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M1 Apple Silicon Experiences in Audio
Old 18th November 2020
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
docbop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Watched a Youtube of one of the well know tech reviewers and Apple fanboy and he was testing the new M1 laptop. For typical end user Apple own app's performance is better than Intel, but they are all lightweight app's and being Apple are rebuilt for Apple M1. He did some non-Apple apps and performance okay. The big difference was being he's mainly a Final Cut user so an application on par with Logic for computer demands then the story changed. He compared the M1 laptop to a 16" Intel MBP and rendering an small video. The fans in the Intel were running like crazy but it render the video drastically faster than the M1. Which is what I expected. The first rollout of the M1 computer are focused on the typical end user running lightweight app's. App that are typical spending more time waiting on the user to doing something than crunching code and doing a lot of I/O. I think needs a couple years of end users "beta" testing M1 as they working on next gen Apple silicon for real compute heavy applications like Final Cut, Logic and others. I think Apple will get there eventually, but Intel and AMD are going to be sitting still and will have new tech too.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
OMG !!!!

OK - I see what everyone is talking about! I watched the video of the MacMini M1 with 8 cores in Logic and so I searched preferences. In "Audio" Processing threads I just left it at Automatic. Looking at the dropdown I found you can tell it to use all 8 cores!!!!

I now get 128 tracks from the new bench mark and still have not hit the limit for the MBA M1 !!!! Thats at least 25% more than my i7 8 core imac! Holy Sh*(&*...
Holy f**k... I need to see some other reports here. This is unbelievable. I get 200 tracks ish... on my 16 core Mac Pro that's 10 times the cost.

not to happy right now (although excited about what the future brings, this is nuts)
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Head
Obviously Logic is gonna fly, I wonder how third party synths going to perform under Rosetta 2 or if they even going to work? Anybody installed any third party plugins on M1 Macs?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoobysnax ➑️
Holy f**k... I need to see some other reports here. This is unbelievable. I get 200 tracks ish... on my 16 core Mac Pro that's 10 times the cost.

not to happy right now (although excited about what the future brings, this is nuts)
Are you sure it is the same test, not to doubt you but I saw in post #254 with a 16 Core Mac Pro, and scores 310 tracks?

This test?

Anyone interested in my new benchmark to replace the dated Evan's test?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #65
Here for the gear
 
So what is the limit and is it getting real hot then?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uOpt ➑️
No, my understanding is that a pair of 1 high performance and 1 efficiency core are always coupled for the OS kernel scheduler to shuffle loads back and forth depending on what that load does. This is very visible to userland.
There was a time much earlier in the A-series where the performance/efficiency cores were so tightly coupled that the OS was only aware of them as one collective "core." That time has long since passed and now they're all completely independently schedulable.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I must admit I am surprised and somewhat stunned by the M1 MBA. To think of it as a Beta or V1 unit is correct but hasn't Apple been making CPUs for 10+ years - iPhone, iPad etc... Sure V1 - but with lots of heritage...

The raw power is great but as an ARM chip and with Apple being the maker of Logic all coded for M1 there is potential for serious gains in real time performance of VIs, plugins and straight super low RTL native audio recording (sub ms). I can already do recording at 32 samples 96kHz (Apogee EQ, 7th Heaven Reverb, host of Apple plugins) with built in Mic and less than 50% load on any core. My iMac can't do this with 7th Heaven reverb at all! Now I just need a driver to get a real interface hooked up... Could the MBA (or AS Mini) unseat my 27" iMac.... so far I reluctantly say - it could! Crazy...

Sure - there is a total place for the next higher power versions of these CPUs (and the current MacPros) - video and video rendering in particular probably big VI and VM users. but I remain stunned at how even the lowliest is now near the top of the sub $5K range today.

PS - My fan boy post before I corrected measurement errors - performance is still great but not as "blow away" as this post implies!

Last edited by ProPower; 20th November 2020 at 09:05 PM..
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
I now get 128 tracks from the new bench mark and still have not hit the limit for the MBA M1 !!!! Thats at least 25% more than my i7 8 core imac! Holy Sh*(&*...
Ah - now we're talking!

Say, would you be up to do a singlethread test as well? I've got one ready but will have to check with other plugins to see which seem to scale best.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
I now get 128 tracks from the new bench mark and still have not hit the limit for the MBA M1 !!!! Thats at least 25% more than my i7 8 core imac! Holy Sh*(&*...
What track count had you got up to on the 4 "performance" cores?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➑️
Are you sure it is the same test, not to doubt you but I saw in post #254 with a 16 Core Mac Pro, and scores 310 tracks?

This test?

Anyone interested in my new benchmark to replace the dated Evan's test?
I only get 120'ish on my 10 core iMP - 128, Medium process buffer, internal audio. Thats in the ballpark given the core count difference compared to a 16 core MP.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat1 ➑️
Starting to feel a bit silly spending so much on my 16" earlier this year

Apple really seem to have knocked it out of the park with these chips. Imagine how powerful the 16" will be when it arrives? And I'm sure it'll be really quiet.

The single core speed will be amazing for low latency work.
I know me too. I bought mine last December. What I really feel silly about is spending an extra $450 for the 2.4 cpu and 32 gigs ram, because I was planning to keep it for another 7 years like my last macbook pro now I'm already thinking about selling it and getting one of the apple silicon models to come out next year with 4 thunderbolt ports. Maybe a mini, maybe a 13" (14"?) with an external monitor, I don't think I'd do another 16", too big for portability.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #72
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Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by khollister ➑️
I only get 120'ish on my 10 core iMP - 128, Medium process buffer, internal audio. Thats in the ballpark given the core count difference compared to a 16 core MP.
Are you sure, the iMP is listed as approx 150 in the New benchmark thread?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
I must admit I am surprised and somewhat stunned by the M1 MBA. To think of it as a Beta or V1 unit is correct but hasn't Apple been making CPUs for 10+ years - iPhone, iPad etc... Sure V1 - but with lots of heritage...

The raw power is great but as an ARM chip and with Apple being the maker of Logic all coded for M1 there is potential for serious gains in real time performance of VIs, plugins and straight super low RTL native audio recording (sub ms). I can already do recording at 32 samples 96kHz (Apogee EQ, 7th Heaven Reverb, host of Apple plugins) with built in Mic and less than 50% load on any core. My iMac can't do this with 7th Heaven reverb at all! Now I just need a driver to get a real interface hooked up... Could the MBA (or AS Mini) unseat my 27" iMac.... so far I reluctantly say - it could! Crazy...

Sure - there is a total place for the next higher power versions of these CPUs (and the current MacPros) - video and video rendering in particular probably big VI and VM users. but I remain stunned at how even the lowliest is now near the top of the sub $5K range today.


Maybe i missed some of your posts, but can you confirm you can load 3rd party x86 plugins in logic which is non-x86?


And can you describe how is the ram usage if its 16ram limit?
Many of us rely on large sample libraries and 16gb ram limit , which is also shared with other apps because its "unifed" now means we get even less ram for sample instruments.

thx
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Yup ,that test. I get 200 give or take a couple. How the heck do you get 310? Somethings up, that' stop big a discrepancy.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➑️
Are you sure it is the same test, not to doubt you but I saw in post #254 with a 16 Core Mac Pro, and scores 310 tracks?

This test?

Anyone interested in my new benchmark to replace the dated Evan's test?
Yup, I get 200... How do you get 310? That's too big a discrepancy. Something must be different about our setups. I'm at 44k, and buffer size doesn't make a difference.
Old 18th November 2020
  #76
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Ok, here's a singlethread Logic benchmark test I just did. Anyone may feel free to check it out, but obviously I'd really like to see some M1 numbers.
The description inside the zip will hopefully be sufficient.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10IG...ew?usp=sharing
Thanks to everybody joining!

Fwiw, on my 2x2.66 5,1 MP I can activate 24 Space Designers (which is what I used for some reasons) at 44.1/64, further buffersizes to come.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
- Yes 3rd party working fine so far, Fabfilter, 7th Heaven, SoundRadix, Apogee
- RAM usage holding around 6GB (this machine has 8GB)
- Will take a look at single core benchmark this afternoon
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck ➑️
Ok, here's a singlethread Logic benchmark test I just did. Anyone may feel free to check it out, but obviously I'd really like to see some M1 numbers.
The description inside the zip will hopefully be sufficient.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10IG...ew?usp=sharing
Thanks to everybody joining!

Fwiw, on my 2x2.66 5,1 MP I can activate 24 Space Designers (which is what I used for some reasons) at 44.1/64, further buffersizes to come.
I get 52 ish before any glitches, at 44.1 / 64, on my 16 core nMP

I think this new M1 is going to crush this test.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoobysnax ➑️
I get 52 ish before any glitches, at 44.1 / 64, on my 16 core nMP

I think this new M1 is going to crush this test.
Thanks! That was along of what I sort of would expect from your machine. Mind checking at 32?

And yes, I'd really like to see the results of the M1. Awaiting your results @ ProPower - and thanks already!
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Single core test on M1 hits 150 with CPU at 100%. No issues but did run out of inserts :-) 256 buffer

More like 45 at 32 buffer

Will do 80 at 64 buffer but CPU shows maxed out ~ 62
Attached Thumbnails
M1 Apple Silicon Experiences in Audio-screen-shot-2020-11-18-1.47.16-pm.jpg  

Last edited by ProPower; 20th November 2020 at 09:06 PM..
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
Single core test on M1 hits 150 with CPU at 100%. No issues but did run out of inserts :-)
Uhm - at what buffersize?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #82
Gear Maniac
 
I am really excited to see what Apple can do with their chips in a mac pro, or an imac (pro). But honestly the way these tests are looking, a 13" or mini may be all I'd ever need.


I wonder if latency is improved at all with the M1 computers?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
Single core test on M1 hits 150 with CPU at 100%. No issues but did run out of inserts :-) 256 buffer

More like 45 at 32 buffer
Oh, I see, you've edited your post - so forget about my last one.
At 32, that is absolutely incredible. When I switch to 32, my cheesegrater is starting to crap out at 11 already, not even half of what I'm getting at 64.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendocino beano ➑️
I wonder if latency is improved at all with the M1 computers?
Latency hasn't got much to do with the computer. 32 samples are 32 samples and proper/bad interface drivers are proper/bad interface drivers.

Quite obviously, plenty of horsepower helps to keep buffersizes low.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
Will do 80 at 64 buffer but CPU shows maxed till get to like 62
Wow, really!
As far as the CPU meter goes: That's why I said in my info text that you actually need to listen. Not only is the CPU meter notoriously inaccurate when it comes to the live thread, the error messages are as well.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
OMG !!!!

OK - I see what everyone is talking about! I watched the video of the MacMini M1 with 8 cores in Logic and so I searched preferences. In "Audio" Processing threads I just left it at Automatic. Looking at the dropdown I found you can tell it to use all 8 cores!!!!

I now get 128 tracks from the new bench mark and still have not hit the limit for the MBA M1 !!!! Thats at least 25% more than my i7 8 core imac! Holy Sh*(&*...
Ok... now this is more in line what I was expecting to see.... Getting the settings tweaked was what I was hoping would to the trick as I said in my last post.

wow.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Was listening the whole time :-)
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
Single core test on M1 hits 150 with CPU at 100%. No issues but did run out of inserts :-) 256 buffer

More like 45 at 32 buffer

Will do 80 at 64 buffer but CPU shows maxed till get to like 62
The guy who created this New Logic Pro Benchmark has this as the suggested criteria for comparative measure:

44.1
128 Buffer
Built in Audio

So to clarify.. with these settings, you are getting how many tracks before glitchy playback with "8 cores" enabled?
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook ➑️
The guy who created this New Logic Pro Benchmark has this as the suggested criteria for comparative measure:

44.1
128 Buffer
Built in Audio

So to clarify.. with these settings, you are getting how many tracks before glitchy playback?
Would like to know as well - but my personal preference was lower buffer sizes.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower ➑️
Single core test on M1 hits 150 with CPU at 100%. No issues but did run out of inserts :-) 256 buffer

More like 45 at 32 buffer

Will do 80 at 64 buffer but CPU shows maxed till get to like 62
My 16 core nMP is getting around 30 at 32 buffer.

This right here is a HUGE advantage for AS... The ability to keep buffer low as plugins pile up, and continue to have low buffer while recording new parts, etc. I'm pretty pissed that apple played the pro users with the nMP. Quite a burn. Obviously, my machine still outdoes the new ones, especially in the RAM department, but the ****ing cost / performance ratio has just been flipped on it's head... Literally, 1/10th the cost, and it's around 70-75% multi-c0re performance, and WAY better single core. Insane.

Guess I won't be keeping this 2020 MP for as long as I was hoping...
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