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Why Does TechDirt Hate Musicians?
Old 13th April 2012
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Why Does TechDirt Hate Musicians?

A Perspective On The Complexities Of Copyright And Creativity From A Victim Of Infringement | Techdirt

Wow, Just Wow... how incredibly insulting.

The Tech Dirt “Case Study” on artist Erin McKeown’s bout with copyright infringement of one of her songs results in an internet bully pile on that defies any rationality.

These comments are so offensive I don’t even know what to say. This is what Tech Dirt and it’s followers think of artists. If there was any previous doubt about what the true agenda of these people is, this pretty much spells it out.

###

Anonymous Coward, Apr 12th, 2012 @ 4:09pm

Stop the lawsuit now and get to work.

Today I had to get up and go to work to earn my money. I worked back in 2003 also, but nobody is paying me for that work today. Why should they pay you?

Did you contact everyone who inspired your song? Who you copied from? No? So why should you expect them to contact you? All creations are fundamentally derivative; yours is not special.

If a "copy" of your song really is a huge hit and you can't figure out how to monetize that, whose fault is it? Go start working out a tour in Slovakia and wherever else your song and its "copies" are popular. Sell some merch while you're at it. You have a huge opportunity to capitalize, but instead you're conspiring with bloodsucking lawyers to stifle someone else's creativity. The only ones who will win that battle are the lawyers. Your lawsuit is hostile to the very people who might someday pay you: your fans. If they're fans of a "copy," surely they will also be big fans of the original.

You have a secondary advantage many artists do not: you can claim to have been wronged by a big corporation (even though their "copying" of your song is actually huge free publicity). As anyone here at Techdirt can tell you, controversy and righteous indignation can be used to drive sales in a big way. That makes buying an Erin McKeown shirt more than just a fan's purchase: they are now supporting a "cause!"

Don't waste this potential! Get planning!

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Anonymous Coward, Apr 12th, 2012 @ 4:18pm

really? you have copyright on the use of weather as metaphor for happiness in a song?

I guess it's all sunshine and roses for you from here on out, because you can just spend the rest of your life suing anyone who uses weather related idioms in a published work.

One of the reasons copyright law is such a mess is that people tend to overgeneralize similarities to the point where they are meaningless.

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Anonymous Coward, Apr 12th, 2012 @ 4:35pm


Nope. There is no such thing as "free riding." That's a concept invented by IP maximalists to justify their restriction of other people's natural rights. By even using the term you implicitly support their cause.

I can barely bear to look at this article's title. Infringement "victim?" There is NO victim here, except perhaps the targets of the stated (and frivolous) lawsuit who are victims of attempted censorship.

What was taken from the supposed "victim" here? Nothing. A new song was created. CREATED. Huge potential publicity was created FOR FREE.

Restore sanity. Abolish copyright!

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Anonymous Coward, Apr 12th, 2012 @ 6:11pm

I can understand the IP maximalists at least, but this "shades of gray" crap really smacks of appeasement.

This community can usually be counted on to hold the line, but as soon as some girl shows up with a guitar AND A CADRE OF LAWYERS, it's all "oh well consider everyone's feelings" and "shades of gray." Is that hypocrisy or just selling out?

If you are trying to stifle the creativity of people because they succeeded where you failed, if you are suing them or enabling such a lawsuit, or if you are denying the public the maximum benefit of its collective creative output, I think you might need to consider the possibility that you are simply a bad person.

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Old 13th April 2012
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Sort of misogynistic too.

Techdirt certainly does hate musicians. Maybe some unfulfilled ambition there?
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Sort of misogynistic too.

Techdirt certainly does hate musicians. Maybe some unfulfilled ambition there?
I think that's an understatement. But to go so far as to say to an artist whose work has been infringed in a major way, "you are simply a bad person." and the only thing prompting that response is hiring a lawyer to seek justice from those who have done wrong... again, wow, just wow.

I can't imagine there's a person on this forum, even those who don't have a problem with online piracy would certainly have a problem with one of theirs songs being appropriated for a national beer commercial without consent or compensation.
Old 13th April 2012
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All those quotes are from one loony who is commenting, not TechDirt.
Old 13th April 2012
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I was talking about Techdirt as a site. The atmosphere at the site. The guy who lauds over it (Mike Masnick), the people who are attracted to the site and usually comment on the blogs.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
All those quotes are from one loony who is commenting, not TechDirt.
that's not true, "anonymous coward" is assigned to anyone who posts anonymously, which is more than one person... and, if you follow the link you can see the depth of the hate in the comments by many more people.

would you be ok with this situation if it happen to you?

this is what these people want... is this the world you want for artists? no rights? no compensation? no recourse? nothing? Ever.

this is true colors stuff here. this isn't about piracy or the riaa, this is about destroying copyright and artists rights to the benefit of the tech and internet industries profit, is that OK with you?

Really? Seriously?
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Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
I was talking about Techdirt as a site. The atmosphere at the site. The guy who lauds over it (Mike Masnick), the people who are attracted to the site and usually comment on the blogs.
Would you think it's fair to say that the atmosphere here on Gearslutz, the guy who "lauds" [sic] over it (Jules), and the people attracted to the site that usually comment are all biased against, say, Google, Apple, or the amorphous "tech industry"?

If not, why not?

Here's one very recent example I recall clearly from an exchange I had with you. I could find countless more quotes of "tech" bashing with biased and inaccurate assumptions and conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
There's a huge range of even bigger corporations benefitting from illegal downloading. They have you confused and looking the wrong way.
Who are these corporations bigger than those of the recording industry or motion picture industry (I use these as a metric taken from the context of the discussion; if the metric you're using is different, then do clarify) that benefit from illegal downloading?

I know you'll include Google, of course -- which is highly debatable itself -- but what other corporations of similarly large scale would you name?
Google of course.... then.....
Apple.
The most profitable, influential company in America. Highly powerful around the globe.
You really need me to tell you this?
If Techdirt "hates musicians," then does Gearslutz "hate tech?" No, I don't think either accusation is true; this is a dumb troll topic designed to stir up arguments.

Edit: I want to add that the actual story in the topic article is an interesting one and worth discussing, but the framing of the original post in this thread as focusing on the linked comments is detestable.
Old 13th April 2012
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Wow. Proper Idiocracy rants. The idjut gene is winning......
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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yeah people are often assigned and refered by a whole team of social media people. They use powerful social media management tools like Radian6. There's loads of information on these tools out there. once you see what their strategists
talk about it's not too hard to work out just how efficient sales groups can manage their interests and agendas.

They talk openly about it.

used extensively by fortune 500 companies and non profit orgs.



Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️
Edit: I want to add that the actual story in the topic article is an interesting one and worth discussing, but the framing of the original post in this thread as focusing on the linked comments is detestable.
it IS an interesting story, and one that should earn SUPPORT not hate. have you read the comments? one writes "you are simply a bad person" just because the artist wants to seek compensation for her work being infringed.

Do you think that's OK? Again, have you read those comments? Absolutely insulting no matter how you frame it.

They HATE musicians. They don't believe any artist should ever have the ability to make money from their work EVER unless they are doing it in real time.

This is moving BACKWARDS not FORWARDS. Internet and tech companies need to innovate beyond the old model of illegally exploiting artists work as the basis for their unimaginative models and create fair and ethical businesses... or face the inevitable consequences.
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Old 13th April 2012
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As I amended to indicate in my previous post in this thread, the actual linked article is a worthwhile one -- so now having read it and listened to the two pieces, my estimation would be that this is not a successfully actionable case of infringement.

I think it's totally plausible that the second song was influenced or inspired by the first, but I have a hard time seeing how it's anything but an original work on its own. I would be disappointed if Sony were to settle (not that I have reason to suspect that they would).

Copyright is not protection for ideas. It's protection for the expression of ideas. There are similar ideas between the two pieces, but the expression is significantly different enough that I don't think her case has merit.

Edit to add response to previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear ➡️
have you read the comments? one writes "you are simply a bad person" just because the artist wants to seek compensation for her work being infringed.
...
They HATE musicians. They don't believe any artist should ever have the ability to make money from their work EVER unless they are doing it in real time.
I did not read far into the comments. It's honestly just irrelevant to me -- why should any of us be in the business of critiquing another online community? I don't think it's right to say "they" hate musicians. In the limited number of comments on the article that I read, I did see support for her feeling, if not for her actual legal action. Maybe the tone changes dramatically later on, but it's of absolutely no significance to me; one can find despicable remarks anywhere online, if one looks closely enough.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️
As I amended to indict in my previous post in this thread, the actual linked article is a worthwhile one -- so now having read it and listened to the two pieces, my estimation would be that this is not a successfully actionable case of infringement.

I think it's totally plausible that the second song was influenced or inspired by the first, but I have a hard time seeing how it's anything but an original work on its own. I would be disappointed if Sony were to settle (not that I have reason to suspect that they would).

Copyright is not protection for ideas. It's protection for the expression of ideas. There are similar ideas between the two pieces, but the expression is significantly different enough that I don't think her case has merit.
that may be the case, and I suppose we'll see what the courts say - but there's still no excusing the amount of hate being directed at her... the real story of that article is how she is being treated by the readers of tech dirt, the story itself is now secondary given the light of seeing just how intent these people are on destroying all artists rights.

Erin McKeown clearly does not deserve the hostility directed at her.

These are the same people who viciously attacked Lilly Allen for speaking out.

Thuggery, wow, that's innovative...
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Mike Masnick. never heard of him so I took a listen to his Narative.

He seems to have a set of Clichés which already sound as old as the hills
and does a good line in supporting Artists. But he has a problem.
Because the more Artists start to figure out that the Anti record industry rhetoric
is sounding more and more like a smokescreen to cover up the real protagonists in this game,
the more desperate and paradoxical his possition becomes.

Behold the almost completely empty Narative in the last 10 seconds.

PressPausePlay - Mike Masnick Interview
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear ➡️
that may be the case, and I suppose we'll see what the courts say - but there's still no excusing the amount of hate being directed at her... the real story of that article is how she is being treated by the readers of tech dirt, the story itself is now secondary given the light of seeing just how intent these people are on destroying all artists rights.

Erin McKeown clearly does not deserve the hostility directed at her.

These are the same people who viciously attacked Lilly Allen for speaking out.

Thuggery, wow, that's innovative...
Ya that is pretty bad, though I do beg to question as I myself have used weather for metaphors in my own songs. I do not think she has a case in that department. You cannot copyright a metaphor, its like a title. You could possibly trademark it if you used it in commerce. Like say on a printed t shirt for example.

I do think she is going a little far in that department, and her case may not have merit. So many song writers have used weather for a metaphor that if she won she would be collecting from quite possibly over half the songs ever written including some classic standards.


Now the anger being lodged at her from the online community does seem to be completely ridiculous. Though then again a lot of the modern young are completely ridiculous in a lot of their assumptions. LOL
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear ➡️
that's not true, "anonymous coward" is assigned to anyone who posts anonymously, which is more than one person... and, if you follow the link you can see the depth of the hate in the comments by many more people.

would you be ok with this situation if it happen to you?

this is what these people want... is this the world you want for artists? no rights? no compensation? no recourse? nothing? Ever.

this is true colors stuff here. this isn't about piracy or the riaa, this is about destroying copyright and artists rights to the benefit of the tech and internet industries profit, is that OK with you?

Really? Seriously?
You are very similar to them.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️

I did not read far into the comments. It's honestly just irrelevant to me -- why should any of us be in the business of critiquing another online community? I don't think it's right to say "they" hate musicians. In the limited number of comments on the article that I read, I did see support for her feeling, if not for her actual legal action. Maybe the tone changes dramatically later on, but it's of absolutely no significance to me; one can find despicable remarks anywhere online, if one looks closely enough.
True.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
You are very similar to them.
I support the artists right to protection of their work, fair compensation, required consent prior to exploitation, and an ethical internet.

So what do you support and believe?
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpro ➡️
Now the anger being lodged at her from the online community does seem to be completely ridiculous. Though then again a lot of the modern young are completely ridiculous in a lot of their assumptions. LOL
sad but true.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️
Would you think it's fair to say that the atmosphere here on Gearslutz, the guy who "lauds" [sic] over it (Jules), and the people attracted to the site that usually comment are all biased against, say, Google, Apple, or the amorphous "tech industry"?
.
Yes, in a debate about musicians vs tech I'm biased against 'tech'. It would be ridiculous and wrong to suggest I 'hate tech'.
I've never posted anything so biased and so vitriolic against tech companies here at Gearslutz that remotely resembles the anti musician posts in that Techdirt comments section. Again, it would be wrong and ridiculous to claim that I have.
I'm happy for tech to make money legally. I enjoy using Apple products, Google etc/ I just disagree with some of their culture and business practices.
Normal debate as far as I'm concerned, not personalized vitriol.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld ➡️

I think it's totally plausible that the second song was influenced or inspired by the first, but I have a hard time seeing how it's anything but an original work on its own.
The funny things the people attacking Erin contradict themselves.
One says she has no case because nothing is unique in music anymore and her song is certainly not unique. A couple of comments later someone repeats your argument, that the second song is unique enough to be different.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
You are very similar to them.
I honestly don't think he is.
The aggression level is way up the scale. I'm surprised you can't see that, but ultimately not surprised you are taking this tack as you can see no positives in the protection of artists argument, and can see no wrong in the piracy/free music arguments.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear ➡️
yeah, because I support the artists right to protection of their work, fair compensation, required consent prior to exploitation, and an ethical internet.

I'd say you are more like them, so what do you support and believe?
See, that's what's funny. I do support artists. I do support their right to get paid. But you and your gang are so contentious you come off like obnoxious forum bullies just like on that Tech Dirt page, and you make this forum ultimately useless.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
I honestly don't think he is.
The aggression level is way up the scale. I'm surprised you can't see that, but ultimately not surprised you are taking this tack as you can see no positives in the protection of artists argument, and can see no wrong in the piracy/free music arguments.
The way you guys all love to tell people what they think is another example.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
See that's what's funny. I do support artists. I do support their right to get paid.
you have a funny way of showing it.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
The way you guys all love to tell people what they think is another example.
I'm asking questions to find out what other people think... of course, on the other hand, I do think the abuse Erin is taking is completely disrespectful, but you may think differently, which is your choice. You should just be honest about it if that's how you feel.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
But you and your gang are so contentious you come off like obnoxious forum bullies just like on that Tech Dirt page, and you make this forum ultimately useless.
Make it more useful by not commenting on the 'gangs' but on the actual subjects being discussed.
Do you think the majority of views expressed in the commentary on Erin are justified?
If not, where do you draw the line?
If yes, why?
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Make it more useful by not commenting on the 'gangs' but on the actual subjects being discussed.
Do you think the majority of views expressed in the commentary on Erin are justified?
No, but I don't think the way you guys behave is justified. It's ironic that respect is a concern of yours.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
The funny things the people attacking Erin contradict themselves.
One says she has no case because nothing is unique in music anymore and her song is certainly not unique. A couple of comments later someone repeats your argument, that the second song is unique enough to be different.
The same people contradict themselves in the way you describe? Or different people on the same site have different opinions from each other?

I doubt that Techdirt's community is a hivemind, and as such I'd think it would be the latter case, right? One person thinks that nothing's unique anymore; another thinks the piece is different enough to be substantively unique. That doesn't seem at all preposterous or self-contradictory to me.

If someone judged Gearslutz' community in the way you're judging Techdirt's, they'd think it insane how the forum community swears beyond a shadow of a doubt that it can hear a difference between Pro Tools and Cubase render mix summing, but at the same time contradicts itself with mathematical null-tests. It's really just different people thinking different things.
Old 13th April 2012
  #29
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I'm not comparing Techdirt to Gearslutz. Of course there are abusive posters on both forums.
You seem to be missing the point Rack Gear was making, and i agree with. It isn't one forum is good, another is bad.
Or even one person is good and another is bad. We're just commenting on the crowd effect at Techdirt that seems to aggressively swarm when a musician sticks their head above the parapet.
I mean if you are confident with your views, and feel your views have the upper hand in society, you don't need to personally attack someone.

I must say I prefer Jules and Whitecat to Mike Masnick. I don't hate Masnick. I don't think his opinion should be barred from the conversation. he's welcome to it. i strongly disagree with his opinion and the outlook of his Techdirt site.
When comparing myself to the commentators on this blog in question....
I don't dismiss women's views, I don't hate anyone, I don't hate tech companies, everyone is welcome to tell their story. So no, I don't think I can be compared to the posters below Erin's blog.
Old 13th April 2012 | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk ➡️
No, but I don't think the way you guys behave is justified. It's ironic that respect is a concern of yours.
You're commenting on us again.
I asked....
Quote:
If not, where do you draw the line?

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