brand new MacBook on my hands, I finally have bought a Steinberg UR44C as replacement for my N12. I still have to decide wether I will totally abandon my N12 (feels painful) or use the UR44C as an interface between N12 and my MacBook. It will arrive tomorrow, and I'm wondering a few things:

1) can de DAW control section be used on new macOS Catalina? with the hardware MIDI cables maybe? in other words: Could it work without the 32bit driver?

2) how do the pre-amps of the N12 (older) compare to the (cheaper?) pre-amps of the UR44c? Does anyone know?

thanks (btw: never experienced any kernel panics on my MacBook 2014)
Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4594
Lives for gear
 
soundrage's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaartenWLierop ➡️
Hi!

with a brand new MacBook on my hands, I finally have bought a Steinberg UR44C as replacement for my N12. I still have to decide wether I will totally abandon my N12 (feels painful) or use the UR44C as an interface between N12 and my MacBook. It will arrive tomorrow, and I'm wondering a few things:

1) can de DAW control section be used on new macOS Catalina? with the hardware MIDI cables maybe? in other words: Could it work without the 32bit driver?

2) how do the pre-amps of the N12 (older) compare to the (cheaper?) pre-amps of the UR44c? Does anyone know?

thanks (btw: never experienced any kernel panics on my MacBook 2014)
I went through this last year, although I was already using the UR44 as a sort of mobile unit. I had upgraded to a new PC and bought the same brand firewire card (just PCIe instead of PCI) and could not get it to work without major problems so I'm not running my n12 now....very unfortunate.

The preamps in the UR44 were born out of the N Series....I do not know if they share the exact same circuitry but they sound very close to me. What is different is the DAC, and the n12 has a better DAC to my ears....which is of course subjective. The n12 DAC has a dynamic range of 114db, and I believe the UR44 is around 105db. Of course there is more to it than just dynamic range but I clearly recall a difference in sound. Not a huge difference but it was there. But the UR44 is a fine interface, especially for the price.

Sorry, can't help with any MAC questions, but you will for sure miss the n12. Absolute awesome piece of gear.
Old 2nd November 2020
  #4595
Lives for gear
 
Arseny's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
A friend of mine just bought a N12 for recording drums. Has anybody recorded drums with N12?

For which drum element would you bypass the internal preamps and use some external preamp? Would a stereo neve clone add something to the overheads?
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #4596
Here for the gear
 
I have the N12 for years and also a brandnew UR816C(for external hardware connectioons), and I use both, the N12 for recordings mostly and it still sounds fantastic, to my ears just a bit better than the pre's from the UR816C.
ALl running just fine on latest W10 + Cubase 11.

Maybe a tip for users who have dropouts:
a few yeras back I bought a second videocard in my PC for a third screen. I bought a NVidia card and after that I had lots of Audio troubles. I swopped it for a chaep and simple Raedon card and everything went back to running smooth again.

And also this: Always fire up the N12 first before the PC. In the past I never had problems with turning on the N12 after the PC but since Windows10 this is the best and trouble-free way to run realtime audio with the N12.
When I do it the other way around I get dropouts. Maybe something to do with the wordclock in Windows.
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #4597
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stixstudios ➡️
So the n12 has 6 outs.

These are derived from the 5.1 surround outs. Is this true?

So the only way to "insert" some hardware into the chain, meaning to go out from my DAW to 2 channels, for instance (C) LS/RS then through my hardware effects then back into, lets say channels 9/10 and record that.

Initially I thought that I could come out through the Aux, but this doesn't work.

OR have I missed something obvious?

Cheers.
The only two outputs besides the mains are the AUX L+R that you can choose from in your DAW(in my case Cubase). I do this all the time to go to external hardware. The Monitor-outputs you mention are just hardware and not seen as supported outputports in the DAW.
From the AUX out you can go back from the hardware into any inputs channels.
Old 8th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4598
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Markwardt ➡️
I have owned the n12 for several years and have some questions which i have never seen specifically resolved in the many pages both here and elsewhere. This is probably because only Yamaha or Steinberg would know, and maybe they don't like to divulge some of the secret sauce, even if the product is 10 years old.
.
1. Are the EQ's modelled on any particular desk?- i see lots of "vintage 70's " type answers but nothing specific. Is it in fact, the Type II Eq algo or maybe the VCM Pultec clone on the 01v96?

2. REV-X reverb. Can the later MR816 plugin be tweaked to recognise the N12, possibly offering some more parameters for the Reverb?

3. Sweet Spot Preset/guts detailed info. I have seen another few questions about this but the answers are as vague as Yamaha's 1 page info from their old download section. Not even sure if it is still available. Basically all the presets give you some idea of their function but some, esp the later ones on the list give you no idea about how they change when using the morph control, or even what kind of compressor they might be. Soft or Hard, VCM or stock 01v etc channel compressor. Anyone with both units care to comment?

4. Can the bass management be disabled in some driver or diagnostic routine? I sure would like to have 6 FR outs from the n12. I know the mr816 has these but still..

5. In Cubase 5, when you press the Hardware Mix button (and others) on the DAW Remote Control section, cubase registers this with a MIDI spike on the Transport indicating a message. If you try to record or monitor this it doesn't show up, in fact the record track disappears as if there was no message. I know that this is likely ignored by cubase's record section as it is metadata for the N12 Remote, but as the Hardware Mix button is asking for a particular config change re channels in cubase I thought it might be interesting to intercept this message and change its function to alter the exact channels or other config to suit different setups or situations. As it is Hardware Mix function is nice but limits you to that global preset function. Are there scripts running in Cubase 5 that i can break into in order to look under the hood?
I'm a patient man, but even i despair at the chances of this thing ever getting hacked for other DAWs etc. C'mon man!
Old 8th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4599
Here for the gear
 
Also would like to know if anyone ever got cubase 5 to work on w10. I'd like to buy a more recent copy that does run on w10, but what is the absolute minimum version you'd need to get in order to use all of the features of the mixer, including 5.1 surround? By this I mean any of the older post 5 versions. did they throw in surround with AI or other ghetto versions after some time?
Old 8th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4600
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arseny ➡️
A friend of mine just bought a N12 for recording drums. Has anybody recorded drums with N12?

For which drum element would you bypass the internal preamps and use some external preamp? Would a stereo neve clone add something to the overheads?
I think the Mixer preamps are too slow to present a precise transient response. This can result in a spongy feel to drums. If you have to use the internals for percussion - I'd say maybe the snare and the overheads were the priority to bypass
Old 8th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4601
Lives for gear
 
Arseny's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Markwardt ➡️
I think the Mixer preamps are too slow to present a precise transient response. This can result in a spongy feel to drums. If you have to use the internals for percussion - I'd say maybe the snare and the overheads were the priority to bypass
thanks.
which preamps would you recommend for this purpose?
Old 8th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4602
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arseny ➡️
thanks.
which preamps would you recommend for this purpose?
Hmm.
I would avoid any slow slew rate pre's with the same design- i forget what the design is called- probably to do with the opamps or feedback design of the circuit. a lot of 70's 80's designs are similar in semi pro desks.
However, seeing as Yamaha advertised the desk as having a British sound, it would seem odd to want to use one and not use them lol. They're not wrong. I found that the design did not stack very well when tracking and I had to resort to post-recording tricks to try and restore transients.
That said, recording with a fast slew rate pre can also be the cause of other troubles with peaks and so is often paired with a fast limiter which can add to the cost (and the characteristics of the limiter will then determine the actual transient) If you record the drum at a sensible level at 24 bit you can always tame the peaks afterwards if required which is easier than adding stuff that isn't there. Without a limiter, If you are old enough to remember always recording at 16 bit then then the same rules of headroom will apply. Ironic! Also, the Yamaha doesn't like loud signal peaks. You need to run the inputs lower than you'd think. It will still sound ok if it's comfortably above the noise floor but quite low at 24 bit
If you have the cash and need more than 2 channels- the API 3124+ would be a great choice (or API clones) If you don't, and only need 2 then maybe an FMR RNP or two could work nicely. I hear good things about the Dave Hill Europa 1, Presonus ADL 600(variable slew rate).
The most important thing is to have the flexibility to choose the right tool for the job at source. Maybe only 1 channel is what you need.
I'm not too up to date on the latest mic pre's so maybe starting a topic on fast slew pre's on GS is what you'd benefit from getting some fresh feedback on. hope this helps

Last edited by Cyril Markwardt; 8th February 2021 at 08:20 PM.. Reason: ******ation
Old 9th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4603
Lives for gear
 
Arseny's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Markwardt ➡️
Hmm.
I would avoid any slow slew rate pre's with the same design- i forget what the design is called- probably to do with the opamps or feedback design of the circuit. a lot of 70's 80's designs are similar in semi pro desks.
However, seeing as Yamaha advertised the desk as having a British sound, it would seem odd to want to use one and not use them lol. They're not wrong. I found that the design did not stack very well when tracking and I had to resort to post-recording tricks to try and restore transients.
That said, recording with a fast slew rate pre can also be the cause of other troubles with peaks and so is often paired with a fast limiter which can add to the cost (and the characteristics of the limiter will then determine the actual transient) If you record the drum at a sensible level at 24 bit you can always tame the peaks afterwards if required which is easier than adding stuff that isn't there. Without a limiter, If you are old enough to remember always recording at 16 bit then then the same rules of headroom will apply. Ironic! Also, the Yamaha doesn't like loud signal peaks. You need to run the inputs lower than you'd think. It will still sound ok if it's comfortably above the noise floor but quite low at 24 bit
If you have the cash and need more than 2 channels- the API 3124+ would be a great choice (or API clones) If you don't, and only need 2 then maybe an FMR RNP or two could work nicely. I hear good things about the Dave Hill Europa 1, Presonus ADL 600(variable slew rate).
The most important thing is to have the flexibility to choose the right tool for the job at source. Maybe only 1 channel is what you need.
I'm not too up to date on the latest mic pre's so maybe starting a topic on fast slew pre's on GS is what you'd benefit from getting some fresh feedback on. hope this helps
I've sent a yamaha N12 to my old friend, a drummer living in other country. We're trying to build a recording setup for online collaboration. He's on budget. Here in my small studio I actually already have some nice pre's, but my room is small and I never record drums, no experience. I actually had Europa 1 and sold it. A very nice preamp, amazing flexibility, but I had too many preamps. Anyway, FMR looks promising for my friend's budget, thanks for the tip.
Old 9th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4604
Here for the gear
 
As I said I still work with the N12.
Using Windows 10 20H2 and Cubase 11.
But I also have my old Cubase 5-32bit installed on the same PC and that alsol works as it should.
I sometimes use it to load an old project which was made with C5.
I never have used 5.1 surround.
Old 10th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4605
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabooter ➡️
As I said I still work with the N12.
Using Windows 10 20H2 and Cubase 11.
But I also have my old Cubase 5-32bit installed on the same PC and that alsol works as it should.
I sometimes use it to load an old project which was made with C5.
I never have used 5.1 surround.
Interesting. so you can't load up c5 files in 11 huh? Looks like i'm going to have to build a ghetto pc to transfer my old files. as for 5.1 i know it's all a bit of a gimmick but it still comes in handy for installation work- or at least it did
Old 10th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4606
Here for the gear
 
Yes I can load them old projects in C11, but my C5 is 32bits, so a lot of plugins I used back then(which I still have) and which are 32bit do not work in C11 which is 64bit.
I only use C5 when I need the exact old project-mix, for special purposes.
Old 10th February 2021 | Show parent
  #4607
Here for the gear
 
I started C5-32bit up for you and made a new project with a template from the N12 which in this case I took a 5.1 surround project, and then Cubase makes a blank new project with all the ins and outs for 5.1
So that should work.
The old Cubase PRO-5 software is still out there.
Old 13th March 2021
  #4608
Gear Head
 
Have a N12 which I'm v. happy with on my macbook 2012 sierra. Could anyone help me with this? I was trying to run a midi keyboard through the N12 it for use in Logic/Ableton 10 and can't seem to get it to work.
Thanks
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #4609
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I take it this is a MIDI KB without USB?

I haven't used my N12 for awhile, and had to pull it out and see the MIDI ports. (I didn't realize they were even there!)

It might be a Mac Audio MIDI setup connection. Open that up and see if you can connect the MIDI, I can't say I know how because I avoid MIDI connections, USB is much easier.
Old 14th March 2021 | Show parent
  #4610
Gear Head
 
I'm trying out a number of different things. I can connect with USB but I really would like to get the MIDI cable connection to work to hook other stuff up in a different way. I checked Audio/MIDI setup but I dunno, it doesn't seem to be responding to anything really. I thought I would be able to "cable" up things in there........
Old 15th March 2021 | Show parent
  #4611
Here for the gear
 
I am using a midi keyboard and a soundmodule on the N12's midi busses to work with in Cubase, works just fine.
The midi ports automaticly appear in Cubase setup.
But also in other standalone programs such as Kontakt or any Vsti I can see the midiports from the N12.
So nothing special to do.
Did you use apropiate midi cables? (not any DIN connector-cable I mean)
Old 6th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4612
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hi, is there any official info on the Catalina FW Driver development? I mean, at least saying they will not release one at all (forced 64bits and all)?

I'd love to hear some input on this.

Cheers!
Old 6th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4613
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam_e_oveR ➡️
Hi, is there any official info on the Catalina FW Driver development? I mean, at least saying they will not release one at all (forced 64bits and all)?

I'd love to hear some input on this.

Cheers!
It will not be updated for Catalina, end of life
See for example https://www.facebook.com/Steinberg/p...6820378271045/
Old 7th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4614
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kire ➡️
It will not be updated for Catalina, end of life
See for example https://www.facebook.com/Steinberg/p...6820378271045/
That is sad to hear. What to even do with thing?

I'm using an Apollo now but my N12 just sits here and I do miss the connectivity it brought to the table.

It was a great piece of equipment.
Old 7th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4615
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kire ➡️
It will not be updated for Catalina, end of life
See for example https://www.facebook.com/Steinberg/p...6820378271045/
Thank you so much for that link Kire.

It's really sad to hear they officially dropped the 64bit driver development though, it would have given the product a new life.. I really enjoy working with the N12, but it's (or soon will be) complicated to keep it running with no modern support.

I guess I'll keep my Mojave running for a little longer
Old 7th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4616
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gam_e_oveR ➡️
Thank you so much for that link Kire.

It's really sad to hear they officially dropped the 64bit driver development though, it would have given the product a new life.. I really enjoy working with the N12, but it's (or soon will be) complicated to keep it running with no modern support.

I guess I'll keep my Mojave running for a little longer
Yes, me too, I've kept Mojave on a laptop. And I bought a firewire-card for an older but still good Windows 10 machine, it's still working fine for me there but I see on the Steinberg forum that others have started to get problems also on Windows 10 (that driver is also not supported). I wish Steinberg/Yamaha could release the drivers as open source. It's very sad to have to throw away such nice hardware because of lack of software support.
Old 7th May 2021 | Show parent
  #4617
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kire ➡️
Yes, me too, I've kept Mojave on a laptop. And I bought a firewire-card for an older but still good Windows 10 machine, it's still working fine for me there but I see on the Steinberg forum that others have started to get problems also on Windows 10 (that driver is also not supported). I wish Steinberg/Yamaha could release the drivers as open source. It's very sad to have to throw away such nice hardware because of lack of software support.
Totally agree, it's well built hardware. The FW killed it for me. Maybe one day they will do something to bring it back to life, I would not mind using it as a hub for a home entertainment system.
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