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Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #391
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
Using a Mac mini M1 16GB RAM with the latest version of Pro Tools. It is not as stable as I would like for whatever reason.
PT is finnicky enough on supported systems. A lot of your issues sound a bit like they could be interface related, though. (Even though they manifest as DAW issues.) What are you using?
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #392
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Our audio interface is an Apollo X6, and the issue occurred with and without the Apollo interface as the playback device. It really seems a bit slow here and there in ways we have never seen before. Pro Tools is rock solid with absolutely no problems whatsoever on Intel based iMac with Catalina. We have not had any issues with Pro Tools running flawlessly for close to 10 years, issues that do rarely come up are operating system related, and we either use Avid or Apollo audio interfaces. We understand it’s not a supported setup and we are reporting our experience to be helpful to others.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #393
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by croutonsandmango ➡️
PT is finnicky enough on supported systems. A lot of your issues sound a bit like they could be interface related, though. (Even though they manifest as DAW issues.) What are you using?
Apollo X6 with the latest firmware and UAD software released a day or so. The issue also occurred when using the internal audio interface, but we were going to test with Avid interfaces but have not had the chance to do so.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #394
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
Apollo X6 with the latest firmware and UAD software released a day or so. The issue also occurred when using the internal audio interface, but we were going to test with Avid interfaces but have not had the chance to do so.
Built in will have issues for sure. IME the only PT Vanilla interfaces I haven't had issues with are Lynx / RME -- both very stable at low buffers. Lots of issues with UAD. Hopefully the AVID ones run well but I wouldn't be surprised if they had issues, I wonder if they're coding drivers in house or not...

You can try experimenting with increasing the buffer and the "ignore playback errors" function to see if you can get some more stability if you haven't already.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #395
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
Using a Mac mini M1 16GB RAM with the latest version of Pro Tools. It is not as stable as I would like for whatever reason. Had 40 Acustica Audio plugins loaded and only had 7% overall resource usage. Everything was running fine, no issues, several tracks. Then out of no where it would not play, DAE error claiming out of CPU. Removing all plugins and still the same error, would not play even a blank session. Has happened a few times, but closing and restarting Pro Tools gets things back to normal resolving the issue. Every so often Pro Tools seems to hang, again a restart fixes this. Will try other DAWS. Keeping in mind the M1 is not supported by Avid just yet, hopefully they can address these issues, otherwise it’s a very capable setup. Davinci Resolve has been flawless with all sorts of footage and scenarios.
Say that again please, i didnt understand. 40 instances of Acoustica Audio and 7% cpu usage?!?! What?? On my gen 4 i7 4.0ghz i can barely use 10!!

Please test this in another daw!! I want to know. Sprinkle the system with AA plugins! If it handles them that well im getting one now!!
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #396
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
So after a few weeks with the new MBP the dust settles and to be honest with myself, you can't use this for serious audio work right now.

Basically nothing works native, maybe if you only use up to 10 plugins then you can get along with them in Rosetta, but a serious studio environment with a few 100 plugins is a nightmare.

This is a very long story very short.

DOn't want to rant about the computer, it's super fast, but for serious audio work it'S a long way to go from here.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #397
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trancekid ➡️
Basically nothing works native, maybe if you only use up to 10 plugins then you can get along with them in Rosetta, but a serious studio environment with a few 100 plugins is a nightmare.
I agree. As someone who traded in his Intel MBP for a M1, my recommendation is to wait 6 months for software to catch up to Big Sur and at least a year for M1 to catch on.

I use Logic and a handful of third-party plugins (Izotope, Valhalla, Waves). While it's mostly stable I had to muck around a lot to get the plugins validated and there's random crashes here and there. I can't imagine a pro studio using one just yet.
Old 18th December 2020
  #398
Lives for gear
 
Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Are you guys using the new M1s as your main and/or sole machine? I would be surprised if you took that jump.

I have an M1 MBP but as 2nd studio machine to use for video editing, light audio work and other stuff. I’ve no expectations to be using to its full extent until software catches up. It’s more as a testing ground whilst that happens
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #399
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niclas.G ➡️
Say that again please, i didnt understand. 40 instances of Acoustica Audio and 7% cpu usage?!?! What?? On my gen 4 i7 4.0ghz i can barely use 10!!

Please test this in another daw!! I want to know. Sprinkle the system with AA plugins! If it handles them that well im getting one now!!
I was about to say the same thing.... 40 AA Plugins at only 7%???
I’ll be buying one today if it’s confirmed because AA are renown for being CPU hogs.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #400
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tansao ➡️
I was about to say the same thing.... 40 AA Plugins at only 7%???
I’ll be buying one today if it’s confirmed because AA are renown for being CPU hogs.
Seems a bit optimistic, but the AA dev has confirmed here and on the AA fb page that he was able to run 76 instances of Gainstation Boost running native on M1 (MacMini/44.1/512 buffer)
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #401
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➡️
Are you guys using the new M1s as your main and/or sole machine? I would be surprised if you took that jump.

I have an M1 MBP but as 2nd studio machine to use for video editing, light audio work and other stuff. I’ve no expectations to be using to its full extent until software catches up. It’s more as a testing ground whilst that happens
Agreed. I think that's also one of the main reasons why Apple started the rollout from the very bottom of the range. Users of low-end machines typically don't have as much need for specialised 3rd party software compatibility, aside from pretty mainstream things. So it was a good way to get Apple Silicon launched, with plenty of time for developers to start getting ready for when the bigger machines arrive.

I think it's already pretty impressive you can run any kind of DAWs at all so early on, especially compared to the PPC to Intel transition. Back then it was pointless to even try running a DAW under the original Rosetta - from memory, I'm not sure they even worked at all. But even so it's not the wisest move yet, unless you've really thoroughly checked that everything you need for your work is functional.

I've seen at least one music producer on YouTube who did make the jump already, but he tested all the 3rd party stuff he uses first and decided it was good enough to go. Also, making the transition publicly on his YouTube channel certainly seems to have been a good way to get record numbers of views and more subscribers, so... perhaps it was a good move for him for other reasons too.

At this still early stage, I think there are really only a few best-case scenarios for getting an M1 Mac for our line of work:

- If your setup involves only software (and audio hardware) which already works fine, then you should be OK. But it's not exactly easy to be sure of that yet, because even if things do appear to work under Rosetta 2, there's no guarantee you won't run into bugs that show up after more regular use than just a quick test. Some of which could be showstoppers. The only saving grace is that at least (unlike in usual circumstances) you can almost be 100% sure the bugs are because of translation, and they'll disappear when the native versions are released. But of course, that doesn't help right now...

- If you are someone who uses Logic Pro with barely anything other than stock plug ins, then you're probably set. For example, singer-songwriters who self-record using a simple audio interface. I imagine having an M1 MacBook Air with no fan noise whatsoever (and which also performs extremely well) would be a huge advantage for that kind of work. And given how powerful it is, quite a bargain too.

- If you aren't replacing your main music workstation machine(s) at all, then you're also good to go. There's no reason why you can't start using any of the M1 Macs for certain things already, even just as a testbed for compatibility and doing some production work on the side. You can always repurpose that machine later, especially since they aren't outrageously expensive in the first place.

I've ordered an M1 MacBook Air (16GB / 1TB) for exactly that purpose. I'll mess around with it for sure, but I won't upgrade my main work machine(s) until higher-end ones are out. The M1 MBA will make a great personal/admin machine no matter what... But later down the track I know I could even clone my main DAW system (plug ins and all) to it, and hand it over to an assistant. I already have my sound library and project drives cloned on external SSDs (in a TB bay enclosure). And hey presto you have a fully cloned composer's workstation that can open any of my cues in full, so an assistant can do editing work, stem exports etc. You could never get a usable workstation clone like this at such a low price, especially not one that could stand a chance of handling larger cues.

Turns out at least not everything was a disaster in 2020...
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #402
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
My MBA with same 1TB 16GB RAM was supposed to be delivered today but looks like I’ll have to wait until Monday.

Like tbirdparis, I’m getting the MBA to use as a great portable and will hold on to my iMac Pro for main DAW use until next Gen. AS. My 16” MacBook that I just bought last December for a chunk of change is going. There are things I loved about it but just today the screen saver kicked in and for whatever reason the damn fans spun up! I won’t miss that!

My MBA has made it stateside. I see it is in Alaska.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #403
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjab ➡️

My 16” MacBook that I just bought last December for a chunk of change is going. There are things I loved about it but just today the screen saver kicked in and for whatever reason the damn fans spun up! I won’t miss that!

Tell me about it! Since as far back as I can remember, one of the biggest bugbears using MacBook Pros in film/TV scoring work is the fans ramping up to full speed the second you connect an external display.

At least one external display (for video playback) is non-negotiable, but we usually use at least two when working with a laptop. It feels almost too good to be true to think loud fan noise at all times might no longer be the case going forwards. And it's not just about the noise... whatever made them heat up so much (no doubt the GPU) also pushed you to the edge of performance throttling all the time too. I've been in situations where I've had to disconnect the external displays and just use a QT window in Logic just to get enough performance back to work on heavier cues. Nightmare!
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #404
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
I had to install a utility to disable turbo boast to keep it tolerable. You then are giving up performance. I really like Bitwig but for whatever reason it made the 16” run hot. Just having the program up and running with no plugins seemed to spin up the fans. And that was without an external monitor. I gave up using an external monitor with it. I don’t do a lot music production on the go so I don’t need a monster laptop. I made a mistake spending so much on the 16”.

My iMac Pro on the other hand has been a great machine. I’ll eventually replace it with another iMac or rumored Mac Mini Pro. As good as the benchmarks are I’m not even sure I would need an AS iMac Pro. Depending on specs the next AS iMacs may be more than enough for my needs.

Of course software can always evolve to use all the computing resources and then some!

I’ll hold on to the current iMac Pro to run legacy stuff and perhaps use bootcamp to make it a Windows machine for programs not supported on OSX.
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #405
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I played with a base model M1 for ~a month. Great machine really - but as many have indicated, it will be a while before interface maker (Apogee in my case) and a bunch of plugin vendors catch up. Simple stuff works amazing but low RTL recording with Thunderbolt interfaces will take a while. Lack of Windows support (even Virtual Machines) is another downside for my uses.

The power it represents though for my Studio use is totally sufficient once things catch up. I LOVE my iMac screen so the easy answer is to wait for the M1(x?) iMac :-)
Old 18th December 2020 | Show parent
  #406
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➡️
Are you guys using the new M1s as your main and/or sole machine? I would be surprised if you took that jump.

I have an M1 MBP but as 2nd studio machine to use for video editing, light audio work and other stuff. I’ve no expectations to be using to its full extent until software catches up. It’s more as a testing ground whilst that happens
2nd machine here as well .. 2014 mbp as workhorse and M1 as the Pony in the Corral that needs to be broken !! hard to do but rewarding when it happens .... !! cowboy !! sorry just having some fun .. i am going for another stress test today .. and recording some songs over the weekend .. just my stuff and me alone, i can be an a-hole to record !!! LOL ...


stress test today will be ... quick EDM thing and let it run and record for an hour with as many things as i can record in the next hour .. !!
Old 18th December 2020
  #407
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Has anyone tried Dante Virtual Sound Card on the M1 Macs? I know its not officially supported, but that doesn’t necessarily mesn that it doesn’t work as we have learned.

I contemplate getting an M1 MacBook Air and connect it to my main rig.
Old 19th December 2020
  #408
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
NOTE: i just saw a youtube video with a guy comapring last intel version of Macmini and M1 version ... he did not say 8 or 16gb memory ... BUT his test was running 2 Ozone's and it was a mess ... he ran 10 on M1 without issues ..
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #409
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niclas.G ➡️
Say that again please, i didnt understand. 40 instances of Acoustica Audio and 7% cpu usage?!?! What?? On my gen 4 i7 4.0ghz i can barely use 10!!

Please test this in another daw!! I want to know. Sprinkle the system with AA plugins! If it handles them that well im getting one now!!
I’m only using Pro Tools at the moment, but Acustica Audio plugins run more efficiently in other DAWs so you may get more mileage with something other than Pro Tools. I was also able to get 24 instances of Acustica Audio Gainstation in Pro Tools and that brought the system to 45% CPU usage. The internal audio card seems to be a bit more snappier and able to handle better than the UAD Apollo X6 for some reason. I think this is the first UAD Big Sur driver.
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #410
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➡️
Are you guys using the new M1s as your main and/or sole machine? I would be surprised if you took that jump.

I have an M1 MBP but as 2nd studio machine to use for video editing, light audio work and other stuff. I’ve no expectations to be using to its full extent until software catches up. It’s more as a testing ground whilst that happens
I would NOT use a M1 Mac Mini 16gb ram machine as a main computer for professional production. It’s not even close to what a professional machine should deliver in a professional environment. I suspect that the new iMac Pro and Mac Pro machines will probably start at 16 cores 36gb ram and by then if the coding and bugs are worked out then look out because the price points may come back down to reasonable. I like the latest cheese grater Mac pros but the prices for those machines don’t even make logical since.
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #411
Lives for gear
 
Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
I would NOT use a M1 Mac Mini 16gb ram machine as a main computer for professional production. It’s not even close to what a professional machine should deliver in a professional environment. I suspect that the new iMac Pro and Mac Pro machines will probably start at 16 cores 36gb ram and by then if the coding and bugs are worked out then look out because the price points may come back down to reasonable. I like the latest cheese grater Mac pros but the prices for those machines don’t even make logical since.
Why not, they are more than powerful enough and the RAM has shown to be more than the equivalent in the Intel era Macs?

Single core speeds are the fastest amongst the current Mac lineup?
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #412
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
I would NOT use a M1 Mac Mini 16gb ram machine as a main computer for professional production. It’s not even close to what a professional machine should deliver in a professional environment. I suspect that the new iMac Pro and Mac Pro machines will probably start at 16 cores 36gb ram and by then if the coding and bugs are worked out then look out because the price points may come back down to reasonable. I like the latest cheese grater Mac pros but the prices for those machines don’t even make logical since.
Going by that logic no one should have been able to work professional with a Computer ten years ago...
Our cheesgrater was working fine with 16GB for years, when Ram got cheap I upgraded to 64GB and out of 8 Users on the machine not a single one noticed it.
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #413
Lives for gear
 
uOpt's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➡️
Why not, they are more than powerful enough and the RAM has shown to be more than the equivalent in the Intel era Macs?
Yes and no. There isn't anything about the RAM that works differently.

Advances in music software seem to have made low-RAM machines more acceptable than they used to be. But that applies to Intel Macs, too.
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #414
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolosch ➡️
Going by that logic no one should have been able to work professional with a Computer ten years ago...
Our cheesgrater was working fine with 16GB for years, when Ram got cheap I upgraded to 64GB and out of 8 Users on the machine not a single one noticed it.
The system itself is extremely powerful. It’s really buggy, crashes without warning, and the time lag would not look well with clients in the room who have professional experience. Older computers are far more rock solid for audio work than the current M1 mainly because it’s just that new and everyone has to catch up, there are lots of compatibility issues right now, but once everything is native on the M1 it’s going to become a really great computer. There are some things that I count on as a professional tool and to be fair the M1 is not there yet
Old 19th December 2020 | Show parent
  #415
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.L.I.N.K. ➡️
The system itself is extremely powerful. It’s really buggy, crashes without warning, and the time lag would not look well with clients in the room who have professional experience. Older computers are far more rock solid for audio work than the current M1 mainly because it’s just that new and everyone has to catch up, there are lots of compatibility issues right now, but once everything is native on the M1 it’s going to become a really great computer. There are some things that I count on as a professional tool and to be fair the M1 is not there yet
Ah ok you just mean the software/driver situation, that’s where I totally agree.
It sounded like you were implying that the M1 with its 16GB limitation did not make the cut for you.
Old 20th December 2020 | Show parent
  #416
Gear Maniac
 
Retouch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdparis ➡️
whatever made them heat up so much (no doubt the GPU) also pushed you to the edge of performance throttling all the time too.
This is so true! I think the main problem with previous gen Macbooks has not really been the fan noise, it's been the fact that you are put on edge when the fans kick up because you know a CPU spike might be just around the corner.

I have been using high end Macbook Pros for years and I'm so excited by how smooth these little new ones seem, I think I'm gonna jump across early and just use the fabfilter plugins and my hardware, for now.

Apple have absolutely smashed it
Old 21st December 2020 | Show parent
  #417
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Yep, it's not about the tech specs of the computers, they are really fast and things that are optimized work really well. But that's just a veeeeery small amout of apps and plugins so far.

- Even on Apple's side, converting a 1 hr dj mix wav file with apple's music app takes 10sec longer than on my 2012 retina mbp. Probably because they licensed a codec that's not optimized. Or they just did not think about it yet.

- Ableton, everybody's raving about how well it already works without being ready. Yaeh, try rendering a 1 hr dj mix. Takes forever compared to the 2012 mbp.

- huhhh 1 can open 3 trillion instances of plugin bla bla, yeah, but try opening a song with 100 different plugins in Rosetta and Logic Pro native and things get serious.

and so on.....
Old 21st December 2020 | Show parent
  #418
Opening a song with 100 third party plugins and logic in rosetta mode - not a problem as long as they work under rosetta.

Ableton is probably the worst app that still works. If you understand what im trying to say. Protools, studio one and reaper seems to work as expected.
Old 23rd December 2020
  #419
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Not a scientific test but Kontakt seems to work streaming from disk. 64 patches in Ableton on the 16GB M1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypeLK4vgk0
Old 23rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #420
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi ➡️
Not a scientific test but Kontakt seems to work streaming from disk. 64 patches in Ableton on the 16GB M1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypeLK4vgk0
This is cool to see. I'm mostly still trying to suss out whether I'll need 8 or 16 GB for my use case. I make electronic music, so lots of samples in drum machine plugins, samplers, etc. I see plenty of people saying that 8GB is enough for most use cases, but they don't get specific.

Anyone got a clear take on the latest understanding of 8 vs 16 for sample heavy music?
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