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UAD plugins for production worth it?
Old 5th August 2019 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
It's not a dongle. It never was. Just because you think other chips can do the same job faster or do more work doesn't make it a dongle.
If it doesn't do processing better than a processor, but it is a 100% secure copy protection, it's defining characteristic is probably not its processing capability. If you can bestir yourself to read one post further up I did say it has upsides but it's totally a copy protection more than it is a technological necessity.


Quote:
First of all, I still don't think I've ever seen a port from a UAD-2 only plugin that takes up a lot of UAD-2 DSP ported over to a native system (VST for example), 'be' and sound the same, and then use less available processing. Maybe that could happen, but I've never seen that, and neither have you I bet.
There's a lot wrong with this argument. First is that you could safely disregard everything after the first 10 or 15 words and it would be a lot more genuine. There are only a couple devs who develop native and UAD, and you'll just dismiss any example i point out by claiming it wasnt specifically developed for UAD even though neither of us have access to that information. The reason you dont see a lot of ports from UAD to native is the same reason you dont see an option to buy Cubase Pro with simple serial protection. Someone in this thread mentioned vertigo vsm taxes their uad cards significantly but not their processor. Is that good enough?

Quote:
And before someone chimes in: There are some "UA" plugins that exist as both UAD-2 plugins and native, but as far as I know those are either plugins that were digital from the start and not emulations (thus no change in algorithms because the plugin = the original in both cases) or they started out as plugins made by for example SSL and where then ported over, i.e. not adapted and recoded to be better on UAD-2's architecture.
As far as you know they were digital to begin with. What does that mean? As far as you know they could have been etched in cuneiform. All plugins are digital. You think the sharc chips allow for a special emulation coding language you can't use natively? What about softube then? Brainworx? Emulations are their bread and butter. Didnt PA recently release native versions of previously UAD exclusive plugs? Is that a flawed example too? Why are you wording your argument so emphatically if you dont know the subject matter?
Old 5th August 2019
  #62
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
I'll respond more later, but for now let's just say that words actually have meaning, and if your way of thinking is that it's fair to call a UAD-2 a "dongle" then I suppose you disagree that words have meaning, or that their actual meaning are of any relevance.

Days like these after a weekend like this I think that's not the way to go.

As for the technical comments I'll just have to wait a few hours before I have time for that. If you really care there's a recent thread about UAD-2 where you can read some very good comments on the topic. There's the regular whining about price and lack of performance so it has all that you require, with the addition of some insight from clearly more technical people. It should be easy to find desipte there being a million threads with exactly the same whining.
Old 5th August 2019
  #63
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
IMO its worth getting on the platform for Ocean Way And Capitol Chambers alone.
Old 5th August 2019 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
I'll respond more later, but for now let's just say that words actually have meaning, and if your way of thinking is that it's fair to call a UAD-2 a "dongle" then I suppose you disagree that words have meaning, or that their actual meaning are of any relevance.
Smug, dramatic and disingenous all at once. Very nice
Old 6th August 2019 | Show parent
  #65
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greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzia ➡️
But I don't see how buying a plug that's widely distributed in the warez scene amounts to subsidizing freeloaders.
I do. While I don't have any data to support this, I know there are some warez users who, if it wasn't available for free, would actually pay the amount the developer advertises. As long as there are some users not paying, then yes I feel like I'm subsidizing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzia ➡️
Those devs dont have access to how many cracks have been downloaded so they can make you pay a share of their supposed losses - many of which are not losses at all because a great many software pirates are just collectors who barely use the stuff and never would have paid a penny for a license regardless.
Do you have any substantial data to back this up or are you just guessing? I don't know what research developers use do you? I agree there are probably lots of people only collecting, but I believe there also are lots of people using it illegally too. Even in some major commercial recording studios, and there I speak from experience!

Anyway this is about UAD and not warez. I suppose if you think a Mac is simply a dongle, then an accelerator card could be too.

Last edited by greggybud; 6th August 2019 at 04:58 AM..
Old 6th August 2019 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud ➡️
I suppose if you think a Mac is simply a dongle, then an accelerator card could be too.
I don't, but I've heard people refer to a mac laptop as "my donglebook."

RE: everything else. You make reasonable points. I guess I won't keep derailing the convo to split hairs over it
Old 6th August 2019 | Show parent
  #67
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nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
As the majority is saying... get UAD if you want some specific UAD plugin. That also means a big inverstment for little to no return, unless you have an old computer. If so, computing power is cheaper than it used to be and your get more out of upgrading your computer. With todays compyting power i had never though about it this way, but it is indeed a big ilok you need to use their plugins. Todays computing power means native plugins can be and are as detailed...the good ones at least
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzia ➡️
Smug, dramatic and disingenous all at once. Very nice
So I was actually going to address what you wrote in more detail simply because I thought it was worth it, and then I read the above.

If you think I characterized you as an individual, or what you wrote, in as negative terms as the above then I'm sorry. I don't think I did though. I only criticized redefining the word "dongle" and what seems as a trend (of which you're seemingly a part) of diminishing the meaning of words.

So since you're being so rude and annoying for no good reason I'll just ignore you.
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
As the majority is saying... get UAD if you want some specific UAD plugin. That also means a big inverstment for little to no return, unless you have an old computer.
But that last point doesn't follow from the first.

In order for what you say to be true there has to be close to zero difference between UAD plugins and native plugins. The second the UAD plugins are clearly better to a user there's going to be a return on the investment.

Now, obviously we're going to have a range of opinions about whether or not that's the case, and we're probably going to have opinions about how to figure it out in the first place. But in my experience there are (or at least were) plugins that UA created that sounded both clearly different and in my opinion better than native alternatives. So for anyone who really needs or really wants that particular sound the return on investment might be quite large.

In other words; just because some people can make do with native plugins doesn't mean others aren't getting a reasonable benefit from buying a UAD-2 setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
If so, computing power is cheaper than it used to be and your get more out of upgrading your computer.
I know you wrote "if", so I'll just reiterate that the value of UAD-2 devices extends beyond additional DSP. The quality of plugins makes it debatable whether or not any given user gets more out of upgrading a computer versus buying a UAD-2.

--- I'm not saying one can't make good sounding recordings/mixes without UAD-2 though... of course I'm not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
With todays compyting power i had never though about it this way, but it is indeed a big ilok you need to use their plugins.
I still think this is a terrible way of talking about it.

If it is true that if software requires a hardware purchase in order to run and that makes the hardware a "dongle" then any computer you have to buy is the de facto dongle for any software you buy. So the only "dongle-free" software is one that runs in the cloud. Think that's a ridiculous argument? Come back in 5-10 years when we're actually doing far more cloud processing and that argument will sound completely reasonable for anyone currently arguing a UAD-2 is a dongle.

An iLok is an "iLok".
A dongle is a "dongle".
A UAD-2 is a DSP chip(s) that runs dedicated plugins.

Not the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Todays computing power means native plugins can be and are as detailed...the good ones at least
I think that's debatable.
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Addict
 
TexasCat's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I recently got out of the UAD platform completely. It wasn't my intention but ultimately I did because of UAD's reselling policy. Let me explain...

To resell UAD plugins you must sell them with UAD hardware and you must sell all that you have or none at all.

I originally was going to sell my Twin and buy a Satellite and keep using their plugins but the twin was nearly worthless without some plugins other than the stock one's that came with it. This would have been fine if I could have culled thru my plugins and let go the one's I didn't use and keep the one's that I liked but UAD will not allow that.

In the end I just sold it all and got out altogether. I do miss one or two but I was able to find replacements for all of them.

UAD is more of an "all in" commitment...
Old 8th August 2019
  #71
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A dongle is hardware that makes it harder to pirate the software. Obviously calling the uad card a dongle is done in an ironic sense as a commentary on the way the accelerator cards have sort of outlived their original purpose of adding horsepower to a computer back when cpus ran at 650 meg or less--and probably more functional for piracy prevention as their additional computing power is minimal compared to the host computers now.

If, for the sake of argument, if we are to agree that the uad plugins are the only plugs that sound 'just like the hardware', I think there is a larger question of why hardware sounds of the 60s and 70s became essential to good music today--but this is not the place to 'go there'. For the purposes of this discussion, its simply a matter of whether one wants the sound only a uad plug in can do. Certainly not something I can say on behalf of anyone else.

On another thread there is discussion that touches on the notion that apple hardware is a dongle. This is to reflect the awareness we have that we can build a hackintosh for less money than an equivalent mac desktop, and that apple is working with their operating system to prevent that. So, the 'dongleness' of it is recognizing it serves a piracy protection purpose in addition to actually running the code. I had not thought of this until now, but apple's osx dongleness is sort of to prevent hardware piracy--how often do we see that as a concern?

To claim something can only serve one function is to impose a false binary rule into the discussion.
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #72
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Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat ➡️
I recently got out of the UAD platform completely. It wasn't my intention but ultimately I did because of UAD's reselling policy. Let me explain...

To resell UAD plugins you must sell them with UAD hardware and you must sell all that you have or none at all.

I originally was going to sell my Twin and buy a Satellite and keep using their plugins but the twin was nearly worthless without some plugins other than the stock one's that came with it. This would have been fine if I could have culled thru my plugins and let go the one's I didn't use and keep the one's that I liked but UAD will not allow that.

In the end I just sold it all and got out altogether. I do miss one or two but I was able to find replacements for all of them.

UAD is more of an "all in" commitment...
Same here. I’ve become frustrated by not being able to sell plug ins and ‘mostly’ have found replacements for the UAD favs.

I honestly think it’s an old business model, and they need to considering going native..
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJV ➡️
...in terms of modeling the classic vintage hardware UAD Is usually much better. (
I don't use much Waves stuff, but I have been very impressed with the UAD in this specific area vs other native things. It's the reason I got into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytrusze ➡️
I agree, and I do have the money to invest but I think its unfair (but smart business move from UAD tho) that they force you to use their hardware DSP when my CPU could easily handle their plugins.
It is only a smart business move because they have a superior product - or at least a product that is perceived as superior. Otherwise such a business model would collapse. It's also "unfair" that a Ferrari costs 5x as much as a Corvette but only goes 15 mph faster. Somehow they stay in business.

I carefully consider where I want to allocate my UAD stuff, and nothing is stopping me from rendering the plugin as audio. I consider the extra instances to be "gravy".
Old 8th August 2019
  #74
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
I think the best view of UAD-2 has always been that it's a replacement for hardware units. Instead of spending X bucks for one 1176 you spend Y bucks for several. If you run out of processing power you either buy another more powerful card or an additional card(s), or you print the audio.... just as you would with actual hardware.

From that standpoint - assuming one likes and wants or needs the audio quality - it's pretty much like buying hardware, and justifiable.

I agree with it being less convenient and less cheap of course.
Old 8th August 2019 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
As the majority is saying... get UAD if you want some specific UAD plugin.
I like a lot of their specific plug-ins. They are consistently high-quality.

Quote:
That also means a big inverstment for little to no return, unless you have an old computer.
this would only be true if you have specific native plug-ins that you think are just as good or better than the ones you want from UAD. IMHO, UAD's plugs "beat" the native alternatives for certain classic vintage hardware things. So the age of my computer is irrelevant.

Quote:
Todays computing power means native plugins can be and are as detailed...the good ones at least
IMO, "computing power" has long ago ceased to be the determining factor in the "detail" or general quality of a plug-in. The quality of a plug is down to its design team. UAD goes the extra mile, often modeling units component-by-component instead of as a black box. Do other companies do this? I suppose some do. Certainly nothing is stopping them. But UAD consistently offers some quality stuff. No magic, no exclusive secret weapons, just good product.

I am perfectly willing to concede it's a "dongle". I am perfectly willing to concede the DSP chips are "underpowered". I cannot say the native alternatives (for certain plugs) are "just as good". So what am I to do?

Quote:
If so, computing power is cheaper than it used to be and your get more out of upgrading your computer.
Only if you like the native alternative just as much.

I will give you an example: Ocean Way. No reverb that I have ever tried even comes close to giving me what Ocean Way does. I would go UAD just for that and their Pultec. I can throw "computing power" at the issue all day, if no native company sells a product that scratches that itch for me, then UAD is going to get my money..
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi ➡️
For the purposes of this discussion, its simply a matter of whether one wants the sound only a uad plug in can do. Certainly not something I can say on behalf of anyone else.
Thanks.
Unfortunately, with seemingly endless UAD threads, it's the same issues about once a month.

1. "My ____ replaced my old UAD ____ and I'm happier than ever."
Great! You are free and liberated. I'm sure you still create excellent mixes.

2. "The accelerator card is just a dongle."
Won't rehash that one...until next month.

3. "They need to go native."
Why?

4. "My inside source says their BF sales are doing poorly, and they won't be around much longer unless they go native."
Keep wishing. I asked this person about his "inside sources" around BF, and he vanished. I don't get the impression they are going out of business any time soon.

5. "My ____ is almost as good as Ocean Way."


Did I miss anything?

Ecclesiastes 1:9
Old 9th August 2019
  #77
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Pretty well sums it up. I think Ecc 6 captures the essence: "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #78
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Chevron's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I only mention 'maybe' they should go native because originally the idea with UAD was to add powerful processing via cards and devices to computers when the average computers weren't so powerful weren't so powerful for mixing and using intense reverb and analog modelled processing. Same as with Avid/Digidesign with their Mix and HD cards using TDM, largely people have moved on from that and are using native more and more...

The real sea change with me was when a couple of UAD plug ins I used often, I happen to check out natively. BX EQ3, Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor and . a few other Sonnox plugs. I realised they were the exactly same (null tests etc) and I could ditch the Satellite (and the various issues I have had with it) and easily have enough CPU overheard in the process.

The one plug in that I am missing is the Manley Massive Passive, oh and maybe the Studio D Chorus, and possibly EP-34 delay haha If anyone knows of worthy replacements I'd be grateful.. The EP-34 delay I probably have covered by the awesome Valhalla delay
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #79
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greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron ➡️
I only mention 'maybe' they should go native because originally the idea with UAD was to add powerful processing via cards and devices to computers when the average computers weren't so powerful weren't so powerful for mixing and using intense reverb and analog modelled processing.
I totally understand. I wasn't specifically referring to your post. It's an issue that comes up every month. And I get the issue of not being able to sell individual plugs.

You mentioned Sonnox. I could buy the native version...for example Envolution, but around BF their sale wasn't as attractive as including it in the UAD 4 bundle. I guess it goes back to how much load you put on your Quad/Octo accelerators, but for myself, I would never consider buying it native solely due to the price.
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #80
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nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Having used uad before i reiterate. Unless looking for a specific plugin uad is a dongle... because today there are plugins that do the same natively. Because i had done a shootout sometime ago, and a thread about it, and uad interfaces just sound inferior to the other at the same price range. Now if you want an la2a in plugin format there are better optical compression plugins in native. However, there are no better LA2As. I dont think its worth the money, and the returns are worse because part of the investment is the overpriced hardware that is the dongle. If money is no object though yeah...more options
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Unless looking for a specific plugin uad is a dongle... because today there are plugins that do the same natively.
Again, show me the Ocean Way that "do the same natively"? Also, by the "same", then this native plug should null with Ocean Way correct? I can mention several UAD plugs where the "same" is not done natively. I can't find anything even close to Ocean Way. Or do you mean "close enough for me?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
Because i had done a shootout sometime ago, and a thread about it, and uad interfaces just sound inferior to the other at the same price range.
I would disagree, and I don't do "shootouts." What is the "other in the same price range" you are referring to?
Old 9th August 2019
  #82
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Ok, I admit. It's a dongle. Everything is a dongle.

I once had to access my account to get a serial number to authorize my native plugin. I got it on my cellphone. My cellphone is a dongle.

The Mac is a dongle.

What DAW operator runs a DAW without a monitor???

The monitor is a dongle.

Everything is a dongle. Because I say so. Let's just ignore words. We make up our own meaning.
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #83
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nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud ➡️
Again, show me the Ocean Way that "do the same natively"? Also, by the "same", then this native plug should null with Ocean Way correct? I can mention several UAD plugs where the "same" is not done natively. I can't find anything even close to Ocean Way. Or do you mean "close enough for me?"

I would disagree, and I don't do "shootouts." What is the "other in the same price range" you are referring to?


-Antelope (but customer support issues, but superior sounding on every level, including some of its built in effects). Again, not even close. I think its cheaper too
-Vrs
-Anyways on shootout it was an apogee symphony which wasnt even close and that was the general concensus. It smokes the apollo

But maybe for you its as you worded "good enough for you" . As for reverbs well there are m9re reverbs that smoke those in uad for a broader variety of situations. But yeah buying a $1k dongle for one reverb makes sense...?
Again, its excellent if there is a plugin you realy like and want that option. And if no money is no object that reverb at its task is indeed very good. But expensive, and wont do as good a job for many tasks as others which go for a more real sound, or others which do a different thing so it is not like it beats the other reverbs. Did a say a more real sound.. ql spaces and acon verberate beat oceanway and have been reviewed as beating the bricasti in many reviews not all...i concur with that. Those also better oceanway, unless you specifically want those oceanway sounds. Now if you mean the oceanway plugin for mic simulation, yeah. The townswnd with that plugin beats vms with their native plugin. But it requires a totally worth $1500 mic.
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
The Mac is a dongle.
.
if you would like to use Logic as your DAW, it absolutely is a "dongle".
Old 9th August 2019 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
if you would like to use Logic as your DAW, it absolutely is a "dongle".
As long as we're not using logic.
Old 10th August 2019 | Show parent
  #86
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ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➡️
...Let's just ignore words. We make up our own meaning.
Its only words...

Old 10th August 2019 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
I like a lot of their specific plug-ins. They are consistently high-quality.


this would only be true if you have specific native plug-ins that you think are just as good or better than the ones you want from UAD. IMHO, UAD's plugs "beat" the native alternatives for certain classic vintage hardware things. So the age of my computer is irrelevant.


IMO, "computing power" has long ago ceased to be the determining factor in the "detail" or general quality of a plug-in. The quality of a plug is down to its design team. UAD goes the extra mile, often modeling units component-by-component instead of as a black box. Do other companies do this? I suppose some do. Certainly nothing is stopping them. But UAD consistently offers some quality stuff. No magic, no exclusive secret weapons, just good product.

I am perfectly willing to concede it's a "dongle". I am perfectly willing to concede the DSP chips are "underpowered". I cannot say the native alternatives (for certain plugs) are "just as good". So what am I to do?



Only if you like the native alternative just as much.

I will give you an example: Ocean Way. No reverb that I have ever tried even comes close to giving me what Ocean Way does. I would go UAD just for that and their Pultec. I can throw "computing power" at the issue all day, if no native company sells a product that scratches that itch for me, then UAD is going to get my money..

I agree that there are great plugs out there with the current available CPU power. But I think they would be much better if they were written with more CPU power in mind, but the market and averagley used PC's controls what people buy for practical use.

Units like Eventide flagships have a ton more processing power than what most audio PC's have. We could all use a ton more processing power. But the application of that power is limited by the available software. The software is limited by the availble power. It takes many years for the jump to happen.

Even with the great UAD plugs, I'm sure the designers had to make many comprimises to limit the processing power used. Just imagine what they could design if 1000 times more horsepower was available.
Old 10th August 2019 | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➡️
Even with the great UAD plugs, I'm sure the designers had to make many comprimises to limit the processing power used. Just imagine what they could design if 1000 times more horsepower was available.
UA doesn´t compromise the quality of its latest releases. UA´s developers seem to have learned how to optimize the platform. They stepped up the game with 9.10 and I am expecting more outstanding plugins like the 175-B and 176 to be released in the near future.
Old 10th August 2019 | Show parent
  #89
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Reverb's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres ➡️
-Antelope (but customer support issues, but superior sounding on every level, including some of its built in effects). Again, not even close. I think its cheaper too
-Vrs
-Anyways on shootout it was an apogee symphony which wasnt even close and that was the general concensus. It smokes the apollo

But maybe for you its as you worded "good enough for you" . As for reverbs well there are m9re reverbs that smoke those in uad for a broader variety of situations. But yeah buying a $1k dongle for one reverb makes sense...?
Again, its excellent if there is a plugin you realy like and want that option. And if no money is no object that reverb at its task is indeed very good. But expensive, and wont do as good a job for many tasks as others which go for a more real sound, or others which do a different thing so it is not like it beats the other reverbs. Did a say a more real sound.. ql spaces and acon verberate beat oceanway and have been reviewed as beating the bricasti in many reviews not all...i concur with that. Those also better oceanway, unless you specifically want those oceanway sounds. Now if you mean the oceanway plugin for mic simulation, yeah. The townswnd with that plugin beats vms with their native plugin. But it requires a totally worth $1500 mic.
Isn't the Symphony way more expensive than an Appollo with less functionality, i.e. no tracking without latency through plugins?

The Antelope is a hot mess - not sure why you would even mention an interface with dysfunctional drivers that make it unusable. Didn't sweetwater stop selling them? They still sell Behringer though.

UAD sounds great, has the functionality that no one matches and has the best plugin eco system as far as quality and consistent development goes. I wouldn't personally spend the money on UAD outside of an Appollo, because for me the plugin tracking is the core benefit that justifies the price - but let's get real, that functionality is amazing and completely transforms the experience of tracking as a musician.
Old 10th August 2019 | Show parent
  #90
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nyandres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb ➡️
Isn't the Symphony way more expensive than an Appollo with less functionality, i.e. no tracking without latency through plugins?

The Antelope is a hot mess - not sure why you would even mention an interface with dysfunctional drivers that make it unusable. Didn't sweetwater stop selling them? They still sell Behringer though.

UAD sounds great, has the functionality that no one matches and has the best plugin eco system as far as quality and consistent development goes. I wouldn't personally spend the money on UAD outside of an Appollo, because for me the plugin tracking is the core benefit that justifies the price - but let's get real, that functionality is amazing and completely transforms the experience of tracking as a musician.
Less funtionality yeah, but that is why im making the argument on native plugs.. for the preamp argument there is also the vrs8. Also sounds better and also has great pres. I mentioned antelope because it sounds better, and does everything better ( except for one suprenely important thing...stability) . That said i have their edge go mic, and its stable, but not sure about their larger units. It seems its stable for most people too ...the larger units...hopefully they sort that out
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SolarAxix 15th August 2021
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