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Delay Compensation in Logic Pro 7 for Outboard: How Do YOU do it it?
Old 20th January 2007
  #1
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Delay Compensation in Logic Pro 7 for Outboard: How Do YOU do it it?

Okay, this is a sister thread to my much more irrational and psychotic "I wish apple would die" thread. The long and the short of it is, I'm having a hell of a time with Logic and I'm thinking of switching away from it unless someone can help me find a solution to this problem.

Problem is simple: I want to have the freedom to send a track out from Logic, through some outboard, back in through my converters and record the result on a new track. That new track can then be blended with the original for parallell compression, or used entirely on it's own. Whatever I see fit.

The problem is that there is of course delay introduced when it hits the converters, and so it sounds horribly phasey when played back along with the original material.

Cubase has auto-delay compensation as it's solution for such issues. I know Logic does not. So what are you Logic users doing to make use of your outboard in the above scenario? I tried using the "latency fixer" third party plugin on the newly created track, but it seems to delay the track further, rather than pull it back, which is the function I'm looking for. And even if I could pull it back, I'm not sure if the delay amount would be the same every time or not. Maybe it would?

I'm praying to the powers that be that there's a solution here. I just don't know if I have the energy to switch from Logic at this point. But I will, if there's really no other options.

Thanks for any further insight into this one.
Old 20th January 2007
  #2
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Check this thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=49855

I'm using outboard with Logic all the time, no issues at all
Old 20th January 2007 | Show parent
  #3
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DrDelta -- this is one interesting thing I'd not come across yet -- you put the latency fixer plug on the track you're sending OUT to outboard. I was putting it on the newly created track that was recorded in.

Either way thougrh, does that plugin not ADD delay, not remove it? Aren't we trying to pull tracks BACK in time, not more forward? Am I losing my mind?

And you just remove the I/O and latency fixer plugs from that channel once the recording of the new material is complete? I take it you'd have to, or the original material would effecitvely remain delayed....

Thanks for any insight my good man.
Old 20th January 2007 | Show parent
  #4
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray ➑️
Either way thougrh, does that plugin not ADD delay, not remove it? Aren't we trying to pull tracks BACK in time, not more forward? Am I losing my mind?
What Latency Fixer plugin does is having NO latency at all, but REPORTING a certain value of latency to Logic. This way, Logic can compensate for the I/O latency that isn't reported by the actual I/O plugin (that one reports only soundcard buffer size latency).
To have Logic compensate, latency compensation must be on of course in the Logic preferences. I prefer the 'all' setting there, as I also use I/O loops on busses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray ➑️
And you just remove the I/O and latency fixer plugs from that channel once the recording of the new material is complete? I take it you'd have to, or the original material would effecitvely remain delayed....
Correct. If you for example want to print a bassdrum track that uses an outboard compressor:
I solo the track, bounce it realtime. Afterwards, remove the I/O loop and Latency Fixer and simply replace the audio on that track by the bounced file.

For parallel compression, I normally use a send from the main ('unprocessed') track to a bus. On that bus (or on an aux track with that bus as input, depending on your way of working), I insert the I/O loop and the Latency Fixer. Now if you want to print only the parallel track: solo the original track and the aux/bus, but make sure the output of the main ('unprocessed') track isn't routed to the main output on which you bounce. This way, you'll end up with a bounce of only the parallel track. Afterwards, reassign the output of the main track, and add the parallel bounced file on a new track.

Nowadays, I hardly ever print outboard gear, I always leave it running realtime (8 analog I/O at once). Works perfect
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #5
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sonicdefault's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Hi,
The best way to manually compensate for the latency is to play back the track(s) in Logic which were recorded with the outboard, and at the same time, play back the original track(s) (before they were sent to your outboard gear). Then, while monitoring both sets of tracks, adjust Logic's delay parameter for the newly recorded track(s) until you hear them all sync up with the most amount of phase cancellation. You can then make note of the delay setting you've just calculated for the external routing setup of that specific outboard gear you used. That way, you only have to do it once for every routing scheme, and you'll know all the settings for your external gear whenever you record through them again. By the way, if you use percussion tracks or any source material which has a fast attack when you first go to discover your various gear's latency, it is of course much easier and more precise. Hope this helps.
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #6
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You need to calculate/search this delay value only once per convertor combo as analog outboardgear itself has no latency. It's the convertor (DA + AD) latency you need to compensate. Since most people work with the same kind of DA and AD convertors on all their I/O, you'd only have to measure this once
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #7
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Holy **** DrDelta, I got it working. Much simpler than the bussing, I'm just routing out to the outboard, record enabling a new "return" audio track, recording back onto it and then putting the latency fixer on that track. Done like dinner.

Thanks for your help man, that really buys me some time while I wait for Apple to get their **** straight!!
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #8
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray ➑️
Holy **** DrDelta, I got it working. Much simpler than the bussing, I'm just routing out to the outboard, record enabling a new "return" audio track, recording back onto it and then putting the latency fixer on that track. Done like dinner.

Thanks for your help man, that really buys me some time while I wait for Apple to get their **** straight!!
Ah yes, that'd work great as well, and is indeed a handier way if you plan to print all the outboard anyway
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #9
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shangoe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
do someone know if there is a plug like latency fixer working in logic 5.5 mac (vst)...?

sorry, i know i am still in the logic - stoneage...
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #10
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Ravian's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by shangoe ➑️
do someone know if there is a plug like latency fixer working in logic 5.5 mac (vst)...?

sorry, i know i am still in the logic - stoneage...
mmmhhhh does the logic plug "sample delay" ring a bell.

love'd logic audio 5.5 by the way
Old 21st January 2007 | Show parent
  #11
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shangoe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravian ➑️
mmmhhhh does the logic plug "sample delay" ring a bell.

love'd logic audio 5.5 by the way

i know that! the reason i ask is: its not possible to dial in a negative delay, so i have to delay all other tracks exept the one which was going OTB...just thought there may be a easier way....
Old 22nd January 2007 | Show parent
  #12
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Ravian's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by shangoe ➑️
i know that! the reason i ask is: its not possible to dial in a negative delay, so i have to delay all other tracks exept the one which was going OTB...just thought there may be a easier way....
mmmmhhhh maybe you can experiment with the delay in front of the audio track.
(in the upper left corner of the screen)it hass negative and positive delay.
like maybe when you want to go outboard. for a test you have a hi-hat track
and you copy that ,so track: 1 hi-hat
track 2: copy hi-hat
then you have to put the i/o plug on track 2 that wil go to your hardware and back
(no prosessing on the hardware side comp maybe 1:1)
than track 2 has a delay. right
so you go to the upper left corner (still track 2)and you dail in a positive delay.
on the delay section (it can be samples or ms)
you tune it until the hi-hats match.(you could even flip the phase on 1 hi-hat,so it disapears when you got it right(pan hard L &R ).
so now you got a positive value you can dail in when you are using hardware.
it only compensates for the converters.
hope this wil help.
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