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dbfs or dbfs+3???
Old 25th November 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 
studioleorec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
dbfs or dbfs+3???

Hi everybody.
I was searching whole forum for explanation, but couldn't find anything.
The question: if I want to get RMS -12 dbfs what should I consider as a correct algorithm in Voxengo SPAN, for example? It show me -12 with dbfs and -9 with dbfs+3 settings. Cubase show -12 but Wavelab show -9. TT Dynamic Range Meter also claim it is -9. As I remember Adobe audition also measure the loudness in two different ways (sin and square wave). Also in RME digicheck there is an option to choose +3. When someone is talking about -12 dbfs RMS what does he mean? SPAN has a preset Stereo Mastering and by default dbfs setting is coming which show me RMS -12, but K-12 algorithm show +3. As I understand to get 0 with K-12 I have to lower loudness for 3 db. Then it will mean that my RMS will be -12 dbfs. But in mastering preset it will be -15. I am very confused.
Shortly: which RMS everybody talking about?

Thanks in advance
Leo
Old 25th November 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
There's no way of knowing that. These 2 standards are equally widespread.
Old 25th November 2014
  #3
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Leq(m)- LUFS - SLk - RMS - MLk - SLk - LU EBU+9+18+27 - LKFS ATSC/ITUR
CREST - DBabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

can we go back to VU please
Old 25th November 2014
  #4
Gear Nut
 
studioleorec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks AUDIOBOMBER, spasibo Alexey.
Still not clear. Any other explanations?
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Verified Member
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studioleorec ➑️
Still not clear. Any other explanations?
I don't pay much attention to either for level in mastering,
but there's a 3dB offset between the AES17 edition and the standard/traditional (whatever you want to call it) edition.

Confusing
6 of one, half dozen of the other...

The AES17-1998 standard is calibrated using a sine wave peaking at 0dBFS (Square would be +3dBfs). The non or possibly more traditional meters are calibrated using a square wave peaking at 0dBFS (sine would be -3dBfs).

As long as you'd want to use either as a measure, just pick one ...and know there's a 3dB difference between the two.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Nut
 
studioleorec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering ➑️
I don't pay much attention to either for level in mastering,
but there's a 3dB offset between the AES17 edition and the standard/traditional (whatever you want to call it) edition.

Confusing
6 of one, half dozen of the other...

The AES17-1998 standard is calibrated using a sine wave peaking at 0dBFS (Square would be +3dBfs). The non or possibly more traditional meters are calibrated using a square wave peaking at 0dBFS (sine would be -3dBfs).

As long as you'd want to use either as a measure, just pick one ...and know there's a 3dB difference between the two.
Thank you, Tom. This is what I usually do. But since there is a client asking for exact RMS I wanna know what to concider. If he/she ask -10, it can vary from -13 to -7.
Since there are two standards, it will be confusing situation all the time. Not for me, but for my understanding of client's request. I think better to ask them for crest factor they want , this one is always the same.

Thanks for input guys.
Leo
Old 26th November 2014
  #7
Old 26th November 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 10 years
This article just labels one standard as correct and the other one as incorrect... which is incorrect, imho.
Old 26th November 2014
  #9
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stinkyfingers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
easy...just ask the client. if you need to meet spec, they will give you the spec.
if they are just pulling numbers out their ass because they're ignorant, **** em...
Old 26th November 2014
  #10
Gear Addict
 
karibu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ask the client why he needs that requirement, is it because he needs do be compliant with something (???) or just because he thinks "-12 is a good loudness point"? If it's the case I would explain him that simply matching an RMS (regardless of what standard you're referring to) doesn't mean reaching the desired loudness...
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