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Windows Laptops with good latency
Old 31st August 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Windows Laptops with good latency

Hello,

I would like to make a list of Windows Laptops that are suitable for Music Recording and Production.
It would be great if people with a Windows Laptop could test their setup with LatencyMon (Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks), so people like me that are in the market for a new laptop could know if a laptop is suitable for real time audio.

My personal goal is to be able to run sessions at 64samples.

Thanks.
Old 31st August 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
DPC Latency is not audio latency. Yes you need a laptop with good DPC Latency numbers and it would be nice to have figures for various models but more importantly you'll need an audio interface with good low latency figures to achieve your goal.
Old 1st September 2018 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln ➡️
DPC Latency is not audio latency. Yes you need a laptop with good DPC Latency numbers and it would be nice to have figures for various models but more importantly you'll need an audio interface with good low latency figures to achieve your goal.
Nobody said that DPC latency is Audio Latency but in order to achieve a good audio latency you need a good DPC Latency.

So if you goal is to achieve 64samples latency you can have the best interface but the bottleneck becomes your DPC Latency.
There is plenty of sources and lists of audio interfaces latency numbers unfortunately there is not a list of DPC Latency of Laptop.

Do you have a laptop you can test and do you want to contribute to this list?
Old 1st September 2018 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebbo ➡️
Nobody said that DPC latency is Audio Latency but in order to achieve a good audio latency you need a good DPC Latency.
Of course but your thread title is misleading.

Quote:
So if you goal is to achieve 64samples latency you can have the best interface but the bottleneck becomes your DPC Latency.
There is plenty of sources and lists of audio interfaces latency numbers unfortunately there is not a list of DPC Latency of Laptop.

Do you have a laptop you can test and do you want to contribute to this list?
Unfortunately no. I only use a custom Desktop for a DAW machine and a budget laptop for internet that's not suitable for DAW. For laptop for DAW I would be looking at custom built Clevo by a reputable builder. Off the shelf I would be looking at Lenovo or HP or Dell XPS in that order as those seem to get the most love here. But the off the shelf world changes rapidly so a user contributed database would be great, but it would have to be updated rapidly as models change over time and other brands may suddenly test well. Anyway I hope the database happens and and I'll contribute when and if I can. Good luck.
Old 24th September 2018
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
This are DPC Latency results from a Lenovo Y530.

Do you think is possible to have 64 sample buffer size (with an interface with good drivers) with this numbers?
Attached Thumbnails
Windows Laptops with good latency-screen-shot-2018-09-24-14.19.49.jpg  
Old 24th September 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Personally, I'm a Windows / PC guy since 1981 when I built my first PC on a piece of plywood but if I were looking laptop, I would go Mac.
I'm not saying Windows laptops can't handle DAW work, but it's a minefield out there and IMHO it's just not worth the time screwing around.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 24th September 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 
maxwelldub's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm looking at hackintoshing a T480s. An X1 Carbon would probably also work too. Notebookcheck.com posts latencymon results and Lenovo Thinkpads seem to consistently have good latency results. Of course it can all go to sh*t with one bad driver but after the fiasco that has been the 2018 MacBook Pros and Apple software quality control I think its probably more stable to get a hackintosh laptop provided you can get it stable as then at least you can restore it to last known good settings and not be f*cked when Apple pushes an update you can't roll back on your legit Mac. Plus you can upgrade the storage. Thinkpads are the only PC laptops built to Mac standards. Pathetic state of affairs really...
Old 24th January 2019 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
brk303's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy ➡️
I'm not saying Windows laptops can't handle DAW work, but it's a minefield out there and IMHO it's just not worth the time screwing around.
Sadly, I would agree. I had a 2012 MBP that I used for years until yesterday when I got new Clevo top of the range laptop with i9-9900k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln ➡️
For laptop for DAW I would be looking at custom built Clevo by a reputable builder
Which is what I did, you can of course nit pick as to who is a reputable builder, but the reality is that laptop hardware is the same, so they can't really do much.

I asked specifically about DPC latency in advance and was quoted 200-300μs the reality is that it's actually much worse.

NVidia is of course main culprit, but even if you disable it and you disable wifi, network adapters, built in audio, and perform the usual "optimizations" you still get ACPI.sys, Wdf01000.sys, storport.sys, stornvme.sys, etc producing spikes of 700μs.

It really depends on what you're doing, for just mixing you can get away with it, but for low latency real time live usage it's a disaster.

I only just got the Clevo yesterday so I will continue to tweak, and am in contact with support, but it's already obvious to me it won't work any better. I barely get better performance on a laptop with top 8 core desktop CPU than I had on 6 year old MBP with 4 core mobile CPU.

What you end up with is CPU almost idle yet audio crackling. It's very frustrating more so when you spend a lot of money on it.

And I'm using RME, so the interface is not the problem.

Anyway, the new Macs are sadly also riddled with problems, so I'm afraid currently there really is no laptop suitable for low latency real time usage.

The only viable path is to use a desktop or rack build and pick components carefully or get it from a reputable DAW builder, but make sure to ask for DPC latency and money back guarantee if it doesn't work as advertised.

That would be my advice.

Oh, and speaking of reputable DAW builders, I asked several and only one said that in their opinion there is currently no laptop suitable for low latency audio work and thus they don't sell any. I didn't like that answer, but it seems to be the truth.

Last edited by brk303; 24th January 2019 at 08:57 PM..
Old 24th January 2019
  #9
Gear Head
 
2016 MSI GT72 Q6D

i7 6820HK overclocked 100% of the time (from 2.7) to 3.7GHz - with 32GB ram, 1TB Samsung 960 Pro NVMe and stock 1TB HGST 7200 HD. nVidia GeForce GTX 970M 3GB, 17" screen
Attached Thumbnails
Windows Laptops with good latency-screenshot-16-.jpg  
Old 24th January 2019
  #10
Gear Nut
 
Schmidi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've had great success with the "workstation" grade laptops. I personally stick with older i7 HP Elitebooks, but I've heard good things about Dell Precision and Think books as well.
Old 25th January 2019
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I have a Acer V 15 Nitro, which performed well till recently. I think it was after a Windows update that it lost power, had to bump up the buffer in my RME UCX from 128 to 256 to still run glitchfree.

Then I updated the network drivers and the graphiccard driver, I also checked for a new RME driver and there was even a firmware update for it.

after doing al that, et violá, all back to original speeds, glitch free and latecymon in full green!

The thing is, you need to check like every half year for these updates and don´t trust the windows update for
peripherals, always go to the manufacturer website and download from there.

Yes it´s a little bit more hassle than just fireing up a Macbook, but to be honest, getting the same or more power for half the price in the PC world I gladly do that 15 minutes update thing...
Old 26th January 2019
  #12
Lenovo V320-17IKB 17.3" (Intel graphics) after all the usual tweaks works fine with Dante virtual soundcard and Sequoia.

I recording classical stuff only so latency for me is not critical value.

Regards,
Norm

Last edited by [email protected]; 27th January 2019 at 05:10 PM..
Old 26th January 2019 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
brk303's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brk303 ➡️
I asked specifically about DPC latency in advance and was quoted 200-300μs the reality is that it's actually much worse.
OK, after two more days of tweaking I can report that things are better now, and I get peaks of no more than 350μs (with NVidia driver disabled)

I did many tweaks but I think it was mainly the power management settings of various devices that helped, network adapter in particular.

This is Clevo P751TM.
Old 27th January 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
 
fireberd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have a Dell Inspiron 15, 5577 model that Dell sells as a gaming laptop. I reimaged it with Windows 10 and needed drivers. Nothing else, using the Intel CPU graphics, and it does great for recording with Sonar or Studio One 4.1. Resplendence Latency Mon shows its very clean. Sonar reported latency with my MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid (USB connected) is 2.7 ms recording, output 3.3ms and 6.1ms total round trip latency, which is the same as what I get on my DAW desktop that uses an i7 6700K.

I'm field testing a new Dell G7 gaming laptop. It has both NVIDIA and the Intel CPU graphics. Using the NVIDIA it shows high page faults and no good for audio recording. But with the NVIDIA disabled and using the Intel CPU graphics its great for recording and Latency Mon is "happy". Sonar and the MOTU show the same latency as the Inspiron 15, 5577
Old 28th January 2019
  #15
Gear Addict
 
bcslaam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm runnng a Lenovo T440.
Swapped out the cpu for i7 4700M,
overspecked with 16GB ram,
ripped out the DVD drive and replaced with 1TB evo 860,
ripped out the 3g/4g sim module and replaced with 500GB mSATA drive for windows 10 1809,
put another 1TB evo in the normal HD bay.

thats 3 internal SSD

Run at 64 samples using Cantabile and Reaper

Use it for live gigs (Omnisphere, Kontakt pianos, VB3, NI synths, vocoder, amp sims - all good) and remote composition stuff. Also as an extra farm with VEPro in the studio. Very reliable, easy to open up and work on. All the chipsets are good, all usb ports work without problems. GB Network works well for Copperlan midi and VEPro.

Sound device: MOTU Traveller MKI the old firewire version. Using a SIIG PCIexpress54 card with TI chipset for firewire. When/if MOTU dies I will give it my Fireface 800 and upgrade my cue system interface.

I can vouch for the T and P series Lenovos as long as theyre not the S (small) versions cause they are hard to open up and they run hot. So be aware maxwelldub with the T480s, keep it cool
The Y series mentioned above I wouldnt be so sure about. The cheaper B series, forget it, different pc altogether.

Frankly Im surprised noone yet gives a vote of confidence for ADK or ScanPro for the lappies they make. I've never owned one but have read nothing but positive stories. Anyone who has one care to comment?

Last edited by bcslaam; 29th January 2019 at 04:19 AM..
Old 29th January 2019
  #16
Gear Addict
 
bcslaam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I see ADK audio dept has split off to Chris Ludwig of Fundamental AV. See this thread

Is ADK Pro Audio still in business?
Old 29th January 2019
  #17
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Lenovo Thinkpad P50 and Lenovo Miix 520, both working flawlessly running Bitwg. Interfaces are RME.
Old 29th January 2019 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmihe ➡️
2016 MSI GT72 Q6D

i7 6820HK overclocked 100% of the time (from 2.7) to 3.7GHz - with 32GB ram, 1TB Samsung 960 Pro NVMe and stock 1TB HGST 7200 HD. nVidia GeForce GTX 970M 3GB, 17" screen
Beast laptop but that desktop tho
Old 10th October 2019
  #19
i got a babyface, and i want a laptop that can do 64 buffers with 1 synth used at a a time.

DF
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