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STC-8
Old 28th February 2014
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
STC-8

Dear Slutz!

I have couple of questions regarding my newly purchased STC-8



- Can you explain to me the difference in four VAR modes in all 4 quadrants? They are not the same right? I can hear the difference in sound when switching between them. I understand that in all 4 VAR modes the the Attack,Rel and Shape are working but whats the difference? I am not talking about presets, only about VAR mode ( where attack rel and shape are active).

- Is it possible to find the custom made side chain cable with the 3 position switch for example with lets say 60hz,120hz ( or other freq suggested from your side) and no hi pass so one doesn't have to use the hardware EQ unit for the side chain?

- Where can I find in detail description of the jumper modification for the threshold with photos maybe ?

Thank you very much
Old 28th February 2014
  #2
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Variable (V) modes in the various quadrants:

Upper left quadrant = Semi auto release with manual attack

Lower left quadrant = Semi auto release with attack modification

Upper right quadrant = Manual release with attack modification

Lower right quadrant = Manual release and manual attack

The semi automatic release basically works by slowing the release down when there's less gain reduction, which sounds much like opto compression. Very useful to avoid breathing, and when performing heavy parallel compression. It's only "semi" because the manual release setting is still active and sets the target, unlike a full auto release.

When you use any attack modification setting, I quote verbatim from the manual:

"When a slower attack time (3 or higher) is selected on the compressor, any signal triggering the peak limiter automatically shortens the attack time of the compressor. This gives the STC-8 the ability to average program when employing long attack times while still maintaining overload protection. More notably, the compressor will quickly control the audio after a period of silence."

Couldn't say it better myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
- Is it possible to find the custom made side chain cable with the 3 position switch for example with lets say 60hz,120hz ( or other freq suggested from your side) and no hi pass so one doesn't have to use the hardware EQ unit for the side chain?
It wouldn't be a cable then. You need a selectable filter at the end of the cable.


Quote:
- Where can I find in detail description of the jumper modification for the threshold with photos maybe ?

Thank you very much
It can probably be found by searching a bit in Google, but I'm sure [email protected] can help.
Old 28th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt ➡️
Variable (V) modes in the various quadrants:

Upper left quadrant = Semi auto release with manual attack

Lower left quadrant = Semi auto release with attack modification

Upper right quadrant = Manual release with attack modification

Lower right quadrant = Manual release and manual attack

The semi automatic release basically works by slowing the release down when there's less gain reduction, which sounds much like opto compression. Very useful to avoid breathing, and when performing heavy parallel compression. It's only "semi" because the manual release setting is still active and sets the target, unlike a full auto release.

When you use any attack modification setting, I quote verbatim from the manual:

"When a slower attack time (3 or higher) is selected on the compressor, any signal triggering the peak limiter automatically shortens the attack time of the compressor. This gives the STC-8 the ability to average program when employing long attack times while still maintaining overload protection. More notably, the compressor will quickly control the audio after a period of silence."

Couldn't say it better myself.


It wouldn't be a cable then. You need a selectable filter at the end of the cable.



It can probably be found by searching a bit in Google, but I'm sure [email protected] can help.
Thank you very much.

Unfortunately I got nothing from the crane songs tech support ... They told me to check the manual for the trashhold modification( which of course I did before) but there is not a single word about it in the manual. I heard about it on this forum... Strange....

You are talking about the scenario with peak limiter which I dont use. So are you saying that without the peak limiter Upper right quadrant = Manual release with attack modification is same as Lower right quadrant? Because it doesnt sound same to me...
Old 3rd March 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
So far the lower right quadrant is the cleanest to my ears. Upper right sounds very interesting too...
Old 8th March 2014
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Very interesting comp. Although it sounds really great it kind of sucks the heart and the soul out of music already at 1 or 2 db GR... Anybody else has the same experience?
Old 8th March 2014
  #6
Gear Nut
 
sir hills's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
First, I would say the STC-8 as a piece of equipment is not inherently "sucking the heart & soul out of music". I've experienced this as well...but not just with the STC-8...compression in general can do this. In my experience, it is dependent upon the source material & then how you're using compression. Typically, when I'm using the STC-8 for mastering I'm rarely hitting more than -1 to -2bs of GR if the material needs compressing. Many times I just use the STC-8 for gain staging before or after an analog eq. I like the sound of the unit, it can give a subtle "sheen" even without actually compressing...sometimes it works, sometimes not. Again, it depends on the source material...mostly I work with odd rock, folk & avant jazz (not much EDM/pop style stuff). I have some artists/engineers who submit well mixed pieces with good use of compression at the track & mix level - for those, I'm less likely to use much, if any compression & will rely more on eq & gain staging. If I get a mix in that's super dynamic or not using much compression I'll see if compression helps it. The STC-8 is a DEEP box...it took me a while to figure out some favorite/go to schemes. With some material you can get away with an insane amount of compression, others not so much. It's got a crazy amount of flexibility & options...it's all how you apply it.
Old 9th March 2014
  #7
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
For a bit of easy overall control and levelling try these settings as a starting point:

Preset: Variable Auto Release (Upper left quadrant)
Attack: 7.5
Release 2
Shape: 7.5
Mode: Hara (EDIT: Ki for a brighter sound, but only at higher levels of gain reduction)
Threshold: Set until you get about 2 to 2.5 dB of gain reduction
Peak limiting: None
Gain make-up: 2 - 2.5 dB

Using the variable auto release allows you to set a very fast release without breathing and intermodulation distortion, since the release time becomes non-linear in a very useful fashion. Much like an opto comp where the release slows down when there's less gain reduction. At higher levels of gain reduction the release is quite fast which allows for some movement and dynamics. Depending on the material you can even go to a release setting of 1.5 when the variable auto release is engaged.

An attack time above 7 tends to let most transients through, but is fast enough to grab the tails. The STC-8 will work perfectly fine with the slowest attack (10) which means you can make it react more to e.g. sustained vocals or overall level rather than drums for example. At lower settings it will become increasingly grabby, which is useful when you want to reduce the impact of certain instruments, e.g. drums.

A high shape setting means that the compressor isn't working too deep into the material (depending on the threshold of course), but reacts to and controls the higher level signals more. Naturally the opposite can be desired, in which case you can lower the shape towards 1. This will make the compressor react constantly to the overall signal, which is not necessarily desirable with some genres of music such as EDM, but can be very useful with other material.

The Shape knob is a combined knee and ratio function. At low to medium gain reduction, which is what you normally have in a mastering situation, it's almost fully level compensated. This is handy because you can change the transfer curve without worrying too much about the level change.

The STC-8 is a very versatile and deep compressor that can do a lot of different things. It takes months to get to know it well. In fact, I've had it for many years and I still discover new combinations or uses for it in my setup by experimenting.
Old 9th March 2014 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt ➡️
For a bit of easy overall control and levelling try these settings as a starting point:

Preset: Variable Auto Release (Upper left quadrant)
Attack: 7.5
Release 2
Shape: 7.5
Mode: Hara (Ki for a brighter sound, but it will also change the perception of the overall compression)
Threshold: Set until you get about 2 to 2.5 dB of gain reduction
Peak limiting: None
Gain make-up: 2 - 2.5 dB

Using the variable auto release allows you to set a very fast release without breathing and intermodulation distortion, since the release time becomes non- Smilies
linear in a very useful fashion. Much like an opto comp where the release slows down when there's less gain reduction. At higher levels of gain reduction the release is quite fast which allows for some movement and dynamics. Depending on the material you can even go to a release setting of 1.5 when the variable auto release is engaged.

An attack time above 7 tends to let most transients through, but is fast enough to grab the tails. The STC-8 will work perfectly fine with the slowest attack (10) which means you can make it react more to e.g. sustained vocals or overall level rather than drums for example. At lower settings it will become increasingly grabby, which is useful when you want to reduce the impact of certain instruments, e.g. drums.

A high shape setting means that the compressor isn't working too deep into the material (depending on the threshold of course), but reacts to and controls the higher level signals more. Naturally the opposite can be desired, in which case you can lower the shape towards 1. This will make the compressor react constantly to the overall signal, which is not necessarily desirable with some genres of music such as EDM, but can be very useful with other material.

The Shape knob is a combined knee and ratio function. At low to medium gain reduction, which is what you normally have in a mastering situation, it's almost fully level compensated. This is handy because you can change the transfer curve without worrying too much about the level change.

The STC-8 is a very versatile and deep compressor that can do a lot of different things. It takes months to get to know it well. In fact, I've had it for many years and I still discover new combinations or uses for it in my setup by experimenting.
This is exactly my starting point but in lower right quadrant, no A mod or Auto rel. I never do more than 1 or max 2 db in higher peaks on any comp on the mix buss. All this in hara mode.
I always try ki mode to hear how it sounds. You say ki for brighter sound? I remember from the manual that the ki mode is darker sounding, if I remember correct....

Its hard to explain but there is some wooliness that I dont like about this unit. Its cloudy sounding and reminds of some avalon gear like 2055 EQ or 747 comp which I dont really like. This cloudy thing sounds great in first couple of weeks and then it starts getting on your nerves.

Its not clean unit btw as everyone is saying. It has a strong coloration actually. It is certainly more colored than my TC phoenix and doesn't have as near the same depth,dimension,weight and clarity as phoenix...

It is a deep unit in functions that`s for sure. But no matter what you do with this knobs, sound of the unit stays the same in every setting. Its always same sounding in all 4 quadrants to my ears. What is changing is the action of compression which is really cool.
The stc-8 is very complicated unit with a lot of compression options but it doesn´t have the heart and the soul.... Sounds to cold and too intelligent. And its not transparent at all...
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
I always try ki mode to hear how it sounds. You say ki for brighter sound? I remember from the manual that the ki mode is darker sounding, if I remember correct....
Let me rephrase that (which I think I did mention earlier): the KI mode will sound increasingly bright as gain reduction increases. Try doing 20 dB of GR and compare between KI and Hara.

Quote:
it kind of sucks the heart and the soul out of music
Did you buy it second-hand? Since most units, including mine, don't seem to have this soul sucking ability, perhaps your unit is possessed. You should see a qualified exorcist about that.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt ➡️

Did you buy it second-hand? Since most units, including mine, don't seem to have this soul sucking ability, perhaps your unit is possessed. You should see a qualified exorcist about that.
OK now I get it. Well I do hear some strange voices all the time while using it in Hara mode... something like: "send me back, send me back, get the real piece of hardware" ... The voices are gone when I use it in lower right quadrant with attack 8 and slower....
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt ➡️
I've had it for many years and I still discover new combinations or uses for it in my setup by experimenting.
I've had mine for several years and I'm still learning. Thanks Lagerfeldt for some really nice details.



Quote:
...it doesn´t have the heart and the soul.... Sounds to cold and too intelligent.
I disagree. I love the way it sounds. You can barely touch it or you can hit it hard - it's a great tracking compressor too.

Mychal
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakly ➡️
I've had mine for several years and I'm still learning. Thanks Lagerfeldt for some really nice details.




I disagree. I love the way it sounds. You can barely touch it or you can hit it hard - it's a great tracking compressor too.

Mychal
I will work with it for a while and see if I get to like it more.

My main concern is that its robbing the low end. With acoustic instruments and low double bass thats a real problem. The bass sounds controled but like a sponge bob... It makes strong, low and huge double bass sounds like synth bass line for milli vanilli.... I strongly hope the side chain cable with a eq to filter out some low end will help this issue.If not, this puppy is going back in a second actually milli second.

This might be the ticket for some 90`s Pop stuff but not for acoustic instruments and bands and orchestras with huge low end ...
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
karumba's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
My main concern is that its robbing the low end. With acoustic instruments and low double bass thats a real problem. The bass sounds controled but like a sponge bob... It makes strong, low and huge double bass sounds like synth bass line for milli vanilli.... I strongly hope the side chain cable with a eq to filter out some low end will help this issue.If not, this puppy is going back in a second actually milli second.
i'm using the stc8 quite often with filtered sidecain. if it is too grabby on drums but you would not like to lower the attack time (which shortens the transients), a low cut filter in the sidechain helps to find the sweet spot.

i found KI is darker (a bit like tape) than hara with GRs typical for mastering (1-3dB).
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
dhiltonlittle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"This might be the ticket for some 90`s Pop stuff but not for acoustic instruments and bands and orchestras with huge low end ...[/QUOTE]"

Seems to have worked well on all of the acoustic instruments on the latest Allison Krauss record. Shipley tracked pretty much everything through an STC8. I love mine. It does take some time to get the hang of it.
Old 10th March 2014
  #15
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Well...

The STC has a clean compression as advertised and thats great . But.... The signal path is very colored . First of all you have to turn off the unit in order to hear the real bypass, which is well, not so great. And when you do that and switch back again... Surprise!!... there is this sound like clouds and fog overtaking your audio .... Three things come to my mind when I try to explain the coloration of the STC-8 audio path: Sonnox Inflator, Apooge soft limit and Avalon .... Not my cup of tea definitely....
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
The signal path is very colored...there is this sound like clouds and fog overtaking your audio....
Are you sure your STC8 is working correctly? That doesn't sound anything like mine.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakly ➡️
Are you sure your STC8 is working correctly? That doesn't sound anything like mine.
Yes, its in perfect condition and works great.

I talked to couple other guys about this, STC users, and they confirmed the same thing.

Its actually not easy to hear this because you have to actually TURN OFF your STC in order to really hear it in true baypass ( no signal path electronics in). When you turn off the comp but the unit is still ON the signal path is still active and you will have no idea if its doing something to your audio. So the only way to hear this is to turn off the unit and wait for couple of seconds and listen, then turn it on again and wait for another second or two until the signal path is active again and make A/B test. You can also record the audio with STC on and off, this is easier to A/B test the things

If your monitoring is good and your ears are trained you will hear it right away. It gives kind of euphoric and wanna be hip color which is actually just a colored signal path. Its making low mids thicker and wider and also doing something with the highs.... This color might be the ticket for some things ( soft pop,elevator jazz,TV commercials or some LA fusion, celine dion )) but I personally dont like having it by default on my buss for what I am doing.

The compression is indeed invisible,unique and good sounding.
Old 10th March 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 
gregor z's Avatar
 
Verified Member
🎧 15 years
Well...send it back then... It seems its not your cup of tea.

I love mine, and its on every master I do. If not compressing , it is on for its color and gain make up. Never heard the issues you are describing as problematic and I think I have a decent speakers and I trained my ears a bit in last 20 years.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor z ➡️
Well...send it back then... It seems its not your cup of tea.

I love mine, and its on every master I do. If not compressing , it is on for its color and gain make up. Never heard the issues you are describing as problematic and I think I have a decent speakers and I trained my ears a bit in last 20 years.
I will keep it for another week or so to see If I can make myself like this color and loss of detail in otherwise great unit... I really wanted to like and keep this thing....
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor z ➡️
Well...send it back then...It seems its not your cup of tea.
Agreed.


Quote:
Its making low mids thicker and wider and also doing something with the highs....
Yes, there are subtle changes. Everything you put a signal through is going to change the audio. But I like the changes - it sounds like you don't.


Quote:
This color might be the ticket for some things ( soft pop,elevator jazz,TV commercials or some LA fusion...
Haha. Right. And tape only works with 70s R&B. Grab a different compressor - no need to try and trash a musical tool that gets a lot of respect, and is used on many recordings in a lot of different ways.

Mychal
Old 11th March 2014
  #21
Lives for gear
 
finetuner's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
After some private messaging with the O.P. on the STC in general and the sidechain I built for it, I thought I'd share my thoughts here as well.
I think I understand what he means in terms of a coloration that's not always desired. I won't describe things as strong like sucking the life out or anything though.

Anyway, here's my 2 cents on why I sold my STC:

First I was looking for a second analog comp, something different than the STC.
After trying some options I discovered that while I thought I was looking for a more 'vibey' sound, that was not really what I needed.
Then I wrote to a colleague in Finland (Mika Jussila at Finnvox studios) who's work I respect for the difficult metal genre. 'Busy' music, dense mixes I had to deal with from time to time.
He recommended the Fairman TSC, an optical compressor with tube makeup amp (not to be mistaken with the TMC).

I found one and for a while I had it next to the STC-8 in the rack.
Yet, time after time I choose for the Fairman. A few times both in series, but mostly just the TSC.
Even after several months when the new-ness was gone, I still found the TSC nicer and I noticed that it was even cleaner than the STC-8, which already has a reputation of being clean.

So just like Studerian, I started to doubt the transparency of the STC.
In comparing (also with my Weiss DS1 compressor) I noticed that the STC makes the sound slightly dark, wooly. Not as clean as it's reputation. Something I started to suspect for a while already.

Finally I removed the STC from the rack, keeping it aside as a spare, occasionally plugging it in again to give it the benefit of the doubt. To no avail...
So after happily using it for about 7 years, by chance I found something that suited me better and sold the STC.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #22
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Verified Member
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
Its actually not easy to hear this because you have to actually TURN OFF your STC in order to really hear it in true baypass ( no signal path electronics in). When you turn off the comp but the unit is still ON the signal path is still active and you will have no idea if its doing something to your audio. So the only way to hear this is to turn off the unit and wait for couple of seconds and listen, then turn it on again and wait for another second or two until the signal path is active again and make A/B test. You can also record the audio with STC on and off, this is easier to A/B test the things
Most mastering engineers have some kind of patch device or routing matrix that allows for bypassing gear. I use the Dangerous Music Liaison.
Old 11th March 2014
  #23
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Hey, thanks Peter for chiming in! Peter was very generous in helping me about the SC of the STC-8!

Mychal, I was,of course, just making jokes about this, I didn`t want to insult anybody...

I am kind of disappointed with Crane Song advertising this unit as clean and transparent which it isn´t. There is an obvious loss of detail and coloration/cloudiness in the signal path. You may not hear it or you may like it. You may find it essential to this unit or great and usefull but the fact is it´s there and its not subtle,clean or transparent. Many units out there which has a reputation of being vibey and colored have actually less color in the signal path than the STC-8. That was my point.

Well I guess this one is going bye bye.

Thanks everybody for helping
Old 11th March 2014
  #24
Lives for gear
 
finetuner's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
One more thing though, two actually:

Before dumping the STC-8, you may want to make sure your not using the peak limiter or have it barely working. This feature is found hardly useful for mastering or at least to be dealt with very delicately to steer one of the auto modes.

Further, if you really think it's that bad, I wondered if there could be an impedance mismatch? But then most likely a level difference between neutral and hard bypass would have raised a red flag.

Just thinking out loud...
Old 11th March 2014
  #25
Lives for gear
 
mastermat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have my stc8/m now for several years and can not confirm that you get a dark sound out of it IF used in the right way. it is not a box that will work for you without getting it to know pretty well and it has a steep lerning curve. also it´s very important not to drive the stc 8 too hot on the input as it reacts pretty strong already on low threshold levels. also I can 100% recomend to use it with it´s sidechain functionality! since I use it with sidechain it´s nearly like using a new compressor. it took me some time to find out which settings are best for different sources, but now I can say for sure it´s a very versatile and incredible and transparent sounding compressor when set rightly according to the source. before I decided to keep it I did many tests and ABed alongside other compressors. I´m glad I own one and use it every day!
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuner ➡️
One more thing though, two actually:

Before dumping the STC-8, you may want to make sure your not using the peak limiter or have it barely working. This feature is found hardly useful for mastering or at least to be dealt with very delicately to steer one of the auto modes.

Further, if you really think it's that bad, I wondered if there could be an impedance mismatch? But then most likely a level difference between neutral and hard bypass would have raised a red flag.

Just thinking out loud...
I was checking the peak limiter and it can sound nice for 1 or 2db limiting. No, of course I am aware of the limiter being on or off.

It doesnt sound bad or broken, so I dont think its impedance. I can hear the color of the signal path and this color is magic on some mixes, but its one of ten when its appropriate for me...

Everything is fine with the unit, its mint. I even like the compressors action very much, limiter can be useful too when you set it right. I dont have any trouble to make it work great for 1 or 2 db GR. It is very flexible etc... But this color is killing my mixes, the clarity and depth and has this plug in character which I really dont like...
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermat ➡️
I have my stc8/m now for several years and can not confirm that you get a dark sound out of it IF used in the right way. it is not a box that will work for you without getting it to know pretty well and it has a steep lerning curve. also it´s very important not to drive the stc 8 too hot on the input as it reacts pretty strong already on low threshold levels. also I can 100% recomend to use it with it´s sidechain functionality! since I use it with sidechain it´s nearly like using a new compressor. it took me some time to find out which settings are best for different sources, but now I can say for sure it´s a very versatile and incredible and transparent sounding compressor when set rightly according to the source. before I decided to keep it I did many tests and ABed alongside other compressors. I´m glad I own one and use it every day!
Are you saying that when not driving it to hot on the input, the signal path sounds cleaner ( with compressor NOT engaged)??
This is hard for me to believe this unit has no transformers...
Old 11th March 2014
  #28
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
mastermat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studerian ➡️
Are you saying that when not driving it to hot on the input, the signal path sounds cleaner ( with compressor NOT engaged)??
This is hard for me to believe this unit has no transformers...
no. I say it is best if you drive the input not too hot with just a very little bit of sidechained compression going on (no limitting) and with the right settings (mostly in hara mode) according to the source then it sounds nice and 3d! I sometimes use it in m/s with good results.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermat ➡️
no. I say it is best if you drive the input not too hot with just a very little bit of sidechained compression going on (no limitting) and with the right settings (mostly in hara mode) according to the source then it sounds nice and 3d! I sometimes use it in m/s with good results.
Thanks,thats exactly how I use it.
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