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Which is the right LEVEL?
Old 26th February 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Which is the right LEVEL?

I have a double Chandler Germanium Compressor.
I know: it is not biuld for mastering but i like it...
So i would like try like an insert pre - limiter.
Which is the right level of the signal for go outside from my DAW?
The canonical -18dbfs?
I ask that because if i go out from my rosetta 800 at -18dbfs (0dbVU?) i see the GR meter don't move in my chandler... I can up the threshold at the maximum level but i see only a 1 db of GR...
I know that is right for the mastering (only few db...) but i would like send the right quantity of signal for optimize the interna signal...
Let me know how i can do.. and thank you in advance...
Old 26th February 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
sat159p1's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Peaks that hit at -18dB, that is pretty quiet recording.

If its too quiet for Chandler, bring it up, in analog or digital, before Chandler. AFAIK Rosetta has CODA "Learn" thing which will, let's say, standarize the I/O levels.
Old 26th February 2014
  #3
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Greg Reierson's Avatar
 
Verified Member
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Forget about peak readings. They are almost completely meaningless in mixing. Think RMS levels - averages. If you have a VU meter, calibrate it so a -20dBFS sine wave hits 0VU on the VU meter. Then mix so the needle is dancing around 0VU. That will give you plenty of level and plenty of headroom. That's the level you should send to your analog chain. Sending a hot level (like a CD that has an RMS of -10) may push your analog electronics too hard. OTOH, sending something that PEAKS at -18dBFS (the RMS value will be much lower) will hit the analog chain below its sweet spot.

Calibrate your loop DA and AD for unity gain and you'll be in the ballpark.
Old 26th February 2014 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson ➑️
Forget about peak readings. They are almost completely meaningless in mixing. Think RMS levels - averages. If you have a VU meter, calibrate it so a -20dBFS sine wave hits 0VU on the VU meter. Then mix so the needle is dancing around 0VU. That will give you plenty of level and plenty of headroom.

! There's thumbs for ya! lol


Seriously though, this advice reminds me exactly why I dispise "zero" being at the top of the digital metering system, and also why I can't stand peak-based metering either.


Both in and of themselves have driven this "loudness war" at least as much as any other factors(economics, competition, bit-depth, yada-yada..) that have been suggested here and elsewhere.
Old 27th February 2014
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks friends but the Chandler Germanium show only the GR not the IN signal...
However ok for the -18dbfs....

But a last question...
When the ME clip the converter it means at least one hardware is pulled to the maximum that is well over -18dBFS, or not. Maybe at the 2dbfs. In another way the AD converter don't clip...

So is right go out from DAW hot (for example -10dbfs) and start to soft clip the germanium compressor internally and after push the Chandler Germanium OUT for obtain the Rosetta soft clipping.
Let me know and thank you
Old 27th February 2014
  #6
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydpaint2000m ➑️
I have a double Chandler Germanium Compressor.
I know: it is not biuld for mastering but i like it...
So i would like try like an insert pre - limiter.
Which is the right level of the signal for go outside from my DAW?
The canonical -18dbfs?
I ask that because if i go out from my rosetta 800 at -18dbfs (0dbVU?) i see the GR meter don't move in my chandler... I can up the threshold at the maximum level but i see only a 1 db of GR...
I know that is right for the mastering (only few db...) but i would like send the right quantity of signal for optimize the interna signal...
Let me know how i can do.. and thank you in advance...
I have been using a pair of Chandler Germanium Compressors for mastering, daily, since 2009. They excel at the job, in my estimation. I have everything calibrated so that -18dBfs is equal to 0dBVU.

When clients send me files that are already loud, I have to attenuate (usually 6dB) before I hit the converters and Germ Comps (they are the first thing in the analogue chain), otherwise you hit the comps too hard (the input trannies are the first thing in the chain, before the "Input" pot, which is really just a passive attenuator), with too much GR. AFAIK the Chandler (and most analogue stuff) stuff is calibrated to work best at 0dBVU, so you wanna be hitting it around here for the best/cleanest results.

In my case, if the RMS of the client file is around -18dBfs (or my attenuated version), you can easily get the right amount of effect from the Germ Comps. Having said that, I am never pushing over 1.5dB of GR on them, usually lower.

In your case, the fact that you are hitting them here and the meters are not moving at all, seems strange. Is there an internal trimpot on your converters for them to work at different levels?
Old 27th February 2014
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So the INPUT control on the Germanium must be at the top, only in this way i don't attenuate the IN... right? (you write that the INpunt is only a passive attenuator so for bypass i must put on the maximum level, right?)

And this is the first step (thank you for this adive...)


Second Step:
- for overload the rosetta AD what can i do?
- is it right push up the Chandler Germanium OUTput and don't stop since i see the AD converter soft clip?

let me know and thank you...
Old 27th February 2014
  #8
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
My Input control is all the way up 90% of the time, I tend to attenuate the input gain with the DAW before it hits the transfer DAC/analogue chain, if the client's file is too hot.

AFAIK "Bypass" comes first and is just a straight wire I/O when engaged, then there are the input transformers, then the "Input" passive attenuator.

If you want to clip your ADC just play around with the Germ Comp's output section (Gain and Feedback controls) until you get something you like, however I'm not really a fan of clipping converters as it's undoable (imagine your client wants HD versions ten years down the line, for a re-issue, and you only have the clipped versions...)

Hope that was helpful, they are without a doubt my favourite pieces of gear of all time.
Old 27th February 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Floydpaint2000m's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you !!!!!!!
It is so wonderfull share experience...
I give one of my "preset" for mastering:
- GR 0,5
- KIND of compressor: SOFT
- total wet
- attak on the 3
- release fast
- drive 6
- feedback 3-6
Let me know what do you thinking on...
Old 27th February 2014
  #10
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
I wrote extensively about how I use them in this thread here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ompressor.html

Obviously, my working methods have changed a bit over the years since I wrote that, but most of it still applies.

However I'd highly recommend tweaking things (particularly the Attack and Release controls), independently for every single track. There's nothing worse than wrongly set up time constant controls!

And we should go for a beer before I move to Paris!
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