You can't use their plugins without a hardware either, it seems like it works quite well for them.

They intend to bring people to their hardware by proposing really good VIs (I don't know if they are really good but it's certainly how they'll sell it)

Even if Luna seems a great improvement over the Console+DAW flow, I hope the improvements below are on their todo list:

- have more DSP chips/input or
faster chips (2 chips/input or 1 faster chip/input)
- reduce the latency of their mkii plugins to 0 like the legacy ones or at least divide by 2.
- reduce their apollo interface default latency with better drivers

Oxide, neve summing and the other tape are native though. It begs to wonder how long they'll keep using DSP in their hardware and if buying extra apollo or satellites is a good idea...

so someone who bought an interface that they wanted....should now be mad that they can't immediately use a piece of free software that they didn't even know existed...until 3 days ago ?

interesting.

i'm sure they will have pc support. the apollo console and uad plugins work on pc/windows, i see no reason why they won't eventually get to a pc version.

the mac version isn't even released yet. they simply stated it will be for mac only...initially.

i totally agree with all of this.

i can't wait to check it out and i hope it works the way i believe it will.

i am a die hard analog guy. i was on tape and consoles until i just couldn't afford to do that anymore, up to around 2008 or so when i started using radar and protools

the apollo system is amazing, and i have loved having all that power in a few interfaces and a laptop. it makes the music making process easier and more productive. the uad plugins are the first to finally get me away from hardware. i still use some pieces, but the plugins are so good now.

i honestly can't tell the difference between a distressor and the plugin version. the other plugs are amazing too.

this LUNA system appears to solve the only issues i had with using apollo and console to track live bands. the latency will hopefully be low enough that i can work in the apollo system completely and that is great.

i'm ready...bring it on.

I'm lost, if Luna will not run without a compatible Apollo or Arrow, who exactly are you referring to that will require an iLok if the VI's will not run on normal native environments ?

Yeah, his answer didn't make sense to me either. The VI's are to be installed natively on the mac, outside of Luna, but won't actually load into anything but Luna, and Luna won't load unless there's an Apollo etc dongle......so yeah....wtf does ilok enter into any equation?

I do look forward to the SOS review this July for some cohesive conclusions.

Sorry if this is already buried in the 1000’s of posts already, but can someone answer me this:

Can you confirm that there is a low latency path (32ms or less) for:

1) sending live recording multi tracks through a bus with UA plugs in real-time?
2) sending all tracks (including the live drum bus) to a main bus with more UA plugs while tracking?

This is one of the biggest things I have missed about working on an analog console is having some default bus compression while tracking. I end up using way less individual track compressors and start to hear how everything fits together much earlier in the process.

Assuming there has to be some limits here, but a typical chain I would love to have with UA plugs in real time would be:

Unison pre>UAD EQ 1>UAD Compressor>UAD UAD EQ 2>Tape Emu>Drum Summing Bus>Drum Bus Limiter>Main Summing Bus>Main Bus Limiter>Headphones

This seems like a long chain for low latency. Is there a line with what will work in real time...or is this actually somehow possible in Luna?

Interesting online feedback-

"I actually see them losing alot of customers with this release. More options, yet less power from the hardware. And to remain relevant you'd have to continue to buy into the future hardware to power the plugins?
Have they released the plugin cpu consumption chart count yet for the new stuff?"

"Mac only? what a joke*looks very nice. good thing I can transform my DAW in this. Lol"
"Reinventing the wheel...It'll be 5+ years before Luna is anywhere close to the full feature set of top-tier existing DAW applications.
Mac only? Seriously?! That's just incredibly short-sighted.

UA is using their same "unison" technology.
As was mentioned above, there's no such thing as zero-latency.
With "unison", you can run UAD plugins at ~2ms round-trip latency (which is great).
Of course, you can do this with an Apollo and any DAW application (albeit slightly less integrated).

With Presonus Quantum and a fast machine, you can run sub 2ms round-trip latency with any (non-latent) plugin."
"Avid and UA are still living under a rock, no doubt about it."
"So, it's gonna be free for Thunderbolt Apollo and Arrow users on Mac, but the Neve and Tape summing that they brag about will be sold seperately (around 300 bucks apparently).*
Most of the instruments are sold seperately and can only be used inside Luna, and iLok is also required, next to your TB card being hooked on*

The low-latency part of Luna apparently doesn't function when you also have a UAD dsp card hooked up (pcie or satellite)*

Luna only supports AU plug-ins, and it only has 4 insert slots and 2 auxes*

You still have to use the DSP for all UAD plug-ins, Luna only works natively with the summing, instruments, and daw engine. So DSP will run out just as fast as usual.*

There's no ETA on Windows support and/or vst support, no word from UA about that.*

I think UA really lost it. Come on UA, it's 2020, not 2002. And that's coming from a long time UAD user."
"I am a UAD user. Have been probably for the past 15 years (when the UAD-1 was branded as a Mackie card). There are many things I don't like about it, but many things I do like (like their 1176 and the LA-2A's etc...). I am not like many uad users under the incorrect impression that they are still quality wise miles ahead of native options.
The Luna is not for me...I can't possibly see where it would help my workflow.
The world did not need another DAW. It is more work for Developers to have to deal with yet another DAW with its own idiosyncrasies.
It is also taking away development time for UA itself (from making more plugins, mk2 upgrades and for christ sake finally fixing their stupid installer (so you can choose what you want to install my #1 gripe with UAD), or making it a hybrid system where the dsp tasks can be shared by both their dsp chips and native), unless they hired a new set of people to do LUNA stuff exclusively.
To announce it before a Windows version can be mentioned is also ridiculous.

However I am not sure why this would make me stop using UAD-2 stuff. I will just ignore it for the most part and continue what I have to do. I am curious why you think it will make them lost customers."
"UAD has a problem in that they are releasing all these guitar effect modeling plugs that need little latency and possibly wanting to get into the vsti market all while trapped in a high latency system.

Their solution is to develop their own ecosystem. I guess that could solve their latency problem but it will be many years if ever before they catch up to the big boys in the DAW world as pointed out by numerous posters.

Most likely in the meantime LUNA will be used for tracking by folks and then exported elsewhere for more complex stuff. Whether it’s worth the added aggravation of more layers of software remains to be seen."
*

Nobody can confirm anything about Luna. It's not released into anyone's hands yet.

Everyone can yap....but no one can confirm. Even from UA....cuz whatever they say today, may change by release....

I just put it as a link. I'll try adding it in the post. Here you go...

UAD has the plugins, but Presonus has everything else. They just got 8 or 9 awards at NAMN Lol. Anyway Luna seems very interesting.

You're forgetting how Presonus started. As a very simple basic DAW that was given away for free with Presonus interfaces. Technology is always evolving. I don't see one DAW overtaking them all. There will just be many DAWs co-existing to suit the users workflow and some people will prefer some to others. They all seem to take ideas from each other so the more DAWs with innovative ideas the more it pushes existing DAWs and companies to innovate.

For those who want the closest experience to walking into the Namm booth (if you didn't get the chance), I filmed the experience and asked most of the questions that were asked on here (before you asked them) lol.





https://currentsound.com/general/uni...ssions-review/

Also the guy from the video is super nice and bought me a beer at the bar after the conference on the weekend, a couple of days after I shot the video. They seem genuinely interested in making something cool and unique. Given that the biggest issue with most DAWs is not listening to their users and not innovating, I have a feeling Luna might end up becoming a big thing because the UAD guys seem to have a good attitude when it comes to being innovative. He said a few times, all they really want for now is just for people to try it. They are obviously going to add more features as time goes on.

LUNA will travel boldly where no one has gone before. Some say boldly before 2003, but I can't confirm that. She will take you safely through the snow-flake universe and solar systems that are being patrolled and policed by the politically correct alliance, where opposing opinions are shut down, with Phasers set to mute.

The ship has all the necessary 70s tech that one needs for safe passage, as you can see in the pictures. It has computers running on analog tape, a console with many knobs and buttons, even Windows looking out. More Windows are to be added in the future. The only thing that's missing is fur and shag-carpet someone's pissed on, like in many real studios. Boomers will remember! Yes, the same people that some of the young Ferengi attack and make fun of, despite the fact that they've made space travel possible in the first place.

LUNA can travel at the speed of light as advertised, as long as you keep the cargo light. She'll save your life if you ever get attacked by the Klingon Armada who de-cloak at the mention of monthly subscriptions, Avid, Acoustica, etc.Or as they like to say: "Hab SoSlI' Quch! which translated means,those who don't want to pay $399 for a single plugin but like to pay $149 annually for many have smooth foreheads." Whatever that means!

Just remember, not to plug in 5 or 6 heavy-duty computers into the sockets before you jump to light speed. It will automatically disable your shields, which need over 5 ms to comeback up. Enough for Klingon blasters and photon torpedoes to reach their target. And since there is no manual buffer override, you won't be able to activate the shields in time.

She's faster and better than USS Protoolis, USS Cubaseca, as well as USS Logic. The Borg fear her, Khan hates her and no one has told Jeff Rosica yet.

C'mon, guys, this thread has turned into a dark comedy and whine-fest of epic proportions. UA has released a new product and for all who will be using it, awesome and congrats!For those who won't, look at the bright side, this will make the devs of your favorite DAW be more creative. I personally can't wait what what the next Cubase Pro release will bring.

Live long and prosper!

If they can add beat detective from pro tools and solve the aux thing ( My default pro tools session has 24 reverb sends) I am in, as long AVID doesnt come up with a new killer HDX mk2 card with 10 times more power than the current one and support for MPE.
From my point of view LUNA is GREAT, it will give Apollo users even more for the money and also put some pressure on the AVID guys.

HDX is quite different in that it neatly scales thanks to physical hardware connections between DSP cards. All of the FPGAs and DSP work inclusively of each other to form the mix engine architecture and plugin DSP. Luna probably has to be native due to UAD devices working a little more independently from each other. Especially the interfaces and PCIe/Satellite units that really only interconnect to each other through the native system.

From what I understood, the tape and console extensions run natively?

People that don't have an Apollo (or Arrow) and Luna can't use them anyway. On the other hand people that do have Luna could use them without buying them. I guess that's where iLok is needed for.

Can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic ?

Try flipping the phase of your vocal monitor path. No joke. It is not always the latency that bothers you. Reverse Polarity can (sometimes) help a lot to get a more natural hearing of the own voice via headphones.

It is not released. No one can use it.
Do not assume UA is completely stupid - they heard the Win guys clearly here, they heard them also in the past.
You have to start somewhere and the choice was mac os, which does not mean win is out - just 2nd.

Rather release a stable software platform after platform than 2 buggy ones.
I believe no win user would be happy to get a version that is not completely stable - just to have one.
Maybe it was just not ready for namm but ready for release in spring?

(Questions in bold)

Ok, that's nice and elegant and it might be a good solution for many.
However, basically any native interface can use a low latency input monitor path to track while your mix is already going. Some even with DSP/FPGA powered effects like in your case.
You've made it nice and elegant by sort of automating the process.

In HD Native I have to turn that on manually and it will then too automatically bypass any native processing on that path until the track is taken out of record arm. No separate mixer window to deal with.

Being able to manually set a low buffer is handy though when you DO want to put native processing in the monitor path.
Is it possible to monitor an input path natively with luna, in case we want to monitor through a native plugin in stead of an uad one? I presume with the fixed 128 sample buffer...

How many of the interface's outputs are simultaneously available as low latency input 'accelerated' monitoring paths? If you have more interfaces, does the number increase ot is it capped?

Ok this is interesting.. I'm wondering how you keep this native/DSP combo low latency enough.
What is this (fixed?) VI buffer and what is the minimum added latency if you do use UAD processing on them?

Hope you see these questions

UA didn´t release working setups for Windows for more than one year. I asked on the UAD forum why, since some guys posted in the net that they made their systems work even on the latest AMDs. And did receive the usual answers.

I couldn´t stop laughing when UA told us here no DAW developer wanted to work with them and that´s why the developed LUNA. You have to be extremely naive or on their payroll if you support such nonsense.

Drew @ UA Will LUNA support MultiOut VI's? Superior,Slate etc... And if yes,is it through Busses like in PT or more like Logic style?
And in demos on NAMM seems like there is no copy sends from one track to another (Logic's issue still) or just they didn't use it? Not big of a deal but still...

They mentioned a fixed buffer of 128 samples for their instrument plugins for the initial release.

Yes that's nice, I'm aware of this feature, but most interfaces have a low latency monitor path, its low latency is nothing to boast about. Not all of them have DSP/FPGA based effects though.
However, UAD and now Luna too seem to force the user to only use uad effects on inputs, because the native rtl of their interfaces is often relatively high, making it not suitable to track through native effects with indiscernible latency.
I have no problem with the addition of the low latency DSP option, I take issue with taking away choice, if that's what they've done.
I think that most of us can agree that ideally you have both a input monitoring path and a DAW return monitoring part (the RTL) that CAN be low latency enough to record through, with plugins.

If it's only one or the other, I'd rather it be the latter than the former, however good the UAD plugins may be. There's a great many more good native plugins then there are good UAD plugins.
I don't print them, but I do like to put them on my input monitor path some times.
Only being able to use UAD ones would be actually limiting for me, not some magical liberation as some would make it out to be.

Low latency monitoring and tracking through plugins is possible on good native systems too, you needn't have apollo for that. On both of them, you c/wouldn't use just any plugin chain though. This is called knowing your gear.
Yes with native you need to run at low buffers to do so, which increases CPU strain and risk of problems, but modern CPUs have some headroom to deal with that.
Plus, separate playback and record buffers exist in other daws too, this is not something UAD invented with Luna.

How well that works is another thing, how well it works in Luna remains to be seen too.

Then I have serious doubts about this claim of low latency tracking of VIs with UAD processing at 44.1.
128 samples at that SR is rather generous to have low latencies with Apollo RTLs, let alone if you add a field trip to the evergreens of DSP.
I'd imagine that would run into the 5-10ms range easily, even with uad plugins that don't add latency themselves. the roundtrip to the DSP itself causes latency, no?

I'd like to see some figures on this.

Yet here you are typing furiously whilst crying, hyperventilating, hysterically freaking out, and gnashing what few teeth you have left.

Actually Luna questioned lots of things I thought were granted to me, but now I realize they are stunning.

Changing my Console inputs, plugins and all in one click and it switches from tracking drums to "solo, guitars, keys, vocal chain". That's awesome.

My daw is seeing only "input 1,2,3 " it's like a tape machine, and that's great I don't mess it up or set it to "low latency monitoring".

BUT THEN, as I recorded in my mixing template with 200 plugins, SO now my DAW transforms into a mixing machine, switch buffer to relax it, and go for it ( tracks are where they are when tracking, no export no other daw that is ALWAYS set to low latency and eats CPU).

Free VST I have in Logic. included plugins.


Anyway, I think someone offers alternative for things that are, in the end, super flexible and great.

I'm glad new users can get Luna, maybe some PT users can find an alternative. But I'm also realizing how freaking awesome is Logic for mixing, same stripped Logic for tracking and powerfull, flexible Console before it for tracking. never switching to anything else. I'not scared to close console and open logic's setting from time to time!

And if Luna stimulates Logic to get even even better, I'm happy! ( or people ditch PT ahah)

Exciting, I might try it but I realize how DAWs, at least Logic for me, are freaking bombs, evolved and refine.

Hmm, I have IDC activated, also...

I really hate latency and I am particularly sensitive to it in live performance. Not saying Apollo is the greatest- it’s not- but latency is one of my dealbreaker issues. I can’t abide MIDI jitter, unreliable drivers, poor sound quality, problematic interfacing, latency beyond a certain threshold, and unreliability.

Typically I have about a dozen external synthesizers and various drum machines routed live at any one time, and I play drums, guitar, bass, mandolin, fiddle, steel guitar, vocoder, melodica, sing, etc., so I require it all to be pretty tight and flexible. I even got an Innerclock Sync-Lock to do some heavy lifting. A great product! Long story short, I am pretty picky about these things, and my three Apollos have worked reasonably well for my needs. Not perfect! I would prefer to run a proper console and tape with no computer. And it certainly doesn’t rival a full blown Pro Tools solution. But I wouldn’t put it past UA to eventually get there.