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Acustica audio acqua plugins general discussion
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24061
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Guys that pay full price do so because they want the latest tools and realize that saving time in a session actually saves them money.
If you’re going to pay full price, there is absolutely no reason to buy from a third party, when you can buy straight from the company for the same price.
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24062
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy ➡️
I traded 2 plugins with a new customer (thankfully it was only 25 euro fee) and now he tells me that he owns about 10 plugins in a very short time.

Yes some will try to break the re-sale system to make profit and a new business model out of re-selling, but those are a minority and I'm sure they can get identified quick enough.
Absolutely
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24063
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by London Acoustics ➡️
Hi, check the new N4 update version 2.1.009 (R024)
Yes it should be very good
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24064
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scalawag ➡️
Do they charge a fee if i sell an Aqua plugin at exactly the same price i've bought it? Say i've bought an Aqua on a flash sale for 69$ and want to sell it for the same price? I don't want to take a profit. I just want to sell a product i don't use.
Yes I expect a loss. Wait the product is full price, this is the right time for selling it.
A better calculation could be performed, but it should be achieved by an algorithm
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24065
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Ok I’ll play... Guys that pay full price do so because they want the latest tools and realize that saving time in a session actually saves them money. $200 for a tool isn’t a lot if you do this for a living...

Sales take time to kick in and early buyers shouldn’t be punished by their resale being devalued.

You paid full price for hardware and maintenance so a different animal....software isn’t free to maintain and develop either. Who are you to be telling someone how to price their product? ILok again is a different model and is only a licensing system not the developers cost to maintain and upgrade their product....
Really really a lot of people are paying full price for all products. So it should not an issue to sell expecting a loss from the trade.
Let's say the fee is 25 more the full price (retrieving discounts), you have just to lower the price a bit and you have a buyer
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24066
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Nevermind
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24067
Gear Guru
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artcutech ➡️
If you’re going to pay full price, there is absolutely no reason to buy from a third party, when you can buy straight from the company for the same price.
The question was who pays full price and obviously you wouldn’t buy from a reseller without a discount....

The point is AA does keep some value in their plug ins through their resale policy...
Old 11th June 2020
  #24068
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
The question was who pays full price and obviously you wouldn’t buy from a reseller without a discount....
Ahh I see, this just had me a little confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
I don’t get why the fees are a problem. They are simply asking you to sell at full price.
Old 11th June 2020
  #24069
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As a practical matter Acustica: a flat-rate $25 is standard around the industry and you'd have money flying in like never before and nearly all angry licensees should have one less thing to be unhappy about. Those $25's add up fast. When there are zero resales because of an obsolete policy - $25 adds up!
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24070
Gear Guru
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM ➡️
As a practical matter Acustica: a flat-rate $25 is standard around the industry and you'd have money flying in like never before and nearly all angry licensees should have one less thing to be unhappy about. Those $25's add up fast. When there are zero resales because of an obsolete policy - $25 adds up!
So I buy a plug in for full price and someone buys it for half what does that do for the resale value?

AA bills itself as a premium brand not like PIA which lives it seems these days on voucher sales and subscriptions....

AA doesn’t make money off resales and I doubt other companies do either... iLok is licensing not to the developer fwiw..
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24071
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
So I buy a plug in for full price and someone buys it for half what does that do for the resale value?

AA bills itself as a premium brand not like PIA which lives it seems these days on voucher sales and subscriptions....

AA doesn’t make money off resales and I doubt other companies do either... iLok is licensing not to the developer fwiw..
At Plugin Boutique there is AIR Hybrid3 synth which lists for $129.99. I bought mine for $1 a couple holidays ago. It's currently at $14.99. It's all thee values depending what the licensee gets out of it. I was there at the right time for a $1 deal. When the price goes up to over $100, I have every right to sell it...

But... like anything else, some parties have reason to raise quick cash at the end of some months, and that's why we have sales. We do that forfeiting some of the possible profit in the hopes of reaching our goals.

There can be another angle to this, if Acustica found a way to exploit NFR sales. That would get the policy up front. Maybe even a 3 or 4 tiered system like Melodyne with accompanying upgrade prices.

I'm just thinking out loud. But I will tell you as an American, the current policy is stifling sales because there are unknowns that make a person think they are wise to put money where the downside is minimal.

You don't have to invent a new Lamborghini, you already did that. We're just washing the mud and waxing it pretty. See, that was fun too
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24072
Lives for gear
 
plexus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy ➡️
At least make it like ilok, $25 per plugin and that's it, without extra drama.
This. Allow unfettered efficient license transfers for a nominal cost. Even iLok's $25 is too much IMHO. Then you can foster a vibrant 2nd hand market and pick up even more paying customers as they gravitate towards your brand.

To maximize profit, build an online automated transfer system with the nominal charge. This will require less customer service effort related to transfers.

Many audio software companies realize this and have been enjoying additional business because of it. Others, well... miss the mark because of arbitrary poor decision making.
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24073
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Ok I’ll play... Guys that pay full price do so because they want the latest tools and realize that saving time in a session actually saves them money. $200 for a tool isn’t a lot if you do this for a living...

Sales take time to kick in and early buyers shouldn’t be punished by their resale being devalued.

You paid full price for hardware and maintenance so a different animal....software isn’t free to maintain and develop either. Who are you to be telling someone how to price their product? ILok again is a different model and is only a licensing system not the developers cost to maintain and upgrade their product....
So AA didn't devalue their early adopters (of whatever Acqua plugin) who paid full price when they did some flush sales and selling a 199 Euro plugin for 75 Euro .. But they will devalue their early buyers if a customer wants to re-sell a plugin for the same price that he purchased the plugin for (maybe less or more by 10 or 20 USD max).

Do you really think this makes sense?
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24074
Gear Guru
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM ➡️
At Plugin Boutique there is AIR Hybrid3 synth which lists for $129.99. I bought mine for $1 a couple holidays ago. It's currently at $14.99. It's all thee values depending what the licensee gets out of it. I was there at the right time for a $1 deal. When the price goes up to over $100, I have every right to sell it...

But... like anything else, some parties have reason to raise quick cash at the end of some months, and that's why we have sales. We do that forfeiting some of the possible profit in the hopes of reaching our goals.

There can be another angle to this, if Acustica found a way to exploit NFR sales. That would get the policy up front. Maybe even a 3 or 4 tiered system like Melodyne with accompanying upgrade prices.

I'm just thinking out loud. But I will tell you as an American, the current policy is stifling sales because there are unknowns that make a person think they are wise to put money where the downside is minimal.

You don't have to invent a new Lamborghini, you already did that. We're just washing the mud and waxing it pretty. See, that was fun too
Wtf does being an American have to do with it?! A lesson in Capitalism? Good luck selling your $1 tool for $100!..
Amway sounds like a good career move lol...!

second hand markets don’t make developers money much less devaluing their product....not very astute business...
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24075
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus ➡️
This. Allow unfettered efficient license transfers for a nominal cost. Even iLok's $25 is too much IMHO. Then you can foster a vibrant 2nd hand market and pick up even more paying customers as they gravitate towards your brand.

To maximize profit, build an online automated transfer system with the nominal charge. This will require less customer service effort related to transfers.

Many audio software companies realize this and have been enjoying additional business because of it. Others, well... miss the mark because of arbitrary poor decision making.
In fact, those who want to sell or trade their plugin because it becomes rarely used in their session they'll act like promoters trying to sign more people in the party without meaning to do so, just because they want to sell that 1 or 2 unused plugins. So that way you'll get your 25 fee plus free promotion on all the pro-audio groups and forums.
Old 11th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24076
Gear Guru
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy ➡️
So AA didn't devalue their early adopters (of whatever Acqua plugin) who paid full price when they did some flush sales and selling a 199 Euro plugin for 75 Euro .. But they will devalue their early buyers if a customer wants to re-sell a plugin for the same price that he purchased the plugin for (maybe less or more by 10 or 20 USD max).

Do you really think this makes sense?
Did you read what I wrote? Sales take time and even a $200- tool is pretty cheap compared to hardware. I don’t see people selling AA for $20- so maybe think about that....it’s a premium brand for a reason...you want $25- plug ins lotsa good ones out there.

Look if I buy a tool and use it for 6 months before a sale I chalk the money I spent to paying myself for the pleasure of having that tool to use. Given the amount of time I spend on music, money well spent....if I was doing this professionally saving an hour of time pays for the tool easily no?

If you don’t value your time that’s fine, but people that pay premiums aren’t stupid and value theirs....
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24077
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Did you read what I wrote? Sales take time and even a $200- tool is pretty cheap compared to hardware. I don’t see people selling AA for $20- so maybe think about that....it’s a premium brand for a reason...you want $25- plug ins lotsa good ones out there.

Look if I buy a tool and use it for 6 months before a sale I chalk the money I spent to paying myself for the pleasure of having that tool to use. Given the amount of time I spend on music, money well spent....if I was doing this professionally saving an hour of time pays for the tool easily no?

If you don’t value your time that’s fine, but people that pay premiums aren’t stupid and value theirs....
Maybe you need to read again and try to understand what I said in my last comment to you ...
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24078
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis ➡️
Wtf does being an American have to do with it?! A lesson in Capitalism? Good luck selling your $1 tool for $100!..
Amway sounds like a good career move lol...!

second hand markets don’t make developers money much less devaluing their product....not very astute business...
America's name comes from Amerigo Vespucci, old Nebula guy . Put it this way ardis, if there's a poll of Americans who like the system or think it's way off the norm and bad for everybody, I think the vote would go for quick change and a stable model.

As for the $1 program, I took the several weeks in my spare time to condense 4,000 presets. So the value of mine, to me, is going to be higher than someone who doesn't know what any of it sounds like.

Maybe I should have cited Melodyne's Black Friday prices and why my iLok cost half to load than outside that season, instead of my talking about a $1 plugin.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24079
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus ➡️
This. Allow unfettered efficient license transfers for a nominal cost. Even iLok's $25 is too much IMHO. Then you can foster a vibrant 2nd hand market and pick up even more paying customers as they gravitate towards your brand.

To maximize profit, build an online automated transfer system with the nominal charge. This will require less customer service effort related to transfers.

Many audio software companies realize this and have been enjoying additional business because of it. Others, well... miss the mark because of arbitrary poor decision making.
They aren't under obligation to support a second hand product, however the system links that in. It feels punitive to not allow updates for a purchase regardless of how it was obtained, but Acustica's updates are among the most unique, value-driven, and current (i.e. there aren't swathes of products which fall out of use).

I don't know. Normally I'm pretty free market capitalist in these situations. The end user support is really the difference to me, as zaphod mentioned.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24080
Gear Guru
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy ➡️
Maybe you need to read again and try to understand what I said in my last comment to you ...
You don’t understand that time of use is the answer? It takes months for AA to put products on sale... Also discounting resale off a sale price is cheapening a product?

At the end of the day I really don’t care but listening to people slagging AA as being unscrupulous and profiting off of reselling their products to me is ignorant.
Old 12th June 2020
  #24081
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Do I like AA's resale policy..... nope.

We all need to remember that when we purchase a software plugin, we don't own the plugin, we are just granted a license to use that plugin. AA is under no obligation to allow us to sell or share their license they grant us to use. So they set all the rules and we end users are at their mercy when it comes to reselling their licenses.

Our only real choice is to vote with our money.

If you want to follow AA's resale policy, buy their plugins.
If you don't want to follow AA's resale policy, don't buy their plugins.
So if you want the freedom to resell what you purchase at your terms, buy hardware.
Old 12th June 2020
  #24082
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've not once ever looked at, or considered a Companies, 're-sell' policy for any software app or plugin.

I bought because I wanted/needed it.

Does that mean I use it/them for everything I do .... hardly.

There are plenty I haven't touched in many months ... then a Project will come in that they would be ideal for.

Same applies to 'multiple' emulations of a given plugin ... I have the PA Bax and the Coral Baxter. Though similar ... they are different,
and one of them will work better than the other on a given assignment.

Further ... most every Company gives plenty of Demo time through Trials. There are a few exceptions that require a purchase will a full refund option.

As long as the Demo is functional ...with maybe the ability to do a Trail extension [due to scheduling or other factors], that is all I need.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24083
Gear Addict
 
UltraByte's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo ➡️

We all need to remember that when we purchase a software plugin, we don't own the plugin, we are just granted a license to use that plugin. AA is under no obligation to allow us to sell or share their license they grant us to use.
US consumer laws (or lack of) are not valid around the globe. ToS/EULA does not supersede law.

besides that i dont actually plan to sell any AA plugins.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24084
Gear Head
 
drumsareme's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Midi control and automation

Hi.

Can anyone tell me if Acqua and N4 are now parameter automation controllable ?

And are we able to control knobs and switches via Midi or Hardware controllers ?


Thanks
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24085
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraByte ➡️
US consumer laws (or lack of) are not valid around the globe. ToS/EULA does not supersede law.
Out of curiosity, what laws actually say you own the software you purchase?
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24086
Gear Addict
 
UltraByte's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo ➡️
Out of curiosity, what laws actually say you own the software you purchase?
"This decision does not mean only that software developers cannot prevent second hand sales of their software by their European licensees. It means software licence agreements and all their terms and conditions (not just the one prohibiting transfer) can be ignored by European courts if the licence period is indefinite, and probably even if it is tied to the lengthy period of copyright ***in Europe - 70 years after death of last surviving programmer. Such a licence will be regarded as a simple sale and sales of personal property cannot be tagged with conditions on how the property can be used."

ruling
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp120094en.pdf

analysis
https://www.lexology.com/library/det...a-7a8afd8b3380
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24087
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraByte ➡️
"This decision does not mean only that software developers cannot prevent second hand sales of their software by their European licensees. It means software licence agreements and all their terms and conditions (not just the one prohibiting transfer) can be ignored by European courts if the licence period is indefinite, and probably even if it is tied to the lengthy period of copyright ***in Europe - 70 years after death of last surviving programmer. Such a licence will be regarded as a simple sale and sales of personal property cannot be tagged with conditions on how the property can be used."

ruling
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp120094en.pdf

analysis
https://www.lexology.com/library/det...a-7a8afd8b3380
Thanks...... so it looks like to get around this companies just set their "transfer fee" for the license. I could easily see this becoming a problem for European dealers as every software company sets conditions on how the end user can use the software.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24088
Gear Addict
 
UltraByte's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo ➡️
Thanks...... so it looks like to get around this companies just set their "transfer fee" for the license. I could easily see this becoming a problem for European dealers as every software company sets conditions on how the end user can use the software.
some dealers have also special policies in place. example: loopmasters plugins exclude license transfers in their EULA, but plugin boutique which has ties to loopmasters, is AFAIK uk based and sells their plugins will handle loopmaster plugin license transfers for its customers.
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24089
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Rendering glitches at start

Does anyone else have this problem and/or a solution??: When rendering/bouncing tracks with Acquas or Nebulas--if the track has a sharp transient at the very top of the track -- i will always get a glitch in the opening 1/4 second of the bounce/render. i have to add a significant amount of silence at the top of the track to solve this--and then remove that silence afterwards--not ideal at all. Using latest versions of Nebula and various Acquas == Magenta, etc. Any tips?

Macbook Pro 2016 / Mac OS 10.14.6

jake
Old 12th June 2020 | Show parent
  #24090
Lives for gear
 
GreenNeedle's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sounjaerk ➡️
Does anyone else have this problem and/or a solution??: When rendering/bouncing tracks with Acquas or Nebulas--if the track has a sharp transient at the very top of the track -- i will always get a glitch in the opening 1/4 second of the bounce/render. i have to add a significant amount of silence at the top of the track to solve this--and then remove that silence afterwards--not ideal at all. Using latest versions of Nebula and various Acquas == Magenta, etc. Any tips?

Macbook Pro 2016 / Mac OS 10.14.6

jake
I get that with the plug in alliance version of Black Box. No idea why.
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