The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Acustica audio acqua plugins general discussion
Old 9th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27091
Lives for gear
 
plexus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Anyone who buys software should consider it disposable. After transfer costs basically worthless. These guys give you some free ones so consider yourself lucky. It costs them money maintaining databases etc. Also takes away buyers if you think about it.

Between sales and discounts I haven’t paid more than for a good algo and most AA products are multiple with free updates. That’s another revenue stream they forego so maybe tone down the rhetoric....

these are small operations and I’d be surprised on the risk reward scale if they’d be models for a business school profit center....
Supporting a free-to-inexpesnive no-NFR license transfer policy is a best practice - there are more devs, big and small, doing it than not. In some cases some devs have technical debt that don't make it cost effective to implement but they know they should. AA has the infrastructure to support it but they won't. That's just hostile to those customers that care. To those that don't care, like yourself, it has no effect on you. Just let those of us that care, voice our concerns. You can voice the things you are concerned about. there is no benefit to you to fight us - if it's a matter of our posts, dont read them or put me on your ignore list. This is an importnat issue to some of us costomers whether you like it or not. Fighting us on here is not going to serve any good purpose other than perhaps as place for you channel your anger... or, something. just put me on your ignore list because I'm not going to stop bringing it up.
Old 9th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27092
Lives for gear
 
plexus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
And, you know, I was just going to try and write a post about how despite how AA's license transfer polocy irritates me to no end, I do appreciate.... yadda yadda... but, now I'm not in the mood. Another day....
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27093
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus ➡️
Supporting a free-to-inexpesnive no-NFR license transfer policy is a best practice - there are more devs, big and small, doing it than not. In some cases some devs have technical debt that don't make it cost effective to implement but they know they should. AA has the infrastructure to support it but they won't. That's just hostile to those customers that care. To those that don't care, like yourself, it has no effect on you. Just let those of us that care, voice our concerns. You can voice the things you are concerned about. there is no benefit to you to fight us - if it's a matter of our posts, dont read them or put me on your ignore list. This is an importnat issue to some of us costomers whether you like it or not. Fighting us on here is not going to serve any good purpose other than perhaps as place for you channel your anger... or, something. just put me on your ignore list because I'm not going to stop bringing it up.
Yes of course, I understand your point of view, but you should also try to understand ours.
It's clear that we can do anything, and you can take suggestions of what other software vendors are doing, but you have to understand all the expense items that create a cost in our business model:

- almost all of our products have free update cycles
- each update often introduces new elements
- we have a very generous and incredibly long trial policy
- the management of slots and the number of licenses on computers is quite free
- our downloads are quite large, and added to the previous points, everything translates into very high management costs, because users download all the time and we produce all the time

But it doesn't end here

- we provide refunds if the products are not liked (other costs)
- we provide consistent discount policies for which it is very easy to buy a product at the price you want (often the new price is more advantageous than buying at a high price and resell)

In addition
- we provide a completely free transfer system for five times for arbitrary number of products and each product transferable five times at both times
- we don't have subscriptions (a practical way to generate constant cashflow), so we have to base our livelihood on producing new software, or on a discount policy that is more profitable than reselling users, who without resale rules can actively compete with our policies (and sometimes buy on sale with the sole purpose of having a margin in a future sale)


Putting all these points together, you'll understand that if we want to stay on our feet we have to have some compromise, in the end it's a short blanket. We try to accommodate everyone, but we also have to fill the fridge somehow!

In my opinion, the more you try to bring attention to the topic, the more it will come out that our policy is out of whack, completely generous compared to other things I've seen around.
Maybe if we start giving away products for free we can beat the current situation!
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27094
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Anyone who buys software should consider it disposable. After transfer costs basically worthless. These guys give you some free ones so consider yourself lucky. It costs them money maintaining databases etc. Also takes away buyers if you think about it.

Between sales and discounts I haven’t paid more than for a good algo and most AA products are multiple with free updates. That’s another revenue stream they forego so maybe tone down the rhetoric....

these are small operations and I’d be surprised on the risk reward scale if they’d be models for a business school profit center....
Yea...
Old 10th March 2021
  #27095
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have a pretty high threshold before I complain about things but I've got to say.. just bought an M1 MacBook Pro 16GB ram and was hoping to get a little more performance out of the Acustica plugins. Unfortunately, they perform as poorly with the new system as they did with the old. That's to say, there's zero change. While every manufacturer's plugins in Pro Tools under the Big Sur and the new computer outperformed my expectations - from Slate to Waves to Plugin Alliance, SoundToys and beyond - Acustica just, well, blows. Makes me sad to say it. I'm sure someone here is going to say "well, they're not optimized for the new M1 chip yet!" But that's still no excuse. Acustica plugins have always seemed to be coded like crap. And I don't buy that it's because they're CPU intensive. For instance, I'd love to use Sand more, but I've had several instances where I start a module in the EQ section and no matter what, it doesn't work. Or they crash the DAW entirely. That seems more like a coding issue to me than something that's CPU-intensive. But I'm just an end user who's looking to get the best tools for his day to day. It's a hindrance to workflow. They are the best sounding plugins I've heard, but the coding is just horrible. Furthermore, it seems there's a laissez-faire attitude with the company. There's no signs whatsoever of offering what might be an optimized or ideal system for running their plugins - although, if I can't get any better performance out of an M1, what's the point? Even though I love the sound of Acustica, I've gotten by with UA and the rest of the bunch just fine. At 96KHz, they're all competitive and open sounding. Okay, rant done. Don't bother to pick it apart; I've spent about $1500+ on Acustica in the last couple of months and I'm entitled to my opinion. Cheers.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27096
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Hi @ RSI01 there is a Pro-Tools optimizations steps our support can provide if you open a ticket at our help-desk. Bear in mind the M1 compatible products are on the work. More details on this list: https://www.acustica-audio.com/pages...con-compatible
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27097
Lives for gear
 
theothermarkwilliams's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM ➡️
Cobalt2 has been added to the ARM Silicon / Big Sur compatibility list.
https://www.acustica-audio.com/pages...con-compatible

Hi @ AcusticaCM , thanks for the update!

Quick question for you: I haven't seen anything about Acustica's plans for Apple ARM support with Nebula. Is that going to happen? Will there be a native Apple Silicon version of Nebula coming at some point?

Thanks!
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27098
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks. Sorry for the attitude. I'll check the links you provided, I appreciate it. It's been a 12 hour mix day between two clients and I was having issues with Amethyst and Pink throughout the day :/ I'm looking forward to the forthcoming multi-core M1 machines coming next year and am hoping to feature an AA-heavy workflow. I'll check out the links when I come up for air.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27099
Gear Maniac
 
loudscape's Avatar
 
who needs romance novels when you've got 900+ pages of passion right here!
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27100
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
You're welcome! I replied you in the Nebula thread, same as the Acquas, during this year without a specific time frame. Our development team is working very hard on several projects and taking one product at the time, checking the issues that needs to be fixed and working on the M1/Big Sur/compatibility one at a time. I'll keep you all updated.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27101
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
Thanks. Sorry for the attitude. I'll check the links you provided, I appreciate it. It's been a 12 hour mix day between two clients and I was having issues with Amethyst and Pink throughout the day :/ I'm looking forward to the forthcoming multi-core M1 machines coming next year and am hoping to feature an AA-heavy workflow. I'll check out the links when I come up for air.
No worries at all! Kind regards.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27102
Lives for gear
 
theothermarkwilliams's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM ➡️
You're welcome! I replied you in the Nebula thread, same as the Acquas, during this year without a specific time frame. Our development team is working very hard on several projects and taking one product at the time, checking the issues that needs to be fixed and working on the M1/Big Sur/compatibility one at a time. I'll keep you all updated.
Excellent! Thank you so much!
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27103
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
@ AcusticaCM

Coffee is coming up on being a year old soon. Any plans for an update in the near future?
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27104
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
I have a pretty high threshold before I complain about things but I've got to say.. just bought an M1 MacBook Pro 16GB ram and was hoping to get a little more performance out of the Acustica plugins. Unfortunately, they perform as poorly with the new system as they did with the old. That's to say, there's zero change. While every manufacturer's plugins in Pro Tools under the Big Sur and the new computer outperformed my expectations - from Slate to Waves to Plugin Alliance, SoundToys and beyond - Acustica just, well, blows. Makes me sad to say it. I'm sure someone here is going to say "well, they're not optimized for the new M1 chip yet!" But that's still no excuse. Acustica plugins have always seemed to be coded like crap. And I don't buy that it's because they're CPU intensive. For instance, I'd love to use Sand more, but I've had several instances where I start a module in the EQ section and no matter what, it doesn't work. Or they crash the DAW entirely. That seems more like a coding issue to me than something that's CPU-intensive. But I'm just an end user who's looking to get the best tools for his day to day. It's a hindrance to workflow. They are the best sounding plugins I've heard, but the coding is just horrible. Furthermore, it seems there's a laissez-faire attitude with the company. There's no signs whatsoever of offering what might be an optimized or ideal system for running their plugins - although, if I can't get any better performance out of an M1, what's the point? Even though I love the sound of Acustica, I've gotten by with UA and the rest of the bunch just fine. At 96KHz, they're all competitive and open sounding. Okay, rant done. Don't bother to pick it apart; I've spent about $1500+ on Acustica in the last couple of months and I'm entitled to my opinion. Cheers.
Sand was not translated at M1. It will be

In brief:
- products that have not been ported to M1 have difficulty being translated from M1 due to some limitations of Rosetta, which is often unable to translate runtime execution of code from memory written for Intel. In a nutshell Apple said, "no worries, we've released a new architecture but rest assured, our automated conversion process will work perfectly." Too bad it's not true for everything or everyone, i.e. it fails, it fails in some specific cases. If one does a Google search one will read about a lot of software that has stability problems as a result of automatic conversion. It has been talked about for a long time, a lot of things still don't work for me, and it's not all and only audio applications. On the new m1 I have so many problems at so many levels, precisely because this conversion is what it is, just an automatic conversion of something written for one architecture to another, and is a monstrously complex process.

- there is little we can do to fix plugins written for Intel. It is a limitation of Rosetta2 in the translation. We could rewrite the products for Intel.... But what would be the point? Apple just said Intel's days are numbered, not to mention its hours are numbered. Then I'd have to write code for Intel to be translated better to silicon on a silicon? What would be the point? If one has a silicon I expect it to natively run silicon hosts and silicon plugins. I expect plugin companies to do the conversion (and we are doing it) and sequencer companies to do the conversion, and everyone finally runs silicon natively.
The fact that we can't mix architectures is Apple's problem, not the sequencer developers. They have solved the problem in logic audio, i.e. they can have a manager that run either Rosetta or Silicon plugins, but they have not explained to any sequencer developer how to do it.

- we can only port plugins to silicon and they work very well, instead of having hosts (sequencers) written for silicon, and I see that the situation is definitely very confusing: most of the hosts have not undergone the porting process yet. It's surely not our fault, we can only wait

- for the Logic Audio case only Apple has unintentionally added security requirements in a sudden way that prevent for other reasons the execution of code from memory even for the native silicon case, but we will soon release a solution that I would call final, based on some kind of driver. This only happens on Silicon because it affects Logic's new Silicon handler, but it's not an architecture issue. As if that wasn't enough to add to the confusion, Apple's super-security process is going on, and it affects plugins loaded natively by their sequencer. Normally developers can relax some security constraints, but this is not the case, Logic being an Apple process with all security systems fired to the max without revocation, forgetting that they are trivial audio plugins, not threatening browsers ready to destroy the operating system with malware.

Everything will have a solution, and it's a matter of time. After all, we were warned about the presence of a new processor only in June last year, out of the blue, at an international conference, without warning. I'm not talking about us at Acustica, I'm talking about the international community of all developers, who knew that overnight the game would change forever, without warning, with a "in less than two years you won't see an Intel processor" style plan in our products. Software developers around the world weren't ready for this, so I'm not surprised to still see little native software nine months later. It's not like they were all ready with the F5 key to refresh Safari and start with the massive rewrite or massive recompilation of all the code. As we can see, much of the software still runs in emulation, not native. I would say that's a normal thing.

They released the first Macs after six months, letting everyone know that the Rosetta2 auto-conversion system magically worked for everything, and it didn't.
If you bought an M1 for audio I'd say it's a bit early: the switch to Catalina took a lot of software a year to make and it was only a small software adaptation related to executable signing, let alone now that everything has really changed and nobody was ready. The operating system has changed and the processor has changed! I understand that to a user this seems small, but often protection systems are tied at a low level with the very architecture of the processor, and it's completely random what might continue to work easily and what might not.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27105
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
Thanks. Sorry for the attitude. I'll check the links you provided, I appreciate it. It's been a 12 hour mix day between two clients and I was having issues with Amethyst and Pink throughout the day :/ I'm looking forward to the forthcoming multi-core M1 machines coming next year and am hoping to feature an AA-heavy workflow. I'll check out the links when I come up for air.
No problem, I just read this message. I don't think it's your fault at all to react this way, I would have too if I were in your place. Unfortunately, the situation on Silicon is still very premature, and it's a combination of what we need to do but also what others need to do. I can convert any of our products, but we need the sequencer developers doing it to really take advantage of this new situation.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27106
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
I have a pretty high threshold before I complain about things but I've got to say.. just bought an M1 MacBook Pro 16GB ram and was hoping to get a little more performance out of the Acustica plugins. Unfortunately, they perform as poorly with the new system as they did with the old. That's to say, there's zero change.
All I can add is that working on my M1 Mac Book Pro is my absolute best musical experience on a laptop ever... and don't even get me started about editing video on the thing, it's just a beast. If AA can get their tech written properly to fully take advantage of the ARM processors it will be game changing, if not it will be unfortunate. I'm diversified at this point with Nebula and my favorite Acqua's, select native algo's, some UAD, and unique character hardware (my OTO Bam's getting abused lately). I'm in next tool up mode, there's music to be made and no time for excuses.

As always to each their own.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27107
Lives for gear
 
denork's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
I have a pretty high threshold before I complain about things but I've got to say.. just bought an M1 MacBook Pro 16GB ram and was hoping to get a little more performance out of the Acustica plugins. Unfortunately, they perform as poorly with the new system as they did with the old. That's to say, there's zero change. While every manufacturer's plugins in Pro Tools under the Big Sur and the new computer outperformed my expectations - from Slate to Waves to Plugin Alliance, SoundToys and beyond - Acustica just, well, blows. Makes me sad to say it. I'm sure someone here is going to say "well, they're not optimized for the new M1 chip yet!" But that's still no excuse. Acustica plugins have always seemed to be coded like crap. And I don't buy that it's because they're CPU intensive. For instance, I'd love to use Sand more, but I've had several instances where I start a module in the EQ section and no matter what, it doesn't work. Or they crash the DAW entirely. That seems more like a coding issue to me than something that's CPU-intensive. But I'm just an end user who's looking to get the best tools for his day to day. It's a hindrance to workflow. They are the best sounding plugins I've heard, but the coding is just horrible. Furthermore, it seems there's a laissez-faire attitude with the company. There's no signs whatsoever of offering what might be an optimized or ideal system for running their plugins - although, if I can't get any better performance out of an M1, what's the point? Even though I love the sound of Acustica, I've gotten by with UA and the rest of the bunch just fine. At 96KHz, they're all competitive and open sounding. Okay, rant done. Don't bother to pick it apart; I've spent about $1500+ on Acustica in the last couple of months and I'm entitled to my opinion. Cheers.
It's funny that you blame AA, when the blame is on how the DAW itself manages resources.

If reaper can run AA plug-ins without messing it up, it's clearly the DAW's fault.

I work with Ableton and Reaper, in Ableton I can't run even half the plugins as in Reaper, in Ableton, when the CPU is 70%, I already have problems, Reaper does not give me any problem until the CPU reaches 99.5 %.

I can run 85 channel strip with everything active on an i7-8700k with 32gb of RAM.

You cannot compare algorithmic plugins with convolution plugins, if you use the IK tapes that use convolution, you will also have CPU problems.

However, there are optimizations, in the AA group there is a user who uses pro tools on an old mac pro and can open quite a few of them.
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27108
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
@ zaphod and @ AcusticaCM

Ok! I repent! Lol That’s the most courteous, informed and honest answer I think I’ve ever received from anyone regarding a complaint for a product - issues over which you clearly have no control. Thank you for taking the time to write and explain all of that without being upset at my less-than-congenial tone. With all respect, I apologize for my initial post; I should’ve known better than to go off the handle.

Part of the frustration is banking on new technology and assimilating it as seamlessly into the workflow with as little disruption as possible. On a personal note, my concurrent 30-year career in live audio came to a screeching halt last March because of all that’s happened and I’ve pivoted into studio recording and mixing full time, which has created some stress where there was none before. (Ironically, the very last show I did was last March with an Italian audio crew who had just lost a run of dates due to covid and were saddened by what was happening in their home country. They were the first casualties I had seen who lost a fair amount of revenue from all of this.)

Your reply is much appreciated and I look forward to being a long-time AA user. I’ll review all of the links posted in the replies here and be sure to incorporate them into my practice.

Last edited by RSI01; 10th March 2021 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: Forgot to address recipients
Old 10th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27109
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSI01 ➡️
@ zaphod and @ AcusticaCM

Ok! I repent! Lol That’s the most courteous, informed and honest answer I think I’ve ever received from anyone regarding a complaint for a product - issues over which you clearly have no control. Thank you for taking the time to write and explain all of that without being upset at my less-than-congenial tone. With all respect, I apologize for my initial post; I should’ve known better than to go off the handle.

Part of the frustration is banking on new technology and assimilating it as seamlessly into the workflow with as little disruption as possible. On a personal note, my concurrent 30-year career in live audio came to a screeching halt last March because of all that’s happened and I’ve pivoted into studio recording and mixing full time, which has created some stress where there was none before. (Ironically, the very last show I did was last March with an Italian audio crew who had just lost a run of dates due to covid and were saddened by what was happening in their home country. They were the first casualties I had seen who lost a fair amount of revenue from all of this.)

Your reply is much appreciated and I look forward to being a long-time AA user. I’ll review all of the links posted in the replies here and be sure to incorporate them into my practice.
Thank you, very appreciated!
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27110
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafishy ➡️
@ AcusticaCM

Coffee is coming up on being a year old soon. Any plans for an update in the near future?
It still holds up pretty well IMHO
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27111
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Will there ever be a Pearl3?
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27112
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM ➡️
It still holds up pretty well IMHO
Well, I am sure that it does, but I have ulterior motives you see.



I have and love (love love) the original Acqua version of BluEQ. Nothing rocks my snares and guitars like this plugin does. I didn't take advantage of the intro offer on Coffee, so what I was really wondering was whether or not a deep sale was planned for Coffee in the foreseeable future.

I'm in no rush because BluEQ is fine and functioning here without issue, but just to be able to get something comparable, with expanded functionality and future updates and maintenance, I will likely pick it up when it goes down again.

Cheers man, and thanks for all you do around here.
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27113
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafishy ➡️
Well, I am sure that it does, but I have ulterior motives you see.



I have and love (love love) the original Acqua version of BluEQ. Nothing rocks my snares and guitars like this plugin does. I didn't take advantage of the intro offer on Coffee, so what I was really wondering was whether or not a deep sale was planned for Coffee in the foreseeable future.

I'm in no rush because BluEQ is fine and functioning here without issue, but just to be able to get something comparable, with expanded functionality and future updates and maintenance, I will likely pick it up when it goes down again.

Cheers man, and thanks for all you do around here.
Thank you for your kind words, we usually do a big sale in the middle of the year, and time seems to be going faster somehow, so the wait will be short.
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27114
Gear Maniac
 
jBranam's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
time speeds up as you get older lol
Old 11th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27115
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBranam ➡️
time speeds up as you get older lol
Yes, you are right.
Old 11th March 2021
  #27116
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
tell me ....... :|


no wait ... not time.
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27117
Gear Maniac
 
Mightmosaic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Id like to know this too.
Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27118
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannymac ➡️
Will there ever be a Pearl3?
I have no information on this, at least in the short term, sorry.
Old 12th March 2021
  #27119
Acustica Audio
 
AcusticaCM's Avatar
Sienna is coming...
https://www.sienna.studio

Old 12th March 2021 | Show parent
  #27120
Lives for gear
 
Volt9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcusticaCM ➡️
Sienna is coming...
https://www.sienna.studio

I am not a mixer/masterer on headphones, but you got my attention!
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4616 views: 609902
Avatar for smoke
smoke 4 days ago
replies: 97 views: 36533
Avatar for mowmow
mowmow 15th September 2010
replies: 360 views: 45214
Avatar for Symphony Sid
Symphony Sid 7th August 2019
replies: 235 views: 48672
Avatar for The_Ogre
The_Ogre 2nd April 2021
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump